radio_head said:

 

The guarantee of a 14 day return policy that many companies offer.
 

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thewuss said:

i get what you're shooting at, Peter.  and i appreciate the feedback you've been giving on the LCD-3. 

 
i don't worry so much about soundstage size as i worry about the LCD-3's ability to perform consistently.
 
my chief gripe with the LCD-2 (especially rev.1) is what others call resonance, or ringing, or whatever.
it is a nagging issue that my ears hear ocassionally and just can't ignore.
 
what it sounds like, to me, is that the a certain song will be humming along, and the performance will be pretty good, and then BAM there's this sound that jumps out and destroys the illusion.
 
and while all the other sounds seem to emerge from the "soundscape" that the headphone is creating, this one sound will sound like it is eminating from within the ear cup, right next to the ear.  and it's typically a midrange sound, or lower midrange.  and it seems to "flood" or "fill up" my ears.  basically ruining the illusion of the performance.
isn't that what high fidelity listening is all about, the illusion of listening to a performance instead of a headphone?
well, the LCD-2 gets close at times, but there's that issue that spoils it for me...
 
and there are so many head-fiers that never experienced this issue with the LCD-2.
so naturally, i feel that the LCD-3 may have this problem too, but that it won't be reported until someone else with the same "sensitivity" to the issue as myself buys one and "comes clean" about it. 

 
 
 

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innerspace said:

I heard the same thing with the original version, and was very sensitive to it, and posted about it at the time (and got flamed by the fanboys) - but the LCD-3 doesn't suffer from the same problem at all.
 
I think the LCD-3 has other problems, though, and it will never be my go-to phone.  It's too restrained somehow.  Sounds like the band or the orchestra is wrapped in Saran wrap and can't break free.
 

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googleli said:

Someone kindly told me not to bring the 3 when going abroad since the LCD3 is using a protected wood...

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rhythmdevils said:

Based on your description Wuss, I think there is a very good chance you wouldn't hear this at all with the 3 because nothing sticks out like that anymore.
I'll try to write up more thoughts when the 3's come back at the end of the week.
 

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googleli said:

The burn in effect is drastic to my ears. But then since my office rig is new except the Rega which I bought second hand, and so many components all need burn in at the same time, including the ALO Reference 16 cable, the Cavalli Liquid Fire, the vintage 1940's Telefunken CCa tubes, the PS Audio power cord and the Madison Audio Labs e3 extreme 1 flagship interconnects and the LCD3 itself, it is hard to tell the burn in of which component or components is or are taking effect. But suffice to say the rig has improved not only a bit, but actually so significant that I think it has taken the sound to a whole new level, with just about 150 hours of break in with the STS Kharma burn in CD, which is said to be able to speed up the process considerably.
 
Unfortunately the Liquid Fire is a tube amp so I cannot leave it on 24/7 in my office and the burn in is proceeding quite slowly, especially given that I am now having vacation until after Christmas. And this is the first time I start to miss office while having a vacation, although I have brought my portable combo and the LCD2 Rev 1 with me. Someone kindly told me not to bring the 3 when going abroad since the LCD3 is using a protected wood...

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rhythmdevils said:

I heard it more severely than that with the Rev1, I heard it as a glare over everything, not as certain things sticking out occasionally, though that did happen as well. 
 
The LCD-3 unfortunately still has a bit of the reverb but it is a lot better.  I doubt most people would hear it since most people didn't hear anything in the LCD-2 including some really good ears.  I seem to be more sensitive to this than most, it took me about 15 seconds to hear it in the LCD-2 and a few days to really acknowledge that I heard it with the LCD-3 though I had a more subtle perception of it earlier than that.  It's better enough that I could live with it where I could not stand it in the LCD-2- I usually had to take the 2's off after just a song or so and I thought they were defective until I compared to others.  If I owned the LCD-3, it would bother me, but it's to the point that it's tolerable. 
 
Again, I seem to be very sensitive to this- I'm not saying I have better ears than everyone else, there are certain things I am not as good at hearing- I'm just saying that this shouldn't be something to worry about for most people unless it really bothered you in the LCD-2.  Based on your description Wuss, I think there is a very good chance you wouldn't hear this at all with the 3 because nothing sticks out like that anymore. 
 
I'll try to write up more thoughts when the 3's come back at the end of the week. 
 
 

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rhythmdevils said:

I heard it more severely than that with the Rev1, I heard it as a glare over everything, not as certain things sticking out occasionally, though that did happen as well. 
 
The LCD-3 unfortunately still has a bit of the reverb but it is a lot better.  I doubt most people would hear it since most people didn't hear anything in the LCD-2 including some really good ears.  I seem to be more sensitive to this than most, it took me about 15 seconds to hear it in the LCD-2 and a few days to really acknowledge that I heard it with the LCD-3 though I had a more subtle perception of it earlier than that.  It's better enough that I could live with it where I could not stand it in the LCD-2- I usually had to take the 2's off after just a song or so and I thought they were defective until I compared to others.  If I owned the LCD-3, it would bother me, but it's to the point that it's tolerable. 
 
Again, I seem to be very sensitive to this- I'm not saying I have better ears than everyone else, there are certain things I am not as good at hearing- I'm just saying that this shouldn't be something to worry about for most people unless it really bothered you in the LCD-2.  Based on your description Wuss, I think there is a very good chance you wouldn't hear this at all with the 3 because nothing sticks out like that anymore. 
 
I'll try to write up more thoughts when the 3's come back at the end of the week. 
 
 

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sp wild said:

 


 

I'm pretty sure what you are describing is the slight "bloom" in the mids that Tyll termed and I think this term is correct.  I heard it right away as well but it never bothered me to a large degree, I described it as resonance early on and the best cure was to break away some of the seal by pulling the pads as far towards the back of the head as possible.  I certainly could imagine someone being particularly senstive to this narrow band.
 
But its funny how this small imperfection did not distract for me the smoothness of the overall frequency response, resolution and transparency.  Then I am reminded of how anyone could live with the HD800...even with EQing the treble way down, it always had this metallic ringing coloration that put me off in a very bad way.....
 
Played around with Isone Pro HRTF simulations and am starting to lean towards the validity of HRTF again....

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skylab said:

I think it must have to do with either production variances (which would not be a good thing), or that the pads cause the headphones to sit differently enough on different heads that the sound varies notably from head to head.  But these are just hypothesis.  
 
Differing opinion on headphones is hardly new.  But the fact that people who generally agree about the LCD-2 seem to disagree about the LCD-3 is puzzling, I agree.

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mwilson said:

Definitely sample variance. I had two LCD-3 at the same time at one point, and one exhibited the issues reported, the other didn't. They were within 10 hours of use difference from one another.

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skylab said:

I think it must have to do with either production variances (which would not be a good thing), or that the pads cause the headphones to sit differently enough on different heads that the sound varies notably from head to head.  But these are just hypothesis.  
 
Differing opinion on headphones is hardly new.  But the fact that people who generally agree about the LCD-2 seem to disagree about the LCD-3 is puzzling, I agree.

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radio_head said:

Oh my, that could lead to some circular impressions.  "I was angry because they didn't sound good and thus they sounded worse.  This prompted me to get angrier which caused them to sound worse still.  This process continued until about the 300-hour mark, when I took a sedative to calm myself down.  Curiously enough, I found myself loving the sound at that point.  Very mellow and laid back - not to mention I love the highs."

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