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ahzari said:

Are they really the same drivers? i don't think Ultrasone would recycle drivers from their premium line to their midrange line. Thats like the HD800 and HD650 carrying the same drivers..

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Yes they are the same drivers. I know quite well you dislike the Pro 900, but they are far from being midrange, where the likes of HFI-780, Pro 550/650/750 are, the Pro 900 and the Pro 2900 are the highest level cans Ultrasone has below flagship level. But I get what you mean.
 
It's not really that big a surprise, since driver tuning can change the sound dramatically.
 
EDIT: I think an alternate version of the Signature Pro with a similar driver tuning to the Edition 9 would be amazing, and a true competitor to the likes of LCD-2 rev1/2 and even LCD-3.

I don't find sig pro veil or dark at all, in fact I find that the treble energy is way more than I would like at times as compared to LCD-3, LCD -2 hd800. It does tame down a little bit or I will have to return it. Even 100hrs of burning in, the treble energy is stil more than the 3 phones mention above.

However, when comparing to d2000, then sig pro is a shade darker. I find the d2000 high unbearable when it's loud. There is no way to really turn it out loud without the treble spike cutting my ear. The sub bass is less than denon d2000 but d2000 bass is muddy with each notes lump together as one. The sig pro bass is more tighter, higher quality and at times more punchier than d2000.

Here is my simple ranking from hp I have for treble and bass.. Hopes this helps. To my ears...

Treble ranking
1) d2000 marl mod (high treble spike that could lead to fatigue very quickly)
2) signature pro
3) HD800
4) LCD-3
5) LCD-2r2


Bass ranking
1) d2000 (low quality bass.. Good for movies)
2) LCD-3 ( best quality bass I have heard qty and quality.. Superb)
3) sig pro
4) LCD-2.
5) HD 800 ( very good quality bass but lack quantity)


also the s logic works on my type of ears.. they have this 3d sound that seems to create an out of the head experience. The sound surround my head like an invisible big bubble. Absolutely love it. The only annoying thing is the head band that may cause a pressure point. I wish all headbands are like hd650 and hd800 where there is a groove at the top to ease the pressure. Or at least audio technica wing system will be good.

Quote:

roller said:

 
EDIT: I think an alternate version of the Signature Pro with a similar driver tuning to the Edition 9 would be amazing, and a true competitor to the likes of LCD-2 rev1/2 and even LCD-3.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, because from your posts it seems as though you haven't actually listened with the Signature Pro and if you haven't spent time with them, how do you know its not currently a true competitor to the LCD2/LCD3. In my opinion the Sig Pro is easily a competitor to the LCD2 and T1; I actually prefer them to either of those two cans. Even if you are specifically referring to the bass quantity, it's best to try a headphone before passing a judgement on them (seems like a general and valid practice on head-fi). The same reason I still want to try the HD800 even though I've read quite a lot about it lacking in bass quantity (something that is also important to me).
 
 
 

Quote:

ahzari said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, because from your posts it seems as though you haven't actually listened with the Signature Pro and if you haven't spent time with them, how do you know its not currently a true competitor to the LCD2/LCD3. In my opinion the Sig Pro is easily a competitor to the LCD2 and T1; I actually prefer them to either of those two cans. Even if you are specifically referring to the bass quantity, it's best to try a headphone before passing a judgement on them (seems like a general and valid practice on head-fi). The same reason I still want to try the HD800 even though I've read quite a lot about it lacking in bass quantity (something that is also important to me).
 

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I never claimed to have listened to the Signature Pro. And I'm far more concerned over Ultrasone releasing a true replacement for the Pro 900 than a reference set, although I can see the validity of it due to both Edition 8 and Edition 10, especially the latter, being a bit of oddballs.
 
And I've always said from the start on any of my posts regarding bass, that bass quality comes first. I have to add that I have become accustomed to the bass levels of the Pro 900 (by bass levels, I mean bass quantity AND quality, without quality, quantity is worthless), and if the Signature Pro doesn't deliver the same quantity along with the increased quality, then they're not for me. It's that simple.
 
I don't want to touch the HD800 for the same reason I would never buy an AD700, and even the T1 is a bit on the fence.
 
And you're the one saying I passed judgement on the Signature Pro before trying them, so measure your words better in the future.

Quote:

roller said:

 
And you're the one saying I passed judgement on the Signature Pro before trying them, so measure your words better in the future.

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It was an inference based on your comment that I quoted in the previous message. But it really doesn't matter; I don't want to get entangled, I was just noting that any group of people may say one thing, but when you actually experience it for yourself it may be something else.
 
I feel the bass quantity and quality of the Signature Pro surpass the Pro900/2900 (as do the D7000s), to my ears with my equipment the Pro's were never the bass monsters many claimed to be (this comment was also posted on the Pro2900 thread ages ago - so I'm not just making this up now).
 
So like I always say (based on my experiences) each ear is different so its important to give something a try if you want to, even if some reviewers claim the sound to be different than what you are looking for (you never know).
 

Quote:

ahzari said:

It was an inference based on your comment that I quoted in the previous message. But it really doesn't matter; I don't want to get entangled, I was just noting that any group of people may say one thing, but when you actually experience it for yourself it may be something else.
 
I feel the bass quantity and quality of the Signature Pro surpass the Pro900/2900 (as do the D7000s), to my ears with my equipment the Pro's were never the bass monsters many claimed to be (this comment was also posted on the Pro2900 thread ages ago - so I'm not just making this up now).
 
So like I always say (based on my experiences) each ear is different so its important to give something a try if you want to, even if some reviewers claim the sound to be different than what you are looking for (you never know).
 

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Agreed. Personal experience is what matters most when it comes to knowing what one likes the most. And yes, even though a large group of people state that x headphones have y sonic characteristics, one person might differ from that opinion radically.
 
You find the Signature Pro bass to have both better bass quality and quantity than the Pro 900? Now see, that's the first report I've read of that (regarding bass quantity). And I'm one of the few people that do think the top Pro series headphones don't have as much bass as people makes them to have, so I'm definitely intrigued by your opinion.

Quote:

roller said:

 
Agreed. Personal experience is what matters most when it comes to knowing what one likes the most. And yes, even though a large group of people state that x headphones have y sonic characteristics, one person might differ from that opinion radically.
 
You find the Signature Pro bass to have both better bass quality and quantity than the Pro 900? Now see, that's the first report I've read of that (regarding bass quantity). And I'm one of the few people that do think the top Pro series headphones don't have as much bass as people makes them to have, so I'm definitely intrigued by your opinion.

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I was actually writing reviews for my headphones on Amazon.com at the time - wasn't a head-fi'er quite yet. At the time I was driving my Pro900 with Nuforce amps, and i feel those are more neutral than my current Woo Audio tube amps so this may have played a role. The Pro 900 to me had drastically less bass then my D2000s at the time (I A/B tested them with my gf and she agreed - she's always been my test subject), the D2000 had ok bass but to my ears was masked by the screeching treble. Just like I felt the Signature Pro had better quality and quantity bass than the Pro900/2900 (note, I felt like the 2900s had better bass - both quantity and quality than the 900s, and the signature pro to my ears are an upgrade over the 2900); similarly I felt the D7000 had more quality and quantity bass than the D2000. I may just have ears that associate quality and quantity as a sum and thus perceive them in being "greater" i have no idea. 
 
My rankings:
 
Rating the Beyerdynamic T1, Denon D7000, Ultrasone Signature Pro/2900/900, Audeze LCD2 rev2
Macbook Air ALAC files->Peachtree Audio Decco2 via Wireworld Starlight USB ->Woo Audio WA6SE via Blue Jeans interconnects
Furman power conditioner controlling output power and power cords are Wireworld Aurora 5.2.
 
Treble: T1=Signature Pro>D7000>LCD2>Pro2900>Pro900
     -T1 has a smoother and clearer treble response. Denons can be sibilant, LCD2s I felt were veiled and the Pro 900 were overly sibilant
Midrange: T1>Signature Pro=LCD2>Pro 2900> D7000>Pro900
     -T1 has a more up front and layered midrange. Denons more recessed; LCD2 and Signature Pro are on equal playing field here
Bass (quantity): D7000>Signature Pro>Pro2900>LCD2>T1=Pro900
     -D7000s have greater impact and its well controlled with the right amp, T1 had tight strong bass, but Denons went deeper.
Bass (quality): Signature Pro = T1>LCD2>Pro2900=D7000>Pro900
     -To me the SP and T1 shared very high quality bass, LCD2 was just short but very close; I prefer the bass response of the D7000 but quality is similar to the 2900
Musicality: D7000>Signature Pro>LCD2>T1>Pro2900>Pro900
     -Everything as a package, the bass and soundstage really lend a hand in creating a more lush musical experience with the D7000s
Clarity(detail retrieval): T1=Signature Pro>D7000=LCD2>Pro2900=Pro900
     -hear more details with the T1 (slightly)
Resolution/imaging: T1>Signature Pro>D7000>Pro2900>Pro900>LCD2
     -Greater instrument separation with the T1
Soundstage: T1=D7000>LCD2>Pro2900>Signature Pro>Pro900
     -T1 (longer forward and back, but narrower); D7000 (shorter forward and back, but wider)
 
I am absolutely sure many will disagree with the above, but thats ok because it shows just how different I hear things compared to many others in certain areas of audio (and thats really the only point of this scale, to show how I hear things, not to show what headphone is better or worse than another). Also note that this scale has been a work in progress, every once and a while I will add a headphone to this scale, so its a general scale not an exact science, but I am confident about where these headphones place with my ears based on what is written above.
 
 

Don't take this the wrong way, but it seems you have a very particular opinion. While I do respect it, I don't agree with it one bit, especially when it comes to bass measures. Different people enjoy different sonic traits, and there is absolutely no way the T1 has the same bass quantity as the Pro 900, this being both a personal opinion and just about a general opinion as well.
 
But, to each his own.

Quote:

roller said:

But, to each his own.

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+1, exactly, we all have different ears 
 

But at this very day I'm still not sure why should Ultrasone produce limited versions of some of their headphones. I can understand the whole Edition 8 LE being a limited series, but they have 2 other versions of the same headphones being sold regularly. Why couldn't they have done the same for the two Edition versions that have a limited production number and only have a single model for each version? And this doesn't have anything to do with wanting to have harder to find headphones, it's strictly about their signature matching listening preferences that suit some people better than their current offerings. It's just like the assumption that once headphones reach the $1000 mark, there's a rule that forces all manufacturers to go with reference sound. Some people just like "fun" or colored sound, and want to push the envelope further in that regard.
 
/rant

Quote:

roller said:

But at this very day I'm still not sure why should Ultrasone produce limited versions of some of their headphones. I can understand the whole Edition 8 LE being a limited series, but they have 2 other versions of the same headphones being sold regularly. Why couldn't they have done the same for the two Edition versions that have a limited production number and only have a single model for each version? And this doesn't have anything to do with wanting to have harder to find headphones, it's strictly about their signature matching listening preferences that suit some people better than their current offerings. It's just like the assumption that once headphones reach the $1000 mark, there's a rule that forces all manufacturers to go with reference sound. Some people just like "fun" or colored sound, and want to push the envelope further in that regard.
 
/rant

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I always thought this way, but Muppet Face pointed out that there are quite a few colored headphones in the $1000+ range (hopefully MF can chime in here - very knowledgable with headphones), don't know about Ultrasone specifically. Btw have you tried the Sony XB1000 - I wasn't crazy about them either, but they have a very interesting bass response - puts a lot of bass pressure on the ear drums.

Quote:

ahzari said:

I always thought this way, but Muppet Face pointed out that there are quite a few colored headphones in the $1000+ range (hopefully MF can chime in here - very knowledgable with headphones), don't know about Ultrasone specifically. Btw have you tried the Sony XB1000 - I wasn't crazy about them either, but they have a very interesting bass response - puts a lot of bass pressure on the ear drums.

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There are a few, but not nearly as many as I'd like. Also, I'm not so crazy about open headphones, so that limits things further. About the XB1000, I don't find them to have the kind of bass response I'm looking for. But they sure have comfortable pads.

 
Quote:

thisismyname said:

I would say signature pro is a dark HP, while the ED8 is bright, but I won't say it is veiled
and may I know what the source or/and amp is?

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When switching between and comparing the SigPros with the LCD-3, I used my Iphone4 as a source, because I like to do listening with my own music. I used the HP-P1 as a transport to a Violectric V800 DAC hooked onto the Sugden Masterclass HA-4 amplifier.
 
To compare my Ed8 LE's with the SigPro I had both hooked just to the HP-P1, though I did some listening to all 3 headphones using the Sugden.
 
The JVC HA700 is the one IEM that has eluded me all this time!!  I've not seen nor heard them!!
 
I did not really rate the IE8s TBH. Their bass is strong, but towards the upper and mid bass, which I dislike. SigPro's bass gets more power and slam as you head lower down the bass frequencies, which is preferred. But bass? against the LCD-3? As much as I like the SigPros as a whole, the bass itself cannot compare
 
 
S-Logic, is a strange thing. On some days, I do feel a slight..  ever so slight presentation that images just between my eyes outside of the head. But sometimes it doesn't. And this whole soundstage thing, I think its misconstrued. I don't think S-Logic expands or improves staging at all, just moving the stage forward. In my experience however, the S-Logic works nicely with a good crossfeed amp. I've tried them with the SPL Phonitor and they do project a slightly even more realistic stage. Like when listening to a live recording of Aerosmith's Dream On, without crossfeed, I seem to be right in front of Mr Tyler, staring at his boots, whilst with crossfeed and S-Logic, I finally feel like im in the crowd, somewhere near the front row!!  amazing stuff. Crossfeed on the Phonitor did jackall for the HD800 tbh. :S  
 
Lol XB1000. The XB700 which I got for my girlfriend is insane. Even at moderate listening levels, I could feel the pressure on my eardrums caused by the bass. Scary.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Quote:

wilzc said:

 
S-Logic, is a strange thing. On some days, I do feel a slight..  ever so slight presentation that images just between my eyes outside of the head. But sometimes it doesn't.
 
Lol XB1000. The XB700 which I got for my girlfriend is insane. Even at moderate listening levels, I could feel the pressure on my eardrums caused by the bass. Scary.
 

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I feel the same way about the S-Logic, its a hit or miss on the SP..
 
Regarding the XB1000, besides having insanely huge pads and drivers, their "in your face" bass levels aren't actually as strong as the XB500 or 700, but in lower bass frequencies they act like a suction cup with their huge pads and literally give the feeling that the huge drivers are pulling your ear drums inside and outside your ear canal; the feeling actually worried me a bit so I was scared to wear them for too long... and now it seems like the XB1000 line has been discontinued by Sony (don't know the exact reason - maybe poor sales / reviews / cost) but definitely an interesting phone.

@ Roller:
 
I'm curious, have you considered going the route of custom IEMs? I ask because the current trend there seems to be the opposite of what you describe for headphone manufacturers: designers are making their top models the more heavily colored while the lower models are tuned more neutrally. You also mentioned preferring closed headphones, so CIEMs would offer isolation. Assuming you don't mind sticking things in your ears, CIEMs like the JH16Pro, UM Merlin, and Heir 8.A offer more 'fun' sound signatures and are technically as proficient (in some ways even more so) than similarly priced ~$1000 headphones.
 
Just a suggestion to consider.