tdockweiler said:

What I need is a combination of a DT-880 and HD-600

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I would actually like to see something that combines the bass articulation/punch of the DT-880 and the mids/smoothness/detail level of the HD-650.

Yeah I got mine from J&R by calling them. Got them for $329 and I can't even find the HD-600 for that online! I don't use Ebay though. I love using Amazon because they have $3.99 next day air shipping with my prime account and painless returns. My HD-650 was defective when I received it. It had a paint smudge. It was so tiny and annoyed me a bit. Only about a half inch. I returned them today and they give you 30 days. I did think they sounded great, but I wanted something brighter with a more clear sound. I got that with the DT-880, but I'm not going to say it's the better headphone, just that I prefer that type of sound. It has possibly the clearest sound I've heard and up there with my KRK KNS-8400 when it comes to clarity and detail. KNS-8400 almost feels like a portable DT-880 but with less bass!
 
HD-650 has such amazing vocal quality. I loved it for Jpop/Cantopop. Sometimes during Acoustic music the music felt a bit congested like I'm missing so many tiny details that the DT-880 and ATH-AD2000 gave me. It felt like some instruments had too much weight to them and covered up some detail however that's possible. Sometimes I felt the bass changed the rest of the sound too much somehow. I actually felt the HD-650 had more detail and a clearer sound than the HD-600 though. I miss acoustic guitar music on my ATH-AD2000. My DT-880 is closer to that experience than my HD-650. Just doesn't sound right on the HD-650. I imagine it's horrible on the K702, but I don't remember.AD700 with that music sounds about 60% as good as the ATH-AD2000. I only got rid of my AD2000 because it's mids were too forward and my ear touched the drivers.
 
BTW did you get the white screen HD-650? That's what I got and I hated the old version. I can 100% understand why some people would hate the HD-650, DT-880 and K701. I'd be raving about the K702 if it wasn't for it's soundstage screwing things up for me. Most instruments definitely sound more natural on the HD-650 though. Not all of them, but some. I always compared my first K701 to my old HD-600 and because it had a thinner sound I always thought that was such a huge negative, but now I don't. I didn't realize how much I disliked my HD-650 until I compared it to my DJ100 and found that did some things far better and actually sounded more clear in SOME parts of songs. My feeling was that the HD-650 only sounded about 25% better, which is sad. DJ100 sounds like an HD-650, but is much brighter. Sometimes on my DJ100 I can feel bass where it's as if it's coming from outside my headphone. I get that from a few headphones, but it's not as common it seems. I really dislike the bass on the HD-650. I actually prefer the bass on the DT-990. I actually find the bass on the DT-880 quite good.
 
What stinks now for me is that my DT-880 are horribly uncomfortable for me. I'm not sure if it's because I wear glasses or my ears are touching the pads too much. HD-650 sure is comfortable. I have a feeling Sennheiser is going to announce some new headphones soon. I have my fingers crossed.
 
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jeffreyfranz said:

You bought the HD 650 at J&R and they took it back? I bought mine from a highly rated retailer on ebay. I can't stand them and tried to return them after only five days. I was told, in a form-letter type response, "In order to continue to keep our prices low for all, we do not accept returns unless the product is defective." I now have over 150 hours of constant burn-in, both music and pink noise, and to me they still sound muffled and dark. When I switch back to my k701 (you know, the HP that gets so much "hate" here), I hear the detail and clarity I'm missing. Go figure. 

 

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jeffreyfranz said:

You bought the HD 650 at J&R and they took it back? I bought mine from a highly rated retailer on ebay. I can't stand them and tried to return them after only five days. I was told, in a form-letter type response, "In order to continue to keep our prices low for all, we do not accept returns unless the product is defective." I now have over 150 hours of constant burn-in, both music and pink noise, and to me they still sound muffled and dark. When I switch back to my k701 (you know, the HP that gets so much "hate" here), I hear the detail and clarity I'm missing. Go figure. 

 

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There's nothing much to figure. The K701 is much leaner and brighter. If you were to reduce the bass and incease the treble of a 650 you'd hear more detail, but the music wouldn't be more natural. Too many people are hung up on detail, whereas in real life you don't hear that much detail unless you're sitting on the player's or singer's lap. It's not detail per se you should be seeking but a believable, natural balance with low listener fatigue. Half the reason people are bouncing all over the shop in these threads is because they don't know what to listen for, and without knowing that you have zero chance of long-term satisfaction.    
 
 

Well, the more I listen to the HD650s, the more I am enjoying them. I am not one who really believes in a "burn-in" process, so to speak, but I am getting more used to their sound, and I am liking it.
 
Somethings I should note that I like about the HD650s, as compared to the K702s.
 
1. The fit - I find the HD650s to be far more comfortable. Those little leather bumps on the K702s sort of drove me mad after a while, especially with a short haircut. I do not find the HD650s to be too "tight", as some have mentioned, and I have been wearing them for about 3 hours straight now. The padding on the HD650 is well-designed and placed. No complaints from me. Also, the HD650s are very light weight, just like the K702s, which I like.
 
2. Build quality - The HD650s I think will last the test of time better. I never liked the K702s "elastic" fit system. I feared it would stretch over time, or snap. Nor did I like the clear plastic on the headband of the K702s. I know some have mentioned, that their clear plastic K702 tabs have cracked. I find the 650s to be sturdier, with a touch more class, even though that they too are plastic. To me they don't seem to have the overly "plastic" quality of the K702s, if that makes sense. Maybe it is just because the 650s have a glossiness to them.
 
3. Packaging - not a biggy, but the box the Senns comes in is miles ahead of the cardboard carton AKG provides (if that is their top tier model, at least provide a nicer case, then again, that probably keeps their price in the $230-260 mark.)
 
4. Lastly, and most importantly - the sound. I prefer the Senn sound, no doubt about it. I like thick, fat, low end, solid mids, and highs that don't fatigue (no sibilance please!). I also like open headphones because of the more natural soundstage. I liked the soundstage on the K702s, sometimes I couldn't believe its size. On the song, "1,2,3,4" by Feist, the K702s made it seem like I was sitting right in the middle of a nine musician circle and there is guitars and multiple banjos surrounding me. Something I had never noticed before. But on other tracks, I felt like the sound stage was overly grandiose, as if the two musicians were playing in separate rooms. And to me, that was a big flaw. I know many Head-fiers like to have a special set of HPs for each type of genre, but for me, that is just not practical, nor do I want to spend that much money. I find the HD650s offer a good inbetween. They are good all-arounders. I like to play songs on shuffle from my ipod to my D6, and I don't want to keep skipping great tracks because my headphones cannot cooperate.
 
I am sure, some folks will say "the D6 cannot drive the K702s." That is all I ever hear about those headphones though. "...won't drive them properly...not strong enough amp...need a better amp/source..." What a pain!!!! The K702s are the headphone equivalent of Aron Ralston's boulder. Major pain in the ass. I am still wondering how much voltage they need to sound good. The manual says no more that 200mW. What is it really folks, 1V, 2, 3, or more?
 
Regardless. My point is, they are a different flavor, and not my favorite. So I have moved on to the 650s, and couldn't be happier. Listen to the Chemical Brother's - "The Pills Won't Help You Now" or Sebastien Tellier's  - "La Ritournelle." Perfect through the 650s.

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zdkaiser said:

Well, the more I listen to the HD650s, the more I am enjoying them. I am not one who really believes in a "burn-in" process, so to speak, but I am getting more used to their sound, and I am liking it.
 
Somethings I should note that I like about the HD650s, as compared to the K702s.

2. Build quality - The HD650s I think will last the test of time better. I never liked the K702s "elastic" fit system. I feared it would stretch over time, or snap. Nor did I like the clear plastic on the headband of the K702s. I know some have mentioned, that their clear plastic K702 tabs have cracked. I find the 650s to be sturdier, with a touch more class, even though that they too are plastic. To me they don't seem to have the overly "plastic" quality of the K702s, if that makes sense. Maybe it is just because the 650s have a glossiness to them.

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Yeah, I feel like the HD 600/HD 650, while not as fancy, are actually built very sturdy.  I do have problems with the HD 600 grille being too thin and easy to dent (the HD 650 fixed that), but other than the crazy people bending the band way too far until it snaps, it's tough.  Mine has taken more falls and abuse in bags than I wish to admit.
 
In that respect I'd liken them somewhat to Grados - form follows function and results in a quite tough design.
 
Now the Beyerdynamic DT 880 and DT 990....  Well, they're tough on an altogether different level.  Beyers have always been that way, and although I can't really dig their sound, I love the way they're built.  Tough as nails and thick machined aluminum everywhere.

It's nice that you found a pair of headphones that work for you. I cannot abide by the lack of clarity and detail from the 650's, especially compared to the 702's. 

Excellent choice. The HD-650 is one of the best out there.

I was never able to love the K-701, either. Always sounded artificial and plasticky, no matter what I amped it with.

Ok people a few quick things:
 
Both the HD650 and DT880 are more balanced in terms of sound signature than the K701.
The HD650 loses out vs. the K701 and DT880 in detail reproduction.
Although the K701 has a larger sized soundstage, it doesn't image as well as the DT880. Tbh, the DT990 / 600 has a much better, nearly as large soundstage as the K701 yet it images better.

 
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chinesekiwi said:

The HD650 loses out vs. the K701 and DT880 in detail reproduction.

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Ok, go up 6 posts and you'll find a post of mine which I suspect you haven't read yet. Look it over and (seriously) let me know what you think.

I also love my HD650 driven straight from Auzen X-Fi Prelude sound card (the one without dedicated headphone amp). I also tried DT990 and while they a great but their highs are too bright., DT880 on the other hand don't have brightness problem but together with brightness they took details DT990 have. I also tried K702/1 but they require proper dedicated amp to sound properly. I recently attended NYC head-fi meet and tried my HD650 with different setups and they sounded great with all of them except one. I also heard there K701 with two different setups one had dac and solid state amp separately other one had expensive tube amp instead of solid state and only tube amp finally gave me sound i was looking for. I also read in other threads here that people enjoying their K701 with $300 tube amps but for me if buy headphones for $300 dollars and have to spend extra $300 so that they sound properly than it's just waste of money. I can understand when you paying extra to improve already good setup (i for example upgraded to Moon Audio Blue Dragon Version 3 cable for my HD650) but when you have to spend extra to fix something not sounding right then it's not for me