I recently brought a pair of BeyerDynamic DT770 M (80 ohm) to sit a long side my foam modded Sennheiser HD555's. My intensions being to have closed, bassier option for when the music suits. When buying the DT770's in the shop the sales guy demoed the phones by hooking me up to mixing desk and letting fiddle with the knobs as a bassey track played. The DT770's sounded superb with really nice undistorted comfortable bass.
 
Anyway my current and only headphones amp is the Fiio E7 which I am using as a DAC with my PC my main source. I don't expect the E7 to be on par with the mixing desk but the DT770's just don't seem to be the same beast with this setup. Some low's in some tracks seem distorted regardless of volume levels almost as if I was using a cheap pair of headphones. I know the DT770's are better than this so I am presuming it's either the E7's DAC that's the issue or it's amp.
 
I am prepared to keep the E7's as my portable option and get a better desktop headphone amp/DAC but only if it addresses my above issue.
 
So am I on the right track? Is it that the little E7 is not up to the job? If so what do you guys recommend as a better amp and dac solution?
 
My budget tops out around £300 at the very max. Dollars wise I wouldn't bother calculating the exchange rate as you guys over the pond get your equipment cheaper than us over here in rip of britain so £300 works similar to $300.
 

So you have never heard of the FiiO E9?

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croozer said:

So you have never heard of the FiiO E9?

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 Yes I have and I have gave it a lot of consideration but I also read there is no improvement in SQ over the E7 just greater power output and I am not sure it's power that is the cause of my issue.

 
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siejones said:

 
 Yes I have and I have gave it a lot of consideration but I also read there is no improvement in SQ over the E7 just greater power output and I am not sure it's power that is the cause of my issue.

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I haven't received that impression from the reviews I have seen. One of the main advantages, generally speaking, is the headroom provided by the E9 to drive headphones more "effortlessly". Not withstanding too much distortion (which doesn't seem to be the case w/the E9, particularly if you are matching headphones in a similar "quality bracket"), this will reduce/eliminate the distortion as you turn up the volume, provide additional separation of instruments and potentially an increase in size of soundstage - ultimately a tighter overall presentation. Those aspects factor into what ultimately can be chalked up to SQ improvement.
 
From what I have heard, the DT770s are a "bassy" headphone, so with the inherent warmth and potential lack in drive the E7 (from that amp) is providing may be source of the "distortion" you are hearing. For example, I need to keep the volume on my UDAC-2 at a certain point w/my FA-002w (relatively easy to drive), otherwise complex passages get somewhat "distorted" and messy. This is a product of the limitation of the USB powered/minature amplification device I am using. If I keep the volume set at the right level (per song), it sounds relatively tight, punchy and detailed, with decent separation of instruments. I will note that I may have better synergy of components, to begin with, than your setup (not meant offensively.)
 
Ultimately, you may very well have bad synergy between components. I would venture to say that the E9 would (in fact) improve the overall sound quality - reducing distortion, tighter overall sound, etc. The E7 DAC is known to be a solid one (Wolfson 8740.) I can't guarantee you have a bad E7 unit (always a possibility), but from what I am reading, the E7 on it's own has it's limitations and a warm sound signature (somewhat related to the "limited" E5 amp), on it's own. You may not get perfect synergy, but I would be surprised if the E9 didn't fix the "negatives" you are experiencing to a pretty large/noticable extent, at a reasonable price.
 
I just want to note, I haven't heard the E9 specifically, but I am providing opinion based upon past experience with other gear. There may be something else out there that does a better job (particuarly something with a lighter bass presentation), but at the low 100s price bracket, there isn't much else out there (if anything) that competes, based upon the reviews. My only concern is the long term reliability of the Fiio products, for whatever it's worth.
 

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slcanhead said:

 
I haven't received that impression from the reviews I have seen. One of the main advantages, generally speaking, is the headroom provided by the E9 to drive headphones more "effortlessly". Not withstanding too much distortion (which doesn't seem to be the case w/the E9, particularly if you are matching headphones in a similar "quality bracket"), this will reduce/eliminate the distortion as you turn up the volume, provide additional separation of instruments and potentially an increase in size of soundstage - ultimately a tighter overall presentation. Those aspects factor into what ultimately can be chalked up to SQ improvement.
 
 

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 Thank you for such a detailed explanation. I am new to the audiophile scene and it really helps to hear from those with more experiance.
 
To be honest I did consider my problem could be just related to lack of power to drive the DT770's. I can max out the volume of the E7 and I am only just getting into the region of uncomfortably loud and when I preamped my galaxy tab through the E7 I did run out of volume.
 
This is the reason I asked. I didn't want to take the risk buying the E9 only to find it did not solve my issue and the money instead could have gone towards a better amp. If only I could demo one out in a store but in the UK unless you live in London there are no stores I know to (within reasonable distance from where I live) have that stock this kind of equipment.

 
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siejones said:

 Thank you for such a detailed explanation. I am new to the audiophile scene and it really helps to hear from those with more experiance.
 
To be honest I did consider my problem could be just related to lack of power to drive the DT770's. I can max out the volume of the E7 and I am only just getting into the region of uncomfortably loud and when I preamped my galaxy tab through the E7 I did run out of volume.
 
This is the reason I asked. I didn't want to take the risk buying the E9 only to find it did not solve my issue and the money instead could have gone towards a better amp. If only I could demo one out in a store but in the UK unless you live in London there are no stores I know to (within reasonable distance from where I live) have that stock this kind of equipment.

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No problem. 
 
I think for the level of headphones you are dealing with, I wouldn't bother spending too much on the rest of your equipment, unless you plan to upgrade your headphones. There are a few options for a little more money - Schitt Asgard, M-Stage, KICAS to mention a few, if you feel inclined to potentially step up a notch. But, it's hard to say what your cans will make of those amps' abilities. I will say it's hard to discount so many satisfied E7/E9 owners, for it's price bracket. I haven't discounted giving it a shot - for what it's worth.
 
This is somewhat cliche on Head-fi - but true IMO/IME. This whole head-fi (and hi-fi) thing, comes down to a couple of things: synergy between components and the "law of diminishing returns". First, you can have great components that just don't work well together, and others that seem made for each other. Second, you have to generally have to spend (relatively) exponential amounts of additional money to get smaller degrees of improvement, Sometimes those subtle changes can make all the difference to your ear, though. In the end, you just have to take a chance on equipment based upon your research, best judgement, and budget - knowing you can likely sell it and recover some of your investment, if you don't like it.
  
I agree that it makes it difficult that there are a lack of place to demo headphone equip (beyond a few that some of the hi-fi stereo shops carry, like Creek, Musical Fidelity, etc.) Some may suggest meets, which isn't a bad thing. But, I have found a lack of space to quietly listen, which effectively eliminates the ability to get a good "listen" - just a general idea of the sound.
 

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slcanhead said:

 

No problem. 
 
I think for the level of headphones you are dealing with, I wouldn't bother spending too much on the rest of your equipment, unless you plan to upgrade your headphones. There are a few options for a little more money - Schitt Asgard, M-Stage, KICAS to mention a few, if you feel inclined to potentially step up a notch. But, it's hard to say what your cans will make of those amps' abilities. I will say it's hard to discount so many satisfied E7/E9 owners, for it's price bracket. I haven't discounted giving it a shot - for what it's worth.
 

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But that's the balancing act isn't it? Do I make myself future proof just in case....down the road.
 

This is somewhat cliche on Head-fi - but true IMO/IME. This whole head-fi (and hi-fi) thing, comes down to a couple of things: synergy between components and the "law of diminishing returns". First, you can have great components that just don't work well together, and others that seem made for each other. Second, you have to generally have to spend (relatively) exponential amounts of additional money to get smaller degrees of improvement, Sometimes those subtle changes can make all the difference to your ear, though. In the end, you just have to take a chance on equipment based upon your research, best judgement, and budget - knowing you can likely sell it and recover some of your investment, if you don't like it.
  

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Yeah the same is true of most things such as bikes. You get to a point where you can spend silly money for small incrementle changes. I always try to find the point before you tipp over into that territory though .
 

A question that no one has bothered to ask, do you have the EQ on? If so, what have you boosted? Do you have bass boost on the FiiO E7?
 
Edit: The E7 is also rated to handle up to 300ohms, so it should, in theory, power the Dt770 Pro no problem.

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keanex said:

A question that no one has bothered to ask, do you have the EQ on? If so, what have you boosted? Do you have bass boost on the FiiO E7?
 
Edit: The E7 is also rated to handle up to 300ohms, so it should, in theory, power the Dt770 Pro no problem.

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Yes I have used Bass boost on the E7 but I find it just helps to create even worse distortion
 
To give a good example I find the DT770's have no more low end bass than my "Open" HD555's. That surely can't be right!

Do you use an EQ though? If you've added bass through your media players EQ that is more than likely what's causing the distortion.

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keanex said:

Do you use an EQ though? If you've added bass through your media players EQ that is more than likely what's causing the distortion.

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Yes I have toyed alot with the winamp EQ and media player EQ trying to find a good balance. I understand bad EQ could cause distortion in any equipment.
 
Can I just emphasise that the uncomfortable bass distortion is at all volume levels. I am not talking about bass beats which are quick but low's that are constant in tracks that have deep sustained bass. It's almost like an unnatural warble.
 

If you haven't tried yet, try making the EQ flat, at least for the bass. The Dt770 are bassy as it is, there's no need to EQ more in. If that doesn't work, unfortunately it may be an issue with the E7 itself as earlier I read a few threads with similar problems, though I didn't see anyone find a solution.

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keanex said:

If you haven't tried yet, try making the EQ flat, at least for the bass. The Dt770 are bassy as it is, there's no need to EQ more in. If that doesn't work, unfortunately it may be an issue with the E7 itself as earlier I read a few threads with similar problems, though I didn't see anyone find a solution.

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Yeah I have tried flat or turning EQ off completely and apart from sounding awful the sustained deep low's are just nasty on both my DT770's and HD555's . Even so I would expect both these headphones to surivive quite a bit of EQ at lowish volumes.
 
This is what worries me about the E9 which is DAC driven by the E7. If it's the DAC or another problem rather than the just the amp on the E7 I won't have solved anything. 

A benchmark track that serves as a good example to my issue is "Massive Attack - Teardrop".
 
This track just destroy's my phones with my current setup. The bass is just horrible.

I think the problem lies in the fact that you have an E7 - I seriously cannot get a good sound out of mine. You do get what you pay for though