A state of the nation question: given all the praise heaped upon the LCD-2 and HE6 on these forums and elswhere, have we reached the zenith of HP reproduction? Hit the limits of upstream components or music mastering? Left traditional HP dynamic/ES technologies forever in the dust?
 
What is your wish list for the next generation or two of these headphones? What should an LCD-3 or HE7 (or HE12, given the pace of revisions round those parts) sound like? Look or feel or cost like?
 
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Hopefully a device that connects directly via the synapses of the brain, giving us a completely accurate and realistic presentation or simulation of the musical performance or recording, bypassing any physical defects or defects in our hearing or sonic distortions from the listening environment.
But then no one would be able to argue or discuss about the differences in sound quality or synergy of audio equipments anymore.

At best it's a plateau. There will be an LCD-3, an HE-7, other companies will issue new competitive flagship models, new technologies will develop, and what wows us now will be eventually be considered lacking in some regard we aren't currently aware of.
 
At the moment, the challenge facing owners of new-generation orthos is finding amplifiers that are up to the task. The LCD-2 and HE-6 threads are full of people reporting on experimenting with all kinds of hardware to find something that clicks. The amp companies are stepping up their game in response -- Schitt's announcement of the Lyr has made a big splash -- and more will come.
 
For that matter, what astonished us with range and realism a couple decades ago isn't state of the art any more.* And the cost of entry for good quality continues to drop -- An iPod Nano playing lossless files through a respectable pair of IEMs costs about a quarter or a sixth of what a top of the line Sony Walkman and stack of cassettes cost in 1982 (after you adjust for inflation). And the Nano/IEM combination will sound a ton better.
 
Humanity has a knack for finding better ways to do the same things.
 
(*There are a lot of individual components of the past that are considered respectable to this day, some of them even considered bargains for their prices on the used market, but many of them wouldn't necessarily be competitive if they were sold at their inflation-adjusted cost. For example, the Yamaha HP-1 originally sold for $200 in 1976, which is approximately $800 in current dollars, nearly the price of a new LCD-2. And at that, ortho fans usually have to spend time modding the HP-1 to bring it closer to current expectations of audio enthusiasts.)

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orkney said:

What is your wish list for the next generation or two of these headphones? What should an LCD-3 or HE7 (or HE12, given the pace of revisions round those parts) sound like? Look or feel or cost like?

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The neo-orthos can definitely stand to be lighter. They're comfortable and well-balanced, but the weight makes them a lot more fatiguing than lesser headphones. HiFiMan has a variety of lower-cost orthos out now, as well as a just-announced (comparatively) high-efficiency model, but there's still room for somebody to try making portable full-size orthos.
 
The technology could also stand to come down in price. They require high-tolerance manufacture, which is labor-intensive, which means expense, which more or less sandboxes them in the elite product category. If a large company were to decide to launch a line of orthos in a large-scale way -- let's throw Apple out here (setting aside whatever feelings you might have for 'em), since they're in the audio industry and are renowned for their capability to make products with incredibly tight manufacturing tolerances on an immense scale -- maybe high-end orthos could be had for a couple hundred bucks a pop.
 
And that would be the real game-changer; The LCD-2 and HE-6 aren't considered high-end because they're expensive; they're considered high-end because they are competitive with headphones like the T1 and HD800 which cost considerably more. If that level of sound quality was available for $300 rather than $1000, imagine what that would lead to.

The IEMs are the only things breaking new ground. Headphones haven't really gotten better in the last 20ish years.

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atothex said:

The IEMs are the only things breaking new ground. Headphones haven't really gotten better in the last 20ish years.

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Really.. What do you call the audeze and HE6 and the top tier dynamics. The new planars are better than anything I have heard including the Stax stuff.

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atothex said:

The IEMs are the only things breaking new ground. Headphones haven't really gotten better in the last 20ish years.

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Wow!  I can't imagine that's true at all... can you explain why you think this?

Lighter weight but powerful magnet will be developed. Thinner diaphragm using different materials. More efficient. Improved manufacturing, consistency and yield should bring down the cost and hopefully passed on to the consumers. These really depend on demand.
 
What if someone comes up with an active crossover for headphones?

 
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davo50 said:

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atothex said:

The IEMs are the only things breaking new ground. Headphones haven't really gotten better in the last 20ish years.

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Wow!  I can't imagine that's true at all... can you explain why you think this?

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I think, what atothex tried to mention is IEM is something that really new and achieving in the last 20 years.
 
Current state of the art orthos, dynamics, and ES, are evolution of the development. Which mostly are on the build precission and materials (stronger magnets (though pound for pound, 40 years old Alnico can compete with the latest neodyminium)), thinner diapraghm, etc.). But you cannot thorouhly tell that they are something really new. They only improved upon their olders.
 
While IEM, it is something you will never imagine 20 years ago. Such a tiny bud, inserting inside our ear, and then can deliver such a big sound.
 
Imagine like this. If we have a time machine to go back 20 years ago, bringing LCD2, HE6 and JH11/13 (or even just SE530 or the likes). Show them to an audiophile at that time. Which one do you think that will shock him most?
 
So, atothex is not wrong....

His "sin" is... bring this up on the wrong thread (which is about ortho)...

^^^  MP3s and portable DAPs that are flash memory/1.8" hdd based. Without them IEMs would not have developed to what it is today.

Yeah, so the new orthos are likely the best orthos ever. Haven't heard one of those famed YH1000s or whatever, but I'm not sure how relevant they are to the scene these days. The new ones are really nice in the sense that they're quality headphones at a convenient price point.
 
But I'm not gonna claim they're a better deal than old Grados were or say they're technically better than old Sony/Stax. So what's so revolutionary about them? Yeah, they're kinda funky and unique, but hey, did you know K1000s sold for $400 new at one point? =D

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atothex said:

Yeah, so the new orthos are likely the best orthos ever. Haven't heard one of those famed YH1000s or whatever, but I'm not sure how relevant they are to the scene these days. The new ones are really nice in the sense that they're quality headphones at a convenient price point.
 
But I'm not gonna claim they're a better deal than old Grados were or say they're technically better than old Sony/Stax. So what's so revolutionary about them? Yeah, they're kinda funky and unique, but hey, did you know K1000s sold for $400 new at one point? =D

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If they released the K1000 in todays dollars it would be over 1K. Then you need the stat amp which  for a good one set you back some coin. The LCD2 can be played on any amp without needed gob of current and has bass. Theproblem with electrostatic is they are bass soft and I have yet to hear a pair the reproduces bass I would hear live. Both the hE6 and LCD2 stand IMO a class above all others my favorite dynamics are the HD800 and the T1. I have heard the Stax O2 and IMO to my taste was not as good but I may be wrong as I only heard them at a meet and really need to spend time to see if they are better than these two. Price point cant be beat on the two planar

Imo the recording/mastering process needs to improve.  Making clean binaural recordings should imo be the future.   Improving the math behind that, recording techniques ect ect would be a huge improvement even for those who use $5 headphones.
 
Though considering we are a long ways from people actually appreciating a level of sound above that of their so/so MP3 players with overly compressed music on stock IEMS I guess we can only rely on hardware to deal with crappy software.

 
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frank i said:

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atothex said:

Yeah, so the new orthos are likely the best orthos ever. Haven't heard one of those famed YH1000s or whatever, but I'm not sure how relevant they are to the scene these days. The new ones are really nice in the sense that they're quality headphones at a convenient price point.
 
But I'm not gonna claim they're a better deal than old Grados were or say they're technically better than old Sony/Stax. So what's so revolutionary about them? Yeah, they're kinda funky and unique, but hey, did you know K1000s sold for $400 new at one point? =D

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If they released the K1000 in todays dollars it would be over 1K. Then you need the stat amp which  for a good one set you back some coin. The LCD2 can be played on any amp without needed gob of current and has bass. Theproblem with electrostatic is they are bass soft and I have yet to hear a pair the reproduces bass I would hear live. Both the hE6 and LCD2 stand IMO a class above all others my favorite dynamics are the HD800 and the T1. I have heard the Stax O2 and IMO to my taste was not as good but I may be wrong as I only heard them at a meet and really need to spend time to see if they are better than these two. Price point cant be beat on the two planar

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Several things here that I feel the need to address:
 
- You seem to have mixed up K1000 with something else -- perhaps the Beyer ET1000? Not too many people have heard that one; I'm gonna just make a WAG and say you probably haven't.
- I hear you on the Stax bass, but that point is irrelevant to the discussion. Electrostatics are the fastest, most detailed transducers for the money, and the vast majority of them cost much less than the LCD2/HE6. I shouldn't have to say this, but many people on this forum make the weirdest assertions about value. If a product costs less but sounds worse, then one cannot make any declarations about relative value. For instance, if a KSC75 costs less and sounds worse than an HE90, it is neither a better nor worse value. BTW, if you ever get to check out an original Omega, that might change your mind about the bass issue.
- HD800 and T1 are fine and dandy, but they are also irrelevant. I did not mention either of those headphones in any previous posts, so I don't know why you would bring them up.
 
So anyways, I hear there's this thing called a JH-13. People tell me that it sounds great from any source, goes anywhere, doesn't leak sound, and barely needs any power. And it costs less than an HE6! Just a little something to think about...
 
I guess the other threads are gathering more steam, so I'll stop posting here. =)
 
Edit: To be clear, I think the LCD2 is a fine headphone and will likely purchase one someday. If I sound negatively biased, that is completely unintentional.

The K-1000 is a dynamic headphone, usually run off of the speaker taps, but I've seen one run off out of a Pico.  The Pico didn't drive it well, but it did drive it.