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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (8/18/2022: iFi GO Blu Review Added)
Apr 10, 2013 at 1:36 AM Post #12,871 of 48,562
A media player is essentially both things in one too (usually a poor amp but there's still varying degrees and it depends on the headphones etc). A DAC can be a straight stereo DAC (like most USB DAC) but it can also be a processor that does different things to the signal (like a Mixamp, sound card, etc)... Although at that point we're diluting the meaning of the acronym to an extent, I guess technically there's a DAC in those devices plus other DSP functions (digital signal processing).

What would you be using the E17/E09 with, a PC? You don't have to use the optical in, you could just use USB... I believe that's what the USB pass thru on the back of the E09 is for, powering the E17 and/or hooking it up to your computer.
 
Apr 10, 2013 at 1:49 AM Post #12,872 of 48,562
Quote:
impulse said:
A media player is essentially both things in one too (usually a poor amp but there's still varying degrees and it depends on the headphones etc). A DAC can be a straight stereo DAC (like most USB DAC) but it can also be a processor that does different things to the signal (like a Mixamp, sound card, etc)... Although at that point we're diluting the meaning of the acronym to an extent, I guess technically there's a DAC in those devices plus other DSP functions (digital signal processing).

What would you be using the E17/E09 with, a PC? You don't have to use the optical in, you could just use USB... I believe that's what the USB pass thru on the back of the E09 is for, powering the E17 and/or hooking it up to your computer.
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Well, actually the E09K's dock already powers E17, so looks like USB goes to PC as I thought. But does it power E09K rather using power adapter or actually transferring digital audio like my Plantronics headset?
 
Apr 10, 2013 at 1:59 AM Post #12,873 of 48,562
Your Plantronics headset has a USB DAC (like the E17) inside it's dongle or housing somewhere, it isn't bypassing any of what I've described before... That's what often makes USB headset's such a bad value, you're paying for some average to mediocre DAC/amp circuitry in addition to the headphones (and everything's crammed in wherever).

The E09k's USB connection doesn't serve any purpose unless the E17's docked in, when the E17's docked that USB connection (on the E09k) allows the E17 to communicate with the computer as if it were hooked up directly (sans E09k), only it's using the E09k's more powerful amp circuitry instead of the E17's... You still need to power the E09k itself from the wall tho. This isn't rocket science man... :wink:

I've already forgotten where this whole thing started, but if PC gaming (or even console gaming) is your main concern then you don't really need the E17... A cheaper or comparable sound card (Xonar DGX or Creative Titanium HD) will act as a DAC just as well as the E17 (better in some cases) plus it gives you access to virtual surround processing for gaming (Dolby Headphone or CMSS-3D).

There isn't anything inherently inferior about going from the card's line out to the amp's RCA in (I mention it because it seems like a concern to you), at some point the signal is going from digital to analog no matter what. Headphone drivers are a purely analog device... Maybe I'm not doing the best job of explaining all this and I'm just confusing you further and spamming the thread. :p

Anyway, back to the E17, part of it's value is that it's a portable unit... In addition to the DAC you're also paying for the battery inside it, the display and direct access to various EQ functions, multiple inputs, and the portable battery-powered amp. If you don't need any of that then there's better DACs you can pair the E09k with (or even other a amps to consider), regardless of whether you want it primarily for music or gaming (I've forgotten by now).
 
Apr 10, 2013 at 2:42 AM Post #12,874 of 48,562
Quote:
impulse said:
Your Plantronics headset has a USB DAC (like the E17) inside it's dongle or housing somewhere, it isn't bypassing any of what I've described before... That's what often makes USB headset's such a bad value, you're paying for some average to mediocre DAC/amp circuitry in addition to the headphones (and everything's crammed in wherever).

The E09k's USB connection doesn't serve any purpose unless the E17's docked in, when the E17's docked that USB connection (on the E09k) allows the E17 to communicate with the computer as if it were hooked up directly (sans E09k), only it's using the E09k's more powerful amp circuitry instead of the E17's... You still need to power the E09k itself from the wall tho. This isn't rocket science man...
wink.gif


I've already forgotten where this whole thing started, but if PC gaming (or even console gaming) is your main concern then you don't really need the E17... A cheaper or comparable sound card (Xonar DGX or Creative Titanium HD) will act as a DAC just as well as the E17 (better in some cases) plus it gives you access to virtual surround processing for gaming (Dolby Headphone or CMSS-3D).

There isn't anything inherently inferior about going from the card's line out to the amp's RCA in (I mention it because it seems like a concern to you), at some point the signal is going from digital to analog no matter what. Headphone drivers are a purely analog device... Maybe I'm not doing the best job of explaining all this and I'm just confusing you further and spamming the thread.
tongue.gif


Anyway, back to the E17, part of it's value is that it's a portable unit... In addition to the DAC you're also paying for the battery inside it, the display and direct access to various EQ functions, multiple inputs, and the portable battery-powered amp. If you don't need any of that then there's better DACs you can pair the E09k with (or even other a amps to consider), regardless of whether you want it primarily for music or gaming (I've forgotten by now).
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Got it, thanks for the detailed explanation :)
 
Other than gaming I would really love to get some high quality recordings and perhaps buy additional open-back headphones later on. Then I would come back to desktop amp choosing topic.
 
Apr 10, 2013 at 9:40 AM Post #12,875 of 48,562
Quote:
mad lust envy said:
In other news, I think I might start branching out, and ATTEMPT to make some youtube videos. Maybe you guys can help spread the word once I actually get it off and running. Might lead to a future for me.
wink.gif
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Quote:
axelcloris said:
 
Sounds like a fun endeavor. I'd be behind you whole heartedly on it. Willing to help out any way I can with it as well.
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Count me in! :wink:
 
Apr 10, 2013 at 1:14 PM Post #12,878 of 48,562
Heh, what are the odds that this is the inevitable non-limited edition Anniversary-equivalent? No pricing info yet? Either way, at 'least it seems they finally gave up on the headband bumps for good... I kinda like the red/black color scheme, looks like more of an orange-y/bronze highlight actually.
 
Apr 10, 2013 at 1:24 PM Post #12,879 of 48,562
Apr 10, 2013 at 1:46 PM Post #12,880 of 48,562
Quote:
impulse said:
Heh, what are the odds that this is the inevitable non-limited edition Anniversary-equivalent? No pricing info yet? Either way, at 'least it seems they finally gave up on the headband bumps for good... I kinda like the red/black color scheme, looks like more of an orange-y/bronze highlight actually.
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Weird... tried to go to the Annies page on AKG's site and it seems to be gone.  I was hoping to find if perhaps there was something unique to the Annies limited edition nature aside from the color scheme differences.  Google has the page cached though (along with broken image links), but nothing jumped out at me...
 
Apr 10, 2013 at 1:50 PM Post #12,881 of 48,562
Either mic should work, the second one has almost no description whatsoever so I'd just read the reviews for both and go from there... That kinda cheap clip-on can be kinda hit or miss, the manufacturer may replace the capsule at any time and drastically change how it works etc. It kinda ties back into the QC issues Antlion has had w/their Modmic parts suppliers and why they've had such a tough time keeping a stable stock of them.
 
It looks like they'll have some 2.0's in stock within a week or two but after that it seems they're moving on to yet another revision w/another manufactuer (4.0?) to hopefully (finally) get a reliable stream of units they can stock and sell. I feel for them but at 'least they've communicated their issues well and put QC first instead of rushing stuff and selling potentially faulty units. I really want a muting version, hopefully the 4.0 works out for 'em!
 
At this pace I'm gonna have to take out insurance on my 1.0, it's almost an endangered species... 
tongue.gif

 
Apr 10, 2013 at 1:55 PM Post #12,882 of 48,562
Quote:
vader2k said:
 
Weird... tried to go to the Annies page on AKG's site and it seems to be gone.  I was hoping to find if perhaps there was something unique to the Annies limited edition nature aside from the color scheme differences.  Google has the page cached though (along with broken image links), but nothing jumped out at me...
Click to expand...

 
Well, the Anniversary edition had the flat headband, which the new K712 has, and the only other major change was the pads (which is what made the sound warmer and boosted the low end)... I think they made a point of mentioning the new memory foam pads when they announced the Anniversary edition, as well as pointing out they were hand made in Austria etc (were the K702/Q701 ever assembled elsewhere?) just as they did now for the K712. The K712 page says nothing about pads tho, or price.
 
Same thing happened to me when I Googled the Anniversary page btw... There's probably some other way to get to it, they might still be listed on the international site. I think the US site doesn't even list the Q701 either but those have definitely not gone anywhere...
 
Apr 10, 2013 at 2:10 PM Post #12,883 of 48,562
tcgc said:
I thought of getting a Mixamp just because of Dolby Digital 5.1, will I get the same kinda feeling if I'll try to go E17?
Certainly, these amplifier are almost like night and day but still I want that immersive feeling of surround sound.
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Ah. So, THAT's why he was banned. Kinda funny, but kinda what I'd suspected. Read that first post, but keep in mind that most experienced lovers of audio advise that, with high-powered amps, you always plug in headphones after a sec or two of turning on your amp. So really, he made a big stink about nothing, and plays out the "victimized" role from the safety of his blog. I think of him as having two sides... He does provide some nice measurements and designed a decent amp and DAC; on the other side, he doesn't see that trying to convince others that manufacturers are liars, and Jude is part of some conspiracy cover-up, is a different sort of attack on those people. A smart mind with a touch of paranoia.

3x0 said:
Seems to just be subtleties and QOL improvements for that absurd difference.

Harman routinely puts refurbished (full warranty) Q701s at $199 or less buy-it-now on eBay, and I think those are be a steal relatively to the heinous cost of a K702 Annie for what is essentially the same headphone.

But then again, I'm a man to advocate a used pair of HD 580s over HD 600s any day of the week for similar reasons.
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I usually go for the same line of thinking. Maybe you can get a slightly better (some cases just "different") piece of equipment for more money, but I always try to find where the strongest value is at. I think buying an Annie over a Q701 with stock earpads and a $6 headband wrap is more of a stretch than I'd be willing to pay 2x the price for. I love the Q701's, even with stock earpads. So I wouldn't recommend the Annies or something more expensive, but I understand some people will consider my advice and pick something else anyway, and to them I still wish them happiness with their choice.



mad lust envy said:
In other news, I think I might start branching out, and ATTEMPT to make some youtube videos. Maybe you guys can help spread the word once I actually get it off and running. Might lead to a future for me. :wink:
Click to expand...


Sweet man, I'd love to help! But honestly, I think you have more influence than me, heh. Best of luck!
 
Apr 10, 2013 at 2:13 PM Post #12,884 of 48,562
yeah I want a muteable version really, I would just need something to temporarily use while waiting for stock.
 
I don't really know the differences between there versions, theres v2.0 and 3.0 and I guess there working on 4.0
 
would there be another alternative I could look at or any suggestions?
 
Apr 10, 2013 at 2:53 PM Post #12,885 of 48,562
Quote:
impulse said:
 
Well, the Anniversary edition had the flat headband, which the new K712 has, and the only other major change was the pads (which is what made the sound warmer and boosted the low end)... I think they made a point of mentioning the new memory foam pads when they announced the Anniversary edition, as well as pointing out they were hand made in Austria etc (were the K702/Q701 ever assembled elsewhere?) just as they did now for the K712. The K712 page says nothing about pads tho, or price.
 
Same thing happened to me when I Googled the Anniversary page btw... There's probably some other way to get to it, they might still be listed on the international site. I think the US site doesn't even list the Q701 either but those have definitely not gone anywhere...
Click to expand...

 
The pads were actually one of the items I was looking to compare and wondering if perhaps the K712's won't use memory foam like the Annies do.
 
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