burnin ambition said:

  my friend why do you say it makes  fake surround? i can accurately pinpoint where everyone is shooting from on the map, or where everuone is. i can distinquish between front , bacl, left, right, easily. and i mean EASILY. only thing i dont understand is if someone is above or below me. so why do you say astro mixamp doesnt have positional accuracy. and which mixamp would you suggest that combined with pc360, might solve my little problem? thanx

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chicolom said:

   
Burning Ambition, Evshrug's "fake" comment was referring to the prior discussion about Dolby Pro Logic.  He wasn't talking about Dolby Headphone, which is what YOU are talking about.
 
As for height cues, I don't think there's anything you can do about it at the moment as the current surround sound DSPs available for Consoles don't really account for any height cues (somebody correct me if I'm wrong).

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evshrug said:

Yeah, the Astro can make "fake it" surround from a stereo signal, but it's a lotta reverb and no actual positional accuracy. It needs a Dolby Digital live 5.1 surround signal, which until a (yet undisclosed) later date. Hopefully soon right?

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I agree with Ambition in that Dolby Pro Logic does a perfectly acceptable job of creating virtual surround sound for gaming. I have been playing COD: Ghosts on the Xbox One and can pinpoint footsteps with ease, even without the "true" Dolby Headphone. While the real thing probably does a bit of a better job, and I'm still looking forward to that patch releasing, I am pretty content in the meantime with the "fake" sound. As for the height cues, I honestly think that is a problem with the sound itself in COD: Ghosts (if that's the game you were referring to). I had the same exact issues on the Xbox 360 version of Ghosts where I could hear really loud footsteps close to me and I would be looking all over the place for them and it turned out the guy was actually on the floor on top of me. I never experienced height issues this bad in other COD games so I'm thinking it's just Ghosts.
 
Also have some news on the Xbox One chat adapter front. There have been tons of people creating there own adapters by taking apart their stock Xbox One headset adapter (that goes into the controller) and soldering a 2.5mm cable onto it. There is also a more simple method where you just cut the cable of the stock Xbox One headset, strip the wire and twist it together with a 2.5mm cable from your 360 headset (I'm sure we all have tons of old headsets with 2.5mm cables we could use).
 
Here are some detailed instructions I found on the mod: http://www.instructables.com/id/Xbob-360-to-Xbox-One-Headset-DIY-Conversion-Turtle/
 
It's simply a matter of twisting the right color coded wires together. Will be trying this when I have time as I don't really care about the stock Xbox One headset and want to use my Astro Mixamp's chat.
 
Or of course you can wait for MS to release their adapter (which I'm sure is going to be very overpriced). Anyone looking to use their Astros, Trittons etc in the meantime should look into just modding your Xbox One headset's adapter. If you're super lazy, there are even sellers on Ebay taking advantage of this and offering services to mod your adapters and send them back to you.

pervysage said:

  I agree with Ambition in that Dolby Pro Logic does a perfectly acceptable job of creating virtual surround sound for gaming. I have been playing COD: Ghosts on the Xbox One and can pinpoint footsteps with ease, even without the "true" Dolby Headphone.

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I think Ambition was talking about Dolby Headphone on Xbox 360.
 
I haven't had to use Pro logic in a long time, but last time I did it sounded pretty diffuse and unfocused compared to Dolby Headphone.  That's not surprising considering that Dolby Headphone has over twice the channel information to work with (2 channel Vs. 5.1 channel).

chicolom said:

I think Ambition was talking about Dolby Headphone on Xbox 360.

I haven't had to use Pro logic in a long time, but last time I did it sounded pretty diffuse and unfocused compared to Dolby Headphone.  That's not surprising considering that Dolby Headphone has over twice the channel information to work with (2 channel Vs. 5.1 channel).

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Yeah but I'm currently running the Xbox One which is sending a stereo signal to the Astro Mixamp through the optical port. From here I'm assuming the Mixamp is upscaling it to PrologicII (according to the folks at Astro anyway). Still sounds pretty good to me even though it may not be up to par compared to getting an actual DD 5.1 signal from the Xbox One's optical port.

What particularly irritates me about Dolby Pro Logic (II) is that even Dolby Labs doesn't do a great job of clarifying its purpose.
 
As I understand it, DPL(II) is a means of matrixing surround channel information into a two-channel signal by putting the extra channels out-of-phase, among other things. This means the audio signal needs to be mixed into the matrixed Dolby Pro Logic format to begin with, and a plain stereo signal provides zero benefit. A Pro Logic (II) decoder can't decode what isn't there to begin with, after all.
 
Only games on the N64, PS2 and Wii (maybe Dreamcast too) did this, and mostly out of necessity due to lack of S/PDIF output that could support a discrete 5.1 signal like Dolby Digital or DTS, or extra analog output channels like PCs tended to offer. (In the PS2's case, it was because it lacked the performance to encode Dolby Digital on-the-fly like the Xbox could, and thus you'd only get it in cutscenes.) It's difficult for me to pick out one particular standout game to show off Pro Logic II(x), but Metroid Prime would be a good start. (Especially if you can get the Trilogy release.)
 
I don't understand how Microsoft could screw that up with the Xbox One; at least they're trying to make amends, but I wouldn't expect relations with Dolby Labs to be that strained for this to be an issue to begin with. Then again, they already screwed up so much with the Xbox One it's almost beyond comprehension.
 
Still, another thing I need to clarify with this view of DPL's purpose is that Dolby Pro Logic II's real comparison, technology-wise, is Dolby Digital, NOT Dolby Headphone.
 
DH's purpose is to simply mix whatever decoded 5.1/7.1 channel information it gets into a simulated speaker system ideal for headphone listening using binaural/HRTF techniques or something similar. It doesn't matter whether that 5.1/7.1 data stream was originally PCM, Dolby Digital, DTS, or even Dolby Pro Logic II; if it can be broken down into individual channels, Dolby Headphone can work with it.

burnin ambition said:

my friend why do you say it makes  fake surround? i can accurately pinpoint where everyone is shooting from on the map, or where everuone is. i can distinquish between front , bacl, left, right, easily. and i mean EASILY. only thing i dont understand is if someone is above or below me. so why do you say astro mixamp doesnt have positional accuracy. and which mixamp would you suggest that combined with pc360, might solve my little problem? thanx

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Excuse me, little error of replying to another poster but mine showing up right after yours. I edited my other post for clarification. Xbox One, not the 360, doesn't have the right output like you're getting with your 360+Astro. What you describe is what the Astro Mixamp was designed for, and hopefully soon will be as good (or better?) for the Xbox One.

I hope you forgive my delay, as I'm typing on my phone (and watching TV).

About your issue hearing people around you well, but things getting mixed up when they are above or below you. That's how all surround processors for consoles (currently) work. What's happening is the surround is being mixed from a 5.1 channel surround designed for a home theater. If you think of a home theater, there's 5 speakers (and a subwoofer), so only 5 directions. And no speakers above or below you. So, consoles can only put out 2 dimensional directions, because they are limited in scope by being designed around 5.1 processing.

I'm sure you agree, this is lame, because few people can afford or have the space for a 5.1 speaker setup, yet everyone can get headphones. With two channels right on top of your two ears, it IS possible (and more practical) to calculate what something above you would sound like by the time it reaches your ears. Several PC games have taken advantage of this thinking, but as consoles dominated the market these past few years less game developers have bothered making 3D surround games that can take advantage of PC processing and headphones.

The good news is, apparently, the PS4 has adopted AMD's new processing called TrueAudio. I posted a demo of it on my "journal" thread linked in my signature. TrueAudio is an easy to implement feature for game developers, and it is available on a few of AMD's newest graphics cards AND the PS4 console. With a hopefully popular console (sold out real bad in my area) equipped with the capability, hopefully many more games take advantage of this treat and distinguishing feature. It sounds REALLY GOOD in the Lichdom demo posted in my journal thread, and is just what you were looking for.

pervysage,
That was very clever of you. No, soldering is not that hard, but most people would be too intimidated to try. Somebody showed me a great video about soldering wires together, but I think I lost the link. Thanks for inspiring others!

evshrug said:

pervysage,
That was very clever of you. No, soldering is not that hard, but most people would be too intimidated to try. Somebody showed me a great video about soldering wires together, but I think I lost the link. Thanks for inspiring others!

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Here's another link I found that describes the mod:
 
http://kotaku.com/modder-solders-his-own-xbox-one-headset-adapter-1470785121
 

 

thank you all for your answers and clarifications. cheers guys

burnin ambition said:

  hello. 2 years ago, with the help of this thread, i purchased the astro mixamp 5.8 tx alongside sennheiser pc360, so that i can soundwhore like a god in call of duty, in xbox 360.
well i am very satisfied. i can pinpoint where everyone is, very very accurately.
the reason i made this post, is that i cannot understand where someone is, if he is above or below me. i can understand all other directions, apart from above and below.
is this a limitation of the headset? a limitation of the mixamp? or both?
and if one of these has a limitation, can someone tell me some alternate to them?
when i purchased the mixamp, it was the best in the market... from what i read today, it still is. or am i wrong? thank youso much
 
ps1. from what i have searched there isnt afirmware upgrade for my mixamp right?
thank you

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No, it is a limitation of the current technology. It cannot simulate sounds coming from above or bellow yet.
There is Dolby Headphone X which seems promising and should eliminate these issues, hopefully :]

Thats because Dolby Headphone and other virtual surround techs are simulating a speaker setup in a room. Are horizontal speaker positions. As good as DH is for me, it's definitely missing that layer of positional accuracy. Like in Ghosts, I can clearly hear enemies around me, but because the game is so vertical (maps like Flooded and Chasm which have mutiple levels), I can't tell if they're on the same floor as me. I find myself constantly turning to a direction, only to see that they're not there. Kind of frustrating. With the older CoDs, levels were mostly on a single plane...

Guys do you think the headphone prices would drop on black friday, I am not american so I have no clue tbh.

Dolby atmos is coming to headphones soon!

I am really excited about the future of surround sound headphone technology. I realize positioning can be better on a speaker system but it doesnt seem to immerse me in the world.
Turtle Beach has a DTS-X headphone out now but it is mac only which seems like a strange step to take. Put the word out and gamers would be emptying their wallets for it.  
 
Those of you playing BF4 what audio setting are you playing in. I have it on hifi, found wartapes to sound really tinny, but I don't know if it is just conquest mode, it seems most times that there is so much going on that I get really confused in which direction a sound is coming from. Single player is a lot less audio frantic i can do a better job of picking sounds but still seems off.

mad lust envy said:

Like in Ghosts, I can clearly hear enemies around me, but because the game is so vertical (maps like Flooded and Chasm which have mutiple levels), I can't tell if they're on the same floor as me. I find myself constantly turning to a direction, only to see that they're not there. Kind of frustrating. With the older CoDs, levels were mostly on a single plane...

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Yeah this is massively frustrating and even leads to twitchy teamkills (or actually suicides; I only play hardcore where ricochet friendly-fire is the only mode available). Moreover I can't seem to find good settings in my SBZ's SBX Pro Studio, the bass is always very unnatural and there's a definite lack of sense of space in the sound. i might go back to X-fi Titanium... Unless someone has good suggestions as to how to set the SBXPS. Using MMX-300 as the headset.

Thanks for the link showing Xbox One DIY chat adapter, I may have to do that for my son this weekend. BTW regarding getting "true" 5.1 Dolby Headphone surround until they update when the Dolby licensing is worked out, I went through an excersise with his setup to get this working. What I did since the MixAmps we have don't support DTS is go back to my old Pioneer wireless Dolby Headphone system (transmitter with IR to wireless headphones.) The Pioneer, like the original JVC HD mixer, accepts both DTS or DD signals. So DTS out optical to the Pioneer transmitter, then I plugged in the wired headset (Beyer MMX300) to the wired headphone jack on the Pioneer transmitter. The wired output has its own volume knob too, and also carries the Dolby Headphone processing... 
 
I also have a few adapter boxes (monoprice, etc..) that supposedly take HDMI signal and split it out to HDMI pass-thru video and optical audio. I know they support several formats on the optical but not sure if DTS is one of them, I will have to check. I think that's a less preferred method since it may introduce some lag having the video pass thru another device too, but we'll see and I'll report back. Of course an older Marantz receiver with Dolby Headphone would also work great. I use a SR5005 in my main room; BTW the "-05" series is the last Marantz that used Dolby Headphone, it seems to work from all sources (7.1 LPCM from a PS3, for example, or DTS...), and this model also is HDMI 1.4a and 3D capable. 
 
One question- my son plays a lot of Ghosts and BF4 on the Xbox One. Not sure if there are in-game audio settings in Ghosts? If so, what is preferred? I know there are in-game choices in BF4, so same question: do you guys like War Tapes, Hi-Fi, Home Theater, etc..for BF4 with Dolby Headphone?