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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (5/31/2015: Beyer COP+ and Shure 1540 added) - Page 838

post #12556 of 31226

Hi, I've just bought Sennheiser RS 220 and I need help regarding to optical input.

 

I'm using PC with Asus Xonar D2X soundcard. First I connect the analog cable and the RS 220 sound just fine.

 

Then I connect using optical cable from the soundcard but the RS 220 wont work. The output is from SPDIF Out (using adapter), and the input is RS 220's Optical In. I've set the soundcard to SPDIF output and RS 220 to optical feed, but still no sound. Weird thing is when I connect the optical cable, using exact setting, to my Logitech Z5500D speaker its working fine.

 

Where I had done wrong? Is it because my soundcard have no native optical output? Unfortunately I have no other rig with optical output to test with.

 

Thx.

post #12557 of 31226
Hey all

I have the Tritton AX 720's and I think it's time for an upgrade (besides the fact they're falling apart heh). I read Mad Lust Envy's guide and decided to pick up the Koss KSC75's (for all around usage), to save up for the Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO's, and get the a antlion or that $3 mic listed in the guide. I know those aren't the creme of the crop headphones but I'm sure I'll catch upgrade-itis eventually.

My problem now is I'm having trouble deciding if I can/should use the decoder from the AX 720's and get a sound card for my PC or should I get something like the FiiO E17 USB DAC headphone amplifier so I could use it on my consoles and PC interchangeably.

Any help is appreciated.
post #12558 of 31226

Glacial,

I don't know enough about the RS 220... but I'm thinking that you are sending a 5.1 DDL signal to your headphones, and the headphones only understand stereo input. You probably ought to connect the RS 220 to the analogue output of your sound card with the headphone surround processing enabled, or see if the card can process the virtual surround (into 2 channels for your headphones) and then pipe out the 2 channel processed signal to the headphones.

 

DocNinja,

Nothing wrong with starting with a more moderate buy than going all-out before you even know which direction "out" is. The brave little Koss is a great place to start. The thing about the E17, it's two components in one - an amp, and a DAC. You can use the amp on both sources, but you can't use the DAC for surround with a console. The E17 also wouldn't do surround processing for your PC either, it's a stereo-input device. If you want surround, you'll need: surround input ---> stereo output (with virtual surround baked in). That's what your AX720's base station does.

post #12559 of 31226
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

If only OpenAL remained the standard for PC games...EFX effects that work with any audio device instead of just EAX, and the choice to use either the hardware OpenAL renderer with proper X-Fi cards or a capable software one like Rapture3D that works regardless of what audio device you have. Microsoft can't kill it off, either, since it's OS-independent.

But alas, that's not how it turned out...nowadays, you'd be lucky to find a game that even supports OpenAL, and even out of those, some titles like Amnesia: The Dark Descent and Borderlands 2 don't exactly make it straightforward to enable.

As you know by now, I do place a bit more emphasis on classic PC gaming than most people...

<...snip...>

In the end, though, that makes for two selling points that only apply to older PC games, and one more that's highly YMMV.

Finally, the one selling point most of the rival cards have over the X-Fi Titanium HD-that FiiO E9-esque headphone amp IC-just happens to be the one that's completely and utterly pointless to anyone running Stax or other electrostatics. Still didn't sound bad at all with the HE-400 connected to the headphone-out, proper headphone amp circuit or not, but perhaps orthodynamics are more tolerant of higher output impedances in general.

Yeah, AFAIK orthos have a completely flat impedance curve that shouldn't interact with a high output impedance... (only relatively high in the STX's case, not like it's an OTL) I think I read somewhere the amp component on the E9/STX started out life as part of hardware used on DSL lines? Heh...

I'm into retro gaming, I just don't have the time or dedication to build rigs exclusively for it... If it hasn't been re-released on Steam or I can't get it working on Virtualbox I give up. frown.gif At least I've gotten some of the old school Lucasart adventure games working. biggrin.gif I'm jealous of the rigs you've got going tho! I'm petty sure I've got an old Diamond Monster 3D card gathering dust somewhere, can't remember if it was the original one or the MX300 tho. Is that thing of any use to ya? tongue.gif

Hell I'm petty sure I have an AWE32 too but my 486 has to be absolutely buried in storage, dunno why I even kept it there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

Correct, Creatives new cards use SBX Pro Studio instead of CMSS-3D. Direct3D may be gone, but that isn't the only option for providing 3D positional data for sound, and new games still use OpenAL, FMOD, and other ones I'm learning about. Dolby Headphone will always be limited to 2D "circle of speakers" surround rather than a sphere, unless the game itself is "double-processing" surround (kinda like double-amping). But yeah, if CMSS-3D or SBX (or THX) don't sound "right" or surround to a person's ears, that person should look elsewhere.

See, now that's the part I'm fuzzy on... Sheer ignorance on my part, just haven't looked into it tbh. I've always just enabled/disabled CMSS/DH on a whim depending on what I heard. Maybe Nameless can shed some light here, although maybe we should take this to his PC thread (I really gotta sub to it), but...

If a game's* doing it's own surround processing in software and you enable DH or CMSS, what happens? Are the latter working atop the former? Should the latter not be used in certain situations? Is it different between the two depending on the game engine/processing? (DH/CMSS)
*talking strictly modem games here


Edit: BTW, according to Nameless' guide the current versions of FMOD don't do OpenAl passthrough... Are there any modern/future titles actually still doing native OpenAl out there? I would think with Creative abandoning CMSS-3D that would provide little incentive for anyone to actually push 3D positional data forward...

Doesn't that mean we're pretty much limited to virtual 5.1 from here on out? Or are some new games providing true 3D surround emulation entirely in software? (but again, how does that interact with DH/CMSS?) Color me thoroughly confused...

Gonna link to this post on Nameless' thread since it's more on point...
Edited by Impulse - 3/24/13 at 2:19am
post #12560 of 31226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

Glacial,

I don't know enough about the RS 220... but I'm thinking that you are sending a 5.1 DDL signal to your headphones, and the headphones only understand stereo input. You probably ought to connect the RS 220 to the analogue output of your sound card with the headphone surround processing enabled, or see if the card can process the virtual surround (into 2 channels for your headphones) and then pipe out the 2 channel processed signal to the headphones.

 

 

Thank you for the help. Anyone else have any solution to my problem?

 

Btw, how can I check that it is because my soundcard doesnt compatible with the RS 220, and not that my RS 220 has defects? I do not have another soundcard or rig or hometheatre etc :(

post #12561 of 31226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

Glacial,
I don't know enough about the RS 220... but I'm thinking that you are sending a 5.1 DDL signal to your headphones, and the headphones only understand stereo input. You probably ought to connect the RS 220 to the analogue output of your sound card with the headphone surround processing enabled, or see if the card can process the virtual surround (into 2 channels for your headphones) and then pipe out the 2 channel processed signal to the headphones.

Yeah, that's the first thing I thought of too, the card probably defaults to DDL when using optical (the assumption being that you're sending it to a receiver). Glacial, try gong into the settings and switching it to PCM output (2-channel), AFAIK the RS220 base station doesn't do an surround signal decoding so it's just gonna balk when fed one.

You may still be able to use surround processing (Dolby Headphone) regardless... I'm just not sure how it's currently working on the D2X, on earlier driver versions of my STX the software wouldn't allow you to enable DH on any output but the dedicated headphone output, later on they changed it so it even works over optical tho. I think the cards all share a common driver base so it's probably the same for you.

If you can't enable DH once you've got the optical output working I don't think it's a big deal, for all you know the card's DAC might be better than the RS220's base station so going analog wouldn't be a downgrade... Though I guess it means sending the signal thru more processing which you generally try.to avoid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNinja View Post

My problem now is I'm having trouble deciding if I can/should use the decoder from the AX 720's and get a sound card for my PC or should I get something like the FiiO E17 USB DAC headphone amplifier so I could use it on my consoles and PC interchangeably.

Any help is appreciated.

Like, Evshrug alluded to, it's a matter of priorities... What are you most concerned with: PC gaming, console gaming, or music? Snobbery aside, the E17 isn't any better of a DAC than a decent sound card, better amp possibly (better than most cards, not better than an STX's/Creative Zx's amp tho). You seem to be in a similar situation as Ziharay a couple of dozen posts up... wink.gif

The E17 is a nice portable DAC/amp, but it doesn't sound like that's a big concern for you... (correct me if I'm wrong) Depending on your budget, and if you care equally about PC/console gaming, I think you might be etter off getting a cheap ($50-60) sound card plus a much better desk amp ($100) for just a couple more bucks than the E17 alone. It covers all the bases and sets you up for a while (possibly for good, or a good long while), that is assuming you don't mind hanging in with the AX720 base for now.

Take a look at the E09k or Magni, they're not any harder to move between your PC and console unless they aren't in the same house (heck you can get an extra wall wart for the Magni for like $10). As for a sound card, a Xonar DGX will get you DH and paired with an external amp it'll sound as good as any complete solution south of $300.

The point is you end up with pieces that work well with each other, if you want an expensive DAC later for music playback on the PC you can get one, pair it with your amp, and switch between it and the DGX (for gaming). Or even get one with optical input and feed it the DGX's output. If you wanna upgrade the AX720 base later for a DSS or a Mixamp you can just drop it in and pair it with your amp... Not that you couldn't do that with the E17, but you'd end up paying for an inferior amp and a DAC you might not use much in the long run.

If PC gaming isn't a priority, well, I wrote a lot of nonsense you can ignore... tongue.gif Altho I'd still go for something like the E09/Magni, tho maybe you would want to get a DSS or something like that before getting a DAC for the PC for music duties (E07 maybe, don't need to shoot higher if you have the E09).
Edited by Impulse - 3/24/13 at 1:13am
post #12562 of 31226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impulse View Post


Yeah, that's the first thing I thought of too, the card probably defaults to DDL when using optical (the assumption being that you're sending it to a receiver). Glacial, try gong into the settings and switching it to PCM output (2-channel), AFAIK the RS220 base station doesn't do an surround signal decoding so it's just gonna balk when fed one.

You may still be able to use surround processing (Dolby Headphone) regardless... I'm just not sure how it's currently working on the D2X, on earlier driver versions of my STX the software wouldn't allow you to enable DH on any output but the dedicated headphone output, later on they changed it so it even works over optical tho. I think the cards all share a common driver base so it's probably the same for you.

If you can't enable DH once you've got the optical output working I don't think it's a big deal, for all you know the card's DAC might be better than the RS220's base station so going analog wouldn't be a downgrade... Though I guess it means sending the signal thru more processing which you generally try.to avoid.

 

Hmmm I still cant get optical working. But I'm now pretty sure it is because DDL thing since you and Evshrug said the same, not because my RS 220 has defect.

 

Thx.

post #12563 of 31226
Did you find a setting to change the optical output from DDL to uncompressed/stereo PCM?
post #12564 of 31226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impulse View Post

Did you find a setting to change the optical output from DDL to uncompressed/stereo PCM?

 

No, I cant find it.

 

Here is my SS:

 

[IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/wrxhk.jpg[/IMG]

 

http://tinypic.com/r/wrxhk/6

 

In PCM setting, theres no DDL.


Edited by Glacial - 3/24/13 at 4:50am
post #12565 of 31226

Finally! Problem Solved!

 

Looks like I choose wrong sample rate :p

 

So stupid... newb mistakes.... :(

 

Sorry for all the fuss. And Thx.


Edited by Glacial - 3/24/13 at 6:47am
post #12566 of 31226
I have been reading and following this thread for quite some time, and after reading a lot of good about the dt990 pro 250 ohms they've really grown at me and I'm thinking about buying one... But before I do, is £121.49 a good price for them? (Current price on amazon.co.uk, really haven't been more than 1£ lower, so almost the lowest price the've been) Would there be anything better I could get for that price? It's the overall experience and enjoyment I'm after with the headphone I'm going to buy, not only the competitive aspect of the headphone. Also lowering the bass slightly while gaming, would that improve their performance?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beyerdynamic-DT990-PRO-Headset-250/dp/B0011UB9CQ?SubscriptionId=AKIAJ7T5BOVUVRD2EFYQ
post #12567 of 31226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zharay View Post

Thanks for linking me those sites, especially the camelx3 one, going to be using this from now on when I look into prices. I'd go for Razordogaudio, but they are currently out of business until April 1st and I'd rather have my gear in hand by then.

 

On the flip side I've hunkered down and bought my stuff. Ended up with the X-Fi Titanium HD, Schiit Magni, and the DT990 250 ohm Premiums. The reason I went with the Premium over the Pro was due to two things: I really didn't like the idea of having that extra clamp despite the extra bass and smaller soundstage. The Premiums seem to be a much better fit for my larger head and I don't want to feel that pressure on my ears for long term use. The other reason is that I managed to find a decent price on them. Someone posted up a $250 set that was hardly used at all so I snatched it up. I did find $160 PROs that I could of gotten, but I won't be buying me another set for a while.

 

So in all I think I've spent $470 or so, bring it just under my $500 limit I had placed on myself. Can't wait to get my gear next week! beyersmile.png

 

 

Haha yea this is where it starts. Now that I got a great job, I'm probably going to end up with a full multi-headphone stand mislabeled as a "mug holder" beerchug.gif

've ot a big head and big ears and I enjoy the extra clamp. Keeps em snug, the ads are comfy enough that there is no pain with them. and I own both pro 880 n 990 

 

good to hear I understand gain correctly ish, I figured that's what it was. ratio or something but know I know more exactly, and my dt might sound better on like 18 or so. Who knows I'll fiddle with it later 


Edited by Mshenay - 3/24/13 at 8:58am
post #12568 of 31226

Screw the Phillips X1.  I'm waiting eagerly for that closed back audeze.  I'm borrowing my old M50 I gave my brother a year or two ago.  The cavernous and extended closed bass is addicting.

post #12569 of 31226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

Tritton's processing unit is (afaik) only available in an AX720 headphone bundle, and it's nothing special really. It uses Dolby Headphone, just like the Turtle Beach DSS and Mixamp, but besides the processing, the amp has noise performance below the others. Your Trittons (made by Mad Catz) has the processing built-in in such a way that other headphones can't take advantage of it. By the way, did you read my "article?"
Ok Im confused by this because I have AX-Pros and there is definately a decoder box included... It doesnt matter I guess because Im planning to fix and they dont seem to be compatible with much anyway! Do you mean your "If I knew then..." thread? Yes I read it. Very interesting! 
One other thing I pointed out was that the headphones like your AX Pros have multiple drivers in the headset to perform surround... Maybe you're used to that by now, but usually each driver isn't as good as a regular one in a stereo headphone, and I talk about why/how 2 headphone speakers can produce surround from any direction... Not just directions corresponding to a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker surround setup, although console games are limited to filtering directional cues through 5.1/7.1 channels. Creative's soundcards for PC (and a few software options) have processing designed from the ground up for headphones and games that can mathematically calculate a sound coming from any direction or elevation. That's the main draw of Creative sound cards, not the EAX that Impulse mentioned (which creates environment sounds, like reverb that sounds like it's coming from inside a cave or grand opera hall). To this day, games are being made that take advantage of the full, 3D sphere of surround, but they're only found on PC, and it's not guaranteed to be included in every AAA game anymore either. But, like PhysX or Tesselation, it's cool when it is there.

Very interesting stuff. 

post #12570 of 31226
I did mean my "if I knew then..." thread, my 2nd post was an "article" explaining surround.
I've never used the AX PROs myself, so I don't know what the setup is like, but FWIR the headphones are the type with multiple drivers and you can't use other headphones with the AX PRO's decoder box. Also, you'll probably be impressed with the clarity of other headphones wink.gif

...

wink.gif
But have you any other questions?
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