Cables and Snake Oil - Please read before you are fooled! - Page 2

What ! 

No counters ? 

Say it is not so !

Quote:

Originally Posted by kboe 

Thats whats seperates our two sides.  Cable believers have no need to convert or question the other side.  We're happy with our setups and generally have the mindset of "to each his own".  Cable Atheist however seem to have a compulsive need to "be right" and to educate us "easily tricked - placebo prone - marketing victims".   

Or, perhaps, the person claiming that no audiable difference is making an argument while the person saying there is is, instead of engaging the argument, mocking both it at the poster himself.

Perhaps that's what separates your two sides?

Of course: were the cable-believers truly just happy and uninterested in convincing others; why would they post?

The truth is that many exotic cables *do* sound different. They are designed to alter the electrical signal flowing through them in a way that will result in audio distortion on the other end. We see the same thing in the amp market with most tube amps, and basically all mixed tube-ss amps designed to drive tubes into distortion so as to create an altered sound.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by akart 

^ Good read, thanks!

 

Unfortunately, although the first article describes that the electrical characteristics of different wire are different (no brainer), it does not present any information on whether this makes any audible difference.

The missing link and where the big split exists between the pro and anti cable sides. The pro side say there is something inherent in the cable that makes a hifi sound different (better) with different (better) cables. The anti side say any difference (as better is clearly subjective and down to the individual) is in the mind and comes with senses other than hearing alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kboe 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9pintube 

Quote:

Nicely Said!        But I'll add, If they want to use "LAMP CORD" for their speaker connections HAVE AT IT!!!! 

 

Thats whats seperates our two sides.  Cable believers have no need to convert or question the other side.  We're happy with our setups and generally have the mindset of "to each his own".  Cable Atheist however seem to have a compulsive need to "be right" and to educate us "easily tricked - placebo prone - marketing victims".   

That is not true, just look at all of the advertising for cables here, other forums and in the hifi media. There is an industry out there where there is a huge need to convert and question the 'cable atheist' as you put it. I feel the need to follow the evidence and to participate in debates that have two sides to them!

Science shows that a functional cable makes no difference.

Science also shows that placebo is real. There's no reason to hate on someone for enjoying placebo. They're actually noticing a difference - even if it isn't there.

There are a lot of smart asses on both sides of the debate. If that were checked, we still won't come to an outcome other than current state. There are many in the world that think a radio is as good as all the gear we've amassed and are squabbling over. To them, we're all nuts.

I guess i'm a cable atheist, as i've done my own experiments by making cables as bad as possible and only heard a difference when using single thin strands of copper for interconnects (one per channel...no shield) these sounded thin, quite literally, but SQ went right back up when using a few strands.  I've totally debunked optical cables by shining them into the sockets from many inches away with no loss in SQ at all.  I've totally debunked digital cables by using a single 1m strand of 0.1mm nichrome wire in place of a quality canare/belden pro quality type with no change in SQ.  I've totally debunked power cables by using a quite nice one (some belden affair) then unplugging it mid song and my amp continued to play with no loss in SQ (uhm, until the caps ran dry).

If running the worst possible conditions i can do seems to not affect SQ, how will an expensive cable make things sound better?  logic says it's won't, no science supports expensive cables, and the only people claiming expensive cables do work are either salesmen or middle aged lifestyle warriors who seem to practise in a form of audio homeopathy, neither exactly 'reliable'.

The long and short of it is that cables are a hugely profitable segment of the hifi market, a visual metaphor for sound quality whose aesthetics and composition help male consumers become more 'involved' in the audio chain - the esoteric metals and thick, braided covers lend their physicality to the observed sound itself as they loop between impenetrable black boxes.  Add in cable geometries, dielectrics, battery biasing, plug types, and godknows what else, and cables transcend from simply carrying a signal from one measly PCB trace to another into ways for the male mind to see that which cannot be seen.

Here is a handy guide on making money out of power cables

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxanex 

"I am here to fix ein cable, that's why they send me, I am expert..."

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by googleborg 

I guess i'm a cable atheist, as i've done my own experiments by making cables as bad as possible and only heard a difference when using single thin strands of copper for interconnects (one per channel...no shield) these sounded thin, quite literally, but SQ went right back up when using a few strands.  I've totally debunked optical cables by shining them into the sockets from many inches away with no loss in SQ at all.  I've totally debunked digital cables by using a single 1m strand of 0.1mm nichrome wire in place of a quality canare/belden pro quality type with no change in SQ.  I've totally debunked power cables by using a quite nice one (some belden affair) then unplugging it mid song and my amp continued to play with no loss in SQ (uhm, until the caps ran dry).

 

 

If running the worst possible conditions i can do seems to not affect SQ, how will an expensive cable make things sound better?  logic says it's won't, no science supports expensive cables, and the only people claiming expensive cables do work are either salesmen or middle aged lifestyle warriors who seem to practise in a form of audio homeopathy, neither exactly 'reliable'.

 

 

The long and short of it is that cables are a hugely profitable segment of the hifi market, a visual metaphor for sound quality whose aesthetics and composition help male consumers become more 'involved' in the audio chain - the esoteric metals and thick, braided covers lend their physicality to the observed sound itself as they loop between impenetrable black boxes.  Add in cable geometries, dielectrics, battery biasing, plug types, and godknows what else, and cables transcend from simply carrying a signal from one measly PCB trace to another into ways for the male mind to see that which cannot be seen.

"Hugely Profitable" 

I do not agree with this statement. The cable I make are made from scratch in the UK and not re-branded or recovered with fancy plastic from a far eastern land at a few pennies, no new tooling is used so no original thoughts have gone into these far eastern products.

Our tooling cost us a small fortune.

Our cables are not put into sparkling carton with a hologram of 7 of 9 on to catch your the eye.

And the strange thing is the manufacture make a lot less money than the retailer who has less over heads odd that (like banker). 

Now I designed the cable with a very sceptical mind I have heard bell wire, silver wire, power cord, FM flat wire and most of the other standard far eastern repacks and concluded the wrong tactic was taken by them all, then spent loads of time and money designing a value for money product that was not a copy recovered.

We started Jan 2010 since then we have won awards over these well established other, why ?

Is it bull shit or is there something in it, did you read my last post on the site for the PDF's? Have you look at Youtube video on cables ? try the Max Townsend vid it is good it show up error in cables, I think the conclusion  is wrong but that is my opinion only.

Now maybe you can;t hear any difference but could it be your system just a little bit lacking, by system I mean signal, amp, speaker, cable, room, you and maybe hearing aid this form the system. 

Best regards

Colin Wonfor

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9pintube 

Quote:

Originally Posted by endless402 

wires sound different, it's subjective as to which is "better"

Nicely Said!        But I'll add, If they want to use "LAMP CORD" for their speaker connections HAVE AT IT!!!! 

 

I use wet string and pray to Wotan, a blue noisey god for rain he he

Colin
 

Sorry, Colin, but that blather came across as completely meaningless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by limpidglitch 

Sorry, Colin, but that blather came across as completely meaningless.

I am not surprised

That didn't help much.

Are you the Colin Wonfor of Tellurium Q?