[unspool]

Just to be clear, I don't have a position on this and I'm not disagreeing with you. If you're satisfied that Grado uses a different driver for each of its models then fine but the debate continues regardless.

 

[Focker]

Quote:

Just to be clear, I don't have a position on this and I'm not disagreeing with you. If you're satisfied that Grado uses a different driver for each of its models then fine but the debate continues regardless.

I think what makes little sense to me is why people tend to debate things like this, but they never take the time to actually contact the horse's mouth, so to speak. There have been several times when I saw people debating some issue, so I simply shot an email off to company x, or contacted them by phone, and found the answer. If a company wanted to keep something private, all they really need to claim something is proprietary and leave it at that. It's a competitive world out there, and there's no shame in a company not wanting to disclose it's processes.  To quote Spock, to make a false claim for no apparent reason and risk having all sorts of controversy and criticism erupt as a result is....illogical.

 

[unspool]

Facts can be hard to come by in this hobby. If I wanted to ascertain whether buying an expensive set of cables would improve the performance of my headphones, I expect that the manufacturer would assure me that they will, even if can't hear it. "Getting it straight from the horse's mouth" doesn't guarantee that you'll always get a straight answer. False or fanciful claims are usually made for a reason, and in audio it's to sell product to consumers who often want to believe the claims that are made, so they can rationalize their decision to purchase gear they desire.

 

[Focker]

Quote:

Facts can be hard to come by in this hobby. If I wanted to ascertain whether buying an expensive set of cables would improve the performance of my headphones, I expect that the manufacturer would assure me that they will, even if can't hear it. "Getting it straight from the horse's mouth" doesn't guarantee that you'll always get a straight answer. False or fanciful claims are usually made for a reason, and in audio it's to sell product to consumers who often want to believe the claims that are made, so they can rationalize their decision to purchase gear they desire.

 
Well yeah, that's entirely subjective. If you asked that same manufacturer whether they use copper or silver....or this gauge or that gauge....then I woudl expect you'd have little reason to doubt their response. I don't think the question of the Grado drivers beign different or the same equates to a subjective assessment of whether cables make an audible difference to the sound. In your example I would DEFINITELY expect lots of debate and conjecture....and certainly we both recognize that's exactly the case when it comes to cables. I understand the point you're making, though.

 

[unspool]

I think the example is analogous if Grado is modifying existing drivers and describing them as "upgraded", "redesigned" or "new and improved" - that would be misleading or selling snake oil if you will. But you are convinced that they do not engage in this practice, and they use different drivers for each of their headphone models. So we should probably move on.

 

[stacker45]

Well,same drivers or not,i just finished listening to ''Best audiophile voices VOL IV'' on cd,with my PS1000,straight from the headphone output of my old Yamaha CA610II,and i truly believe that they are definately the best Grado headphones i've ever heard,these aren't going anywhere soon.

 

[LCfiner]

As I remember, purrin ran some CSD measurements on some Grados (SR80 and SR225) with different cup materials and damping and all that and noted that the SR80 had ringing issues that the SR225 driver did not have, regardless of which cups or what kind of damping was used.
 
I feel that contributes as some evidence that some of the drivers between some models are different. We still don't know the exact mechanical ways in which they differ but we have at least one set of measurements showing that some of the cheaper drivers (SR80)  display characteristics different than one of the more expensive ones.

 

[Focker]

Quote:

Well,same drivers or not,i just finished listening to ''Best audiophile voices VOL IV'' on cd,with my PS1000,straight from the headphone output of my old Yamaha CA610II,and i truly believe that they are definately the best Grado headphones i've ever heard,these aren't going anywhere soon.

 
Every time I see your posts, I enlarge your avatar to see those GS1ks and PS1ks next to each other like that....so damn awesome

 

[unspool]

Quote:

Well,same drivers or not,i just finished listening to ''Best audiophile voices VOL IV'' on cd,with my PS1000,straight from the headphone output of my old Yamaha CA610II,and i truly believe that they are definately the best Grado headphones i've ever heard,these aren't going anywhere soon.

 
It's a wonderful headphone. I could care less if John Grado developed a new driver for it or sprinkled magic dust on a stock one.

 

[Focker]

Have you spent any time with the GS1k, unspool? If so, how did you feel it compared to the PS1k? 

 

[unspool]

Only a little. I remember being struck by its clarity, airiness and light weight. I liked it but the PS1000 sounds more complete to me.

 

[Mortalcoil]

If I recall correctly there was a similar discussion on Grado drivers sometime ago (I tried searching for the thread to no avail).  If my memory serves correct it was in relation to the Grado facilty tour back in 07.  The identical question was put forth "does Grado produce drivers in house" as well as "are the same drivers used".
 
According to what one member described (beleive it was Immtbiker) he saw first hand the actual tooling and machine in action producing the drivers.  At the time, Zanth also was told by John that each driver was produced in house.
 
As far as "doping" goes or "tuning" if you like there has always been some speculation regarding the black putty placed behind the drivers on such models ranging from the RS-2 and up.  According to another source at Grado (John Chapais), the coil (relating to how it was wound) tuning also played a large part in each models sound sig.
 
If you refer to some of these older pics from Grados site http://gradolabs.com/page_tour.php , there was also discussion on wether the drivers laying in the plastic trays were merely Chinese produced cheapies.  It was however put to rest that as mentioned earlier these drivers were in fact all created in house.
 
I suppose you could say that in a nutshell each driver may begin its life as a clone of the one next to it, but depending on the model its being housed in (or intended for) Grado applies different recipes (putty / coil tensions) to allow for the sonic differences.

 

[unspool]

Fascinating. Thanks for posting this.

 

[Focker]

Quote:

If I recall correctly there was a similar discussion on Grado drivers sometime ago (I tried searching for the thread to no avail).  If my memory serves correct it was in relation to the Grado facilty tour back in 07.  The identical question was put forth "does Grado produce drivers in house" as well as "are the same drivers used".
 
According to what one member described (beleive it was Immtbiker) he saw first hand the actual tooling and machine in action producing the drivers.  At the time, Zanth also was told by John that each driver was produced in house.
 
As far as "doping" goes or "tuning" if you like there has always been some speculation regarding the black putty placed behind the drivers on such models ranging from the RS-2 and up.  According to another source at Grado (John Chapais), the coil (relating to how it was wound) tuning also played a large part in each models sound sig.
 
If you refer to some of these older pics from Grados site http://gradolabs.com/page_tour.php , there was also discussion on wether the drivers laying in the plastic trays were merely Chinese produced cheapies.  It was however put to rest that as mentioned earlier these drivers were in fact all created in house.
 
I suppose you could say that in a nutshell each driver may begin its life as a clone of the one next to it, but depending on the model its being housed in (or intended for) Grado applies different recipes (putty / coil tensions) to allow for the sonic differences.

 
 
Wow, that was great, thanks...I'd love to go on a factory tour at some point.
 
 
unspool: good, that's what I was hoping you'd say. I still want to pick up some PS-1ks, so I like hearing that there is room left to grow over what I already have (GS1ks, PS500s)

 

[stacker45]

Quote:

 
Every time I see your posts, I enlarge your avatar to see those GS1ks and PS1ks next to each other like that....so damn awesome

 
The GS1000s are nice to look at,but the chrome PS1000s are just spectacular looking in person.