Okay, don't read this unless a) you're very bored, b) have lots of time, or c) know anything about the insides of an amp! You've been warned
 
So I've had a Creek Destiny amp for just less than 2 years. This is the sorry saga of the last 4 weeks with the Creek Audio service guys, and Mike and Luke Creek.
 
1. Amp started going into protection mode and then speaker would buzz and cut out. The LED display went red, which according to the manual was a 'fatal' error and must be sent back for repair.

2. Called Creek as it was still under warranty. Mike Creek said to send it back to the factory and it would be checked out. He noted that the speaker buzz was a definite indicator of an amp problem.

3. Called service guys after a week. Found out the box (which cost £57 to ship back to them via next day delivery) hadn't even been opened because it wasn't in a Creek box - so they didn't know what it was and just left it unopened...

4. Aftter finally bothering to open it - they left it in test mode for two days, couldn't find anything wrong with it at all - but as a precaution against any potential problems in the future, they upgraded some of the capacitors to 'decoupled'?? and sent it back to me.

4. Got it back, plugged it in. It shut down immediately.

5. Swapped speaker cables at the amp end - worked for a few minutes and then speaker buzzed and cut out.

6. Called Creek. Mike Creek asked what else was connected and then suggested that my Quad CDP-2 was possibly sending D/C to my amp, and that the Destiny's 'sophisticated' protection circuit would detect this and shut down.... but I unplugged the Quad and the amp still shut down. He suggested unplugging everything one by one to see what was causing it. But because the problem was intermittent (though normally on start up) - I couldn't make it shut off unless it wanted to. Was told to call back if I needed more advice, but at no time did he suggest the amp could be at fault (since there was apparently nothing wrong with it in the first place).

7. Got my speaker cables rewired just in case... amp still went into protection mode.

8. Called Creek, and this time spoke to Mike's son, Luke. Gave him the symptoms and all he said was that it was highly unlikely to be the amp (bear in mind that the symptoms were the same as the first time round when Mike Creek had determined it was an amp problem) and said that the voice coil in my speaker could be blown, and the Destiny's 'sophisticated' protection circuit would detect this and shut down to protect the voice coil. I was left feeling a bit of a nuisance because both of them were steering me away from the possibility that the amp could still be faulty, and were getting me to look for other faulty components in my system.

9. As I didn't have easy access to test another amp, I decided to get all my audio cables tested for continuity and resistance (to rule them out) - but they all checked out fine. Then everything was unplugged from the amp - and when it was switched on, it went straight into protection mode. Bingo.

10. Called Creek. They arranged pick up and said that Mike Creek would check it out himself.

11. Two days later I got an email from TNT saying my parcel was on its way back to me. Heard nothing from Creek so had no idea what was going on, was it fixed? Was there nothing wrong with it still??

12. Called Creek, and spoke to Giles. This is where I get really hacked off. I told him my amp was on its way back, but I had no idea what (if anything) had been done to it. I was then informed that Mike Creek had seen a very 'noticeable' spillage stain on the top of the casing.... and that beneath the vent there was a lot of corrosion on the capacitors from the spilled liquid which he spent a very long time cleaning up!!!

Well, I was shocked. The amp has always, but always been protected in a shelf unit. It's not possible to have ever spilled anything in it, ever. It would have had to be unplugged and pulled out of the unit to be able to spill anything in it.

Not only that, but I would have seen a stain (especially as Giles said it was noticeable) when I packed it up the first time round, and there were no marks on it at all. The service guys didnt mention anything about spillage - and if they checked the amp, how come they didn't see all this terrible corrosion that had taken place due to the spill???

I asked Giles how come they hadn't spotted anything, and he said: "Mike works under brighter lights than them".......... I then repeated that it was not possible for anything to have been spilled in it, and that I would have seen a stain, as would the service guys. So I asked what other way fluid could have got into my amp - and he said a burst capacitor, but that it would be 'easy' to see. Easy? If the service guys overlooked a load of corrosion under the vent and sent the amp back with a clean bill of health - isn't it possible they could have missed a burst capacitor??

I know nothing about stupid capacitors and it's all too technical for me - but the point is that because Creek's service guys didn't bother to check my amp properly, I'm £150 out of pocket after paying out to test everything else in my set up. Not impressed at all, and that's without the inconvenience of having to send it off twice in four weeks and being without a proper working system for so long.

If I'd gone by Mike and Luke's advice, I would be having my Quad serviced and my speaker coil replaced.... and all the time it was the flaming amp.

Anyway, rant is almost over. I put a note in with the amp to ask Mike that IF he established the amp was at fault - who would refund me for the money I'd spent out troubleshooting everything else. He didn't respond to that at all, and now it's like they did me a huge favour because spillage isn't covered by warranty.

What can I do next? I'm going to call Mike later to ask how his service guys could have missed it, but I'm very easily blinded with science, so I need to know what intelligent and knowledgeable questions to ask!
 
Also, if the amp was upside down at all in transit (when it went back the second time) is there the slightest chance at all that a burst / leaking capacitor could have leaked enough fluid to trickle through the vent and cause the stain Mike Creek said he saw? I need to know what happened to my amp, and I know for a fact nothing was ever spilled in it. I'm feeling very cynical right now that the service guys didn't do their job properly, and yet somehow it's my fault now because I spilled something in it?
 
I'd really like some input on this, because this isn't some $200 amp that's 20 years old. My cheaper NADS went for years and never broke down. So if there was no spillage (and there wasn't!) - then what does that mean? Does it mean that it's likely to clap out again in a year or two when it won't be covered by warranty anymore? How common is it for capacitors to corrode that badly in less than 2 years?
 
HELP!
 
And don't forget the knowledgable and intelligent questions I need to ask!!
 
 
EDIT: I trusted that Creek's service guys would know what they were doing. So when they said there was nothing wrong with it, I had to trust that, why wouldn't I? I didn't have any option but to assume it was something else - even though the symptoms (speaker buzz etc) were the same. And I'm kind of annoyed that Mike and his son didn't pay more heed to what I said, and instead suggested I look for a different fault because the amp was okay.

well that sounds like a big dollop of suckage, so is he trying to argue his staff are all useless and blind?  (fingers crossed his staff arent actually blind) but still what a cheek to argue it was soooo obvious yet his staff managed not to

It gets better. Turns out that when pressed about this supposed spillage that he had to clean up on my behalf.... he backtracked and said it wasn't spillage after all, but that the casing had been wiped down with a cloth because one side was shinier than the other?? Yeah. A dry lint-free cloth!
 
So okay. Like I said, nothing was ever spilled in it which meant it became defective on its own. His tech guys said he'd sent over a photo of the damage because he didn't understand how they'd missed it. Apparently, he'd never seen anything like it before? Of course, he doesn't know I know that.
 
Oh, and there was a dry joint too.
 
Result is, Mike Creek pretty much said I should be grateful it was fixed free of charge (even though it was still under warranty) and that it's not his fault I'm out of pocket trying to troubleshoot the rest of my set up. Well, it IS his fault because if his tech guys had done their job properly, it would have been fixed the first time round.
 
And even though he knew it had exactly the same symptoms when it was returned to me the first time, he tried to blame my Quad and his son tried to blame my speaker.
 
He even refuses to warranty his own repair, and he seems resentful that he had to fix it himself because I wanted it back quickly the second time around?
 
Never ever buying a Creek product again. Worst ethics I've ever come across. Who invents a spillage stain so they can blame it on the customer and make out they've done them a favour by fixing it 'free of charge'?
 
Quote:

mark2410 said:

well that sounds like a big dollop of suckage, so is he trying to argue his staff are all useless and blind?  (fingers crossed his staff arent actually blind) but still what a cheek to argue it was soooo obvious yet his staff managed not to

Click to expand...

That's too bad, sorry to hear it. I only have one (cheap) Creek product that is long out of warranty, and I would expect to be on my own if it had any issues. But a $2k+ product, still in warranty? That should be covered, and not in a half-assed way like it was.

I bought a bit of kit from Berhinger once (I know, I know). It didn't work when I first opened the box. Replacement arrived in 2 days.  Took six months to break down again.....
 
I also bought something made by Cambridge Audio. Didn't work properly but they did replace it. Twice. Still didn't work properly but still....
 
My M-Audio AV40s broke down within six months. They might have fixed them under warranty. Couldn't be arsed with the hassle.
 
Now I only buy good quality gear. Save up for something decent from a reputable company with a long warranty.
 
Cheap kit is cheap.

Quote:

Worst value maybe, but bad components regardless of the price shouldn't be considered "High End" because (for me) High End is specifically SQ related not price dependent.
 
Any Horn speaker. To me they always sound like horns, not music. Play big band music on a set of Avantgarde's and it's mighty impressive, they do horns well, but play a solo cello or violin and they sound nothing like it does in real life.

Creek Integrated amps - I used to work at a dealer that sold these and if it wasn't for Sam Telligs numerous raves of them no-one would buy them. In side by side comparisons the half as expensive Rotel always smoked them. Literally the only people who purchased them were the people who came to buy them and did no comparisons.

 

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What a horror story!
Soozieq, I can imagine how you feel; these are pieces of electronics that are important to us, and we are not so rich that they are easily replaced

I found the above quote in post #8 by Yikes here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/350775/worst-high-end-equipment-you-ve-heard (interesting thread BTW)
I'm starting to wonder if these guys are just smart businessmen that managed to convince -beside Sam Telig- some of the UK hifi press they were a genuine quality manufacturer...I trust Soozieq (enough to ask her to order my Sony X1060, and she did great), and the quote gives a the impression it is written form bitter and broad experience, together painting a picture of bad-value-for-money products from a company with lousy service.

 
 
Dear Julie,
 
I'm very sorry to hear that you are unhappy with our service.
 
After reading your comments I just wanted to clarify a few points.
 
I can only sincerely apologise for the delays in the original repair of your unit. Rest assured we have taken steps to make sure this situation can never happen again.
 
I'm very surprised that you paid so much in shipping cost as any member of the public can use a service such as 'Parcel Machine' to name but one, for a next day delivery for only £8.
 
When I spoke to you about the problems you were having I suggested that your speakers or cabling could be one reason why the amplifier was going in to protection mode. This is why I asked you to disconnect the speakers from the amplifier and use a set of headphones so we could pin-point the fault. I never heard back from you, until you phoned our office whilst you had an electrical engineer at your home. I would have never advised you to do this. The reason I had asked you to remove the speakers was to rule out all possibilities other than a fault in the amplifier. As you did not complete those steps, I fail to see how I could have done anymore over the phone.
 
After your testing had concluded that there was a fault with the amplifier, we arranged to have the amplifier collected at our own costs and it was then inspected by our MD, Mike Creek. 
 
With regards to the spillage. There was clearly some type of stain on the lid of the amplifier that was obvious to my eye under normal light levels. I feel my colleague's comment about Mike working under better lighting may have been said in jest and not as how you have portrayed it in this post.
 
The delivery of the repaired unit was being organised at our end but your right, it would have been better if we gave you a call before we booked the delivery letting you know you were just about the receive an email from TNT and that there was no need to worry. We did not realise that the TNT system worked in this way. Please be aware that during this time we were making sure that everything was in place and setup with your timetable requirements before we called you with news.
 
I feel you might have taken Mike's comments regarding warranty and costs in a different way than was meant. We warranty every single peace of work we do for 12 months. I would imagine that Mike's comment regarding potential non-warranty was due to the spillage we found on the lid. This sort of issue resulting in a failure of the amplifier would not be covered under any type of warranty.
 
Please rest assured that there is nothing inside the amplifier that could leak due to being upside down or otherwise. If a capacitor had of leaked it would of electrically joined that part of the circuit together. As it happened, all that was needed to remedy the fault was to re-solder the joins where the spill had leaked on to the PCB.
 
I'm not a fan of public flogging and I don't normally post on these types of forums but I was so upset by your insinuations and accusations I felt it needed an equally public response.
 
I hope that this clarification goes some way in allaying any fears you might have with the unit. Please don't forget that if you need help or advice I would be only too happy to help you as I have done so in the past.
 
Kind Regards
 
Luke Creek
 

Quote:

lukecreek said:

 
 
Dear Julie,
 
 
[............]
 
Kind Regards
 
Luke Creek
 

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Ummmm, I might be a bit old fashioned but I don't think it is appropriate to post the persons name, esp if they didn't post their name first.
 
People pick nick-names for a reason in forums.
 
But at any rate, media like this can hurt revenue both long and short term.  Being honest with the customer and going the extra mile to make sure they are satisfied goes a long way, it builds brand loyalty for repeat business and lays a foundation for future customers who hear the good customer service and let that guide their next purchase.
 
Replacing the entire board would have been the best thing.  You write off the costs for replacement as a loss to offset profits, increase customer loyalty, demonstrate integrity within the company, and increase the chances of future sales from new customers. 
 
Bad press like this can go a long way, its bound to show up in Internet searches and steer future customers away.
 
However, to be fair Creek does have to run a business and I am sure they get warranty claims that are clearly the customers fault.  Many people feel like companies have money and can afford to take a loss more easily than themselves.  I have seen people come into stores with cameras that their kids have obviously broken but bring it back and claim it was like that in the box, even though its a month old and obviously used.  After 2 years it is odd that a piece of gear starts to have faults like that, usually if it has faulty parts it will fail much sooner and if it doesn't it won't fail at all.
 

Quote:

soozieq said:

It gets better.................
 
<snip>
 
Quote:

Click to expand...

 
Creek claims that: all that was needed to remedy the fault was to re-solder the joins where the spill had leaked on to the PCB.
 
I find it hard to believe that a spill, great enough to stain the top of the case and corrode the solder joints on the board was missed by Creek the first time you sent it in.
 
Then Creek says:  After your testing had concluded that there was a fault with the amplifier, we arranged to have the amplifier collected....
 
They had the amp, they tested the amp (not) then claimed it was returned to you in working order, (which it was not).   It was only when YOU had it tested and phoned them with an electrical engineer at your home to corroborate that something was wrong with the amp, that Creek was forced to do something about it. 
 
I think the post by Creek was a complete load of damage control BS. 
 
So,  to get you ducks in a row --->
 

• Did you spill anything on the amp that could have leaked into the case and on to the board? 
• Could you have put a cup of coffee or a glass of soda or anything on the case,at any time, that could have left the mark in question on the outside of the case? 
• Can you see the stain Creek is referring to?
• Was it there before you sent it to Creek?
• Do you have any photos of the case before you sent it in for repair?
• Are you able to provide a photo of the supposed spill area on the case as it is today?
• Are you able to provide a high rez. photo of the repaired board?  It would be educational to see the area of the supposed spill.
• Did the EE open the case and look at the board when he was at your home?  It would be informative to know if he saw the same problem Creek claims to have repaired.

 
Good Luck
 
USG
 
 

 

Quote:

dynobot said:

However, to be fair Creek does have to run a business and I am sure they get warranty claims that are clearly the customers fault.  Many people feel like companies have money and can afford to take a loss more easily than themselves.  I have seen people come into stores with cameras that their kids have obviously broken but bring it back and claim it was like that in the box, even though its a month old and obviously used.  After 2 years it is odd that a piece of gear starts to have faults like that, usually if it has faulty parts it will fail much sooner and if it doesn't it won't fail at all.  

Click to expand...

 
I agree with you. However, there was no spillage at all. In fact, the tech guy at Stone Audio (where it was purchased from) talked to Mike Creek to find out more - and I was told that he had decided it wasn't spillage after all - it was just a dry-cloth mark. I always use a dry lint-free cloth to wipe down my audio equipment. There was no spillage. He also said there was a 'funny smell' coming from inside the amp, but he couldn't identify it, and I found out that leaking capacitors can smell.
 
I should add that I found all this out by talking to the tech guys, Stone Audio, and one of the assistants at Creek. Mike himself has told me nothing except that there was spillage which was now fixed. Of course, he's changed his mind about the spillage now, but I'm talking about when I first spoke to him to find out what he'd fixed.
 
 
USG -
 
1. No. I never ever spilled anything on it. It's just not possible. If I wanted to spill something on it, I would have had to unplug it and pull it out of the shelf unit. There was no spillage stain when it left here, and no stain when it came back. Plus the guy I spoke to at the factory said he and his guys didn't note any stains either. They have a photo of the damage to the board which was so bad, they were asked how they'd missed it.
 
2. No, no and no, categorically no.
 
3. No,
 
4. No.
 
5. No. I didn't think to take any photos because there was nothing wrong with it cosmetically.
 
6. There's no stain to take a photo of.
 
7. I wouldn't even know how to open the amp. It has so many screws everywere. But as it's been repaired, there should be nothing to see anyway, is that right?
 
8. No he didn't open the case. Actually I shouldn't call him simply an EE 'cos he installs audio systems too so he knows what he's testing for.
 
Fact is that I look after all my gear. I always have. It's never exposed so that anyone could put a drink on it! This is the first amp to have broken down on me, and ironically, the most expensive one i've owned.
 
I have no trouble with someone admitting that their tech guys failed and offering to put it right. But that's not what happened. The amp failed as soon as it got back to me the first time. And I called Creek immediately. That's when Mike Creek suggested my Quad could be at fault. After spending an entire weekend swapping cables round and generally pulling my hair out trying to figure what was wrong - I called again after the weekend, and that was when Luke suggested my voice coil could be blown.
 
Neither of them suggested I send the amp back to be fixed, even though it was displaying the same symptoms as before (speaker buzzing etc). It was only when the EE pulled everything out of the back of the amp and saw it go into protection mode himself, that he said it had to be the amp. Because it was 80% intermittent, I hadn't been able to make it shut off by unplugging everything before. But this time it did.
 
When I spoke to Stone Audio, the guy said that Mike had told him that the guys I sent it to were not really 'fault-finders'.... they built the amps, they didn't fault find. So why was I told to send it there if he knew that??
 
In relation to this comment: Creek claims that: all that was needed to remedy the fault was to re-solder the joins where "the spill" had leaked on to the PCB...
 
... except that there was NO SPILL. It has been verified that there was NO SPILL. And if the fix was so simple, then how come I was told that Mike spent most of the day cleaning up the corrosion and dry joints and leaking whatevers? That's why he sent a photo of it to the tech guys, because it was that bad.
 
I asked the guys for a copy of the photo, but they said they couldn't give it to me. I would have to ask Mike for it. Well, I know what the answer will be to that, so I won't bother.
 
Anyway, the whole experience has put me off Creek forever. If they'd just apologised for the inconvenience and asked for it back when it was shutting down, I wouldn't even have posted this. But instead of acknowledging that their tech guys failed - they made me feel I should be grateful it was fixed free of charge. And this was after the cost I'd incurred to troubleshoot the rest of my set up.
 
The story of the spillage stain is just inexcusable. Spillage isn't covered by warranty, but since it has been established that there was no spillage, it just leaves me with a defective amp.
 
And when Stone Audio said Mike Creek would be happy to warranty his own repair for a few months... I asked Mike, and he simply said: "Are you normally the type of person who fusses about nothing'?. What sort of attitude is that? He was very vague about the stain, and kept repeating that it was 'fixed free of charge'. Luckily, Stone Audio have promised to warranty the repair themselves, but why would Mike not warranty it himself?
 
The implication that I spilled something and caused the fault myself is the reason why I'm annoyed about all this. And having established there was no spillage at all - well... I should have at least received some acknowledgement about that, and I haven't. I only know that Mike Creek changed his mind about the spillage after I talked to Stone Audio - or else I would still be in the dark.

Thanks for the heads up. Sorry that you had to experience this for us to know now not to deal with them.

luke, if there clearly was some spillage then how did  your staff fail to find any problem with the amp and sent it back?
 
either there was a problem and mike seemed to think there was or there was not.  so is the message we should be taking here is that your staff cant be relied upon to test things and we ought to all insist mike personally checks there things?
 

I would be extremely reluctant to buy Creek gear now after reading this CS horror story, by ownership no less. I don't get why Luke is still referring to spillage as a cause. It's been shown that that's not a possibility from their service techs and Stone Audio. Time to rule spillage out. How could it have gotten so bad in two years?
 
So sorry you're having to straighten this mess out soozieq! Keep us posted. 

Luke,
 
I can't post without posting inside your post for some reason, so I put your comments in blue.
 
I don't normally post on these types of forums but I was so upset by your insinuations and accusations I felt it needed an equally public response.
 
And I'm upset by your accusations. It wasn't you who was erroneously accused of spilling something in your amp when you didn't, or was expected to be grateful because if was fixed free of charge. I stated the facts, which were that my amp was not fixed by the tech guys - and when you and Mike became aware that it was displaying the same symptoms as before the fix - neither of you offered to check it out. You both led me to look at other possible faults in my system, when it was the amp all along. Because of that, I ended up out of pocket. Those are the facts. Another fact. There was no spillage. Your whole explanation is based around spillage. But it didn't happen. Check with Mike if you don't believe me, or the guy at Stone Audio. He told him he realised it was just a cloth mark! If you wipe down the middle of your TV screen with a dry cloth - have you created a stain, or have you created a clearer part of the screen?
 
There was clearly some type of stain on the lid of the amplifier that was obvious to my eye under normal light levels.
 
Okay. So I overlooked an "obvious" stain on my own amp when I put it in the box. And your tech guys overlooked it when they had it. And I overlooked it again when it came back. And then again when I sent it back to you. Only you and Mike have seen this stain, this obvious stain, no one else. That's not an insinuation by the way. It's a fact. If that's the case, then surely Mike would have taken a photo of it, because a) it was apparently clear to see, and b) it would be proof for me that there was a stain. He took a photo of the board to show your guys because of the extent of the damage that they totally missed, so it stands to reason that he would have taken a photo of the stain on the casing at the same time. If I'm expected to believe that I'm responsible for my amp's failure, that liquid was spilled into it while it was fully protected in a shelf unit from the second it was ever connected, with the vents not exposed - then I'm entitled to see proof. Without it, it's just words. That's fair enough wouldn't you agree, since the stain is the sole reason I've been accused of spilling something in my amp?
 
"When I spoke to you about the problems you were having I suggested that your speakers or cabling could be one reason why the amplifier was going in to protection mode."
 
Yes you did. And I had the speaker cables replaced to rule them out.
 
This is why I asked you to disconnect the speakers from the amplifier and use a set of headphones so we could pin-point the fault.
 
The fault was the amp. Same speaker buzz and shutting down like before. You and Mike knew the symptoms too. But since neither of you offered to have the amp rechecked, the only way I could get you to take it back was if I was able to prove it was the amp, rather than wasting time troubleshooting the parts of my system that I didn't believe were faulty (like my Quad and speaker).
 
I never heard back from you,
 
See above. That's why.
 
until you phoned our office whilst you had an electrical engineer at your home.
I would have never advised you to do this.
 
I didn't say you did. But why would you think it was a bad idea to have a Homes-Theatre installer check all my audio cables to rule them out? I wanted to do things properly so I got a professional to do it. You didn't seem to be taking my word for anything, so I thought it was better to get an independent professional in so that you wouldn't have any doubts about whether my cables were tested correctly. Plus it was a lot cheaper than sending my speakers off for service, ot my Quad...
 
The reason I had asked you to remove the speakers was to rule out all possibilities other than a fault in the amplifier.
As you did not complete those steps, I fail to see how I could have done anymore over the phone.
 
That's because I spoke to Mike three days before I spoke to you, and he'd already given me several things that I could check over the weekend, which I'd done. When I called you, it was actually to give Mike the results of the tests, but he wasn't there and then you suggested even more tests, I was fed up testing and unplugging this and unplugging that. I just wanted you to ask for the amp back, but you didn't.
 
"I feel you might have taken Mike's comments regarding warranty and costs in a different way than was meant. We warranty every single peace of work we do for 12 months.
I would imagine that Mike's comment regarding potential non-warranty was due to the spillage we found on the lid. This sort of issue resulting in a failure of the amplifier would not be covered under any type of warranty."
 
Except that there was no spillage. Therefore his refusal to warranty his repair (because he did me such a favour fixing it free of charge) is just another great big kick in the teeth. It's bad enough that no one's been honest enough to admit that the amp was defective, but to penalise me by refusing to warranty my repair is just not acceptable or appropriate under the circumstances. If it wasn't for Stone Audio, I would be on my own if it broke down again and I'd have to pay for it.
 
"I'm very surprised that you paid so much in shipping cost as any member of the public can use a service such as 'Parcel Machine' to name but one, for a next day delivery for only £8."
 
I used Parcelforce next day delivery for a 10KG amp with insurance coverage of £1100.
I'll find out how much Parcel Machine would have charged, but I don't imagine that £8 would cover 10KG and £1100 of insurance. A feather maybe.
 
"As it happened, all that was needed to remedy the fault was to re-solder the joins where the spill had leaked on to the PCB"
 
Right. Except that there was no spillage. There's the dry joint too. Tech guys told me about that having to be addressed, not Mike. I've done as much research as I can on 'dry joints' and this concerns me: "DRY JOINT: defect in the solder, or the soldering itself - normally introduced in the manufacturing process and a common cause of electrical faults. If the joint is correctly prepared, aligned, fluxed and wetted, it will produce a stable solder joint. A joint can fracture due to vibration or thermal stress, but not otherwise become faulty. This would have to be a fault present from the start"
 
If there was already a fault from the start, then it was bound to fail I suppose. The question was when. And the 'when' was three weeks before my warranty expired. Still doesn't explain the rest of the damage which was 'nothing' like Mike had seen before. Funny thing is that he mentioned the possibility of a dry joint the first time I spoke to him and said it was something to with not being able to use lead anymore. So he mentioned a dry joint, but the tech guys said they just checked what they were asked to check - but some kind of secrecy act is preventing them from telling me exactly what that was.
 
What would be your diagnosis if you took spillage out of the equation entirely? I would be genuinely interested to know what could have caused that amount of damage without spillage being part of it at all.
 
On a final note, is it possible to have a copy of both reports on the work carried out, and also any photos that were taken? The tech guys promised me the first report three times, but I still have nothing.
 
Thanks.

Quote:

soozieq said:

 
I agree with you. However, there was no spillage at all. In fact, the tech guy at Stone Audio (where it was purchased from) talked to Mike Creek to find out more - and I was told that he had decided it wasn't spillage after all - it was just a dry-cloth mark. I always use a dry lint-free cloth to wipe down my audio equipment. There was no spillage. He also said there was a 'funny smell' coming from inside the amp, but he couldn't identify it, and I found out that leaking capacitors can smell.
 
I should add that I found all this out by talking to the tech guys, Stone Audio, and one of the assistants at Creek. Mike himself has told me nothing except that there was spillage which was now fixed. Of course, he's changed his mind about the spillage now, but I'm talking about when I first spoke to him to find out what he'd fixed.
 
 
USG -
 
1. No. I never ever spilled anything on it. It's just not possible. If I wanted to spill something on it, I would have had to unplug it and pull it out of the shelf unit. There was no spillage stain when it left here, and no stain when it came back. Plus the guy I spoke to at the factory said he and his guys didn't note any stains either. They have a photo of the damage to the board which was so bad, they were asked how they'd missed it.
 
2. No, no and no, categorically no.
 
3. No,
 
4. No.
 
5. No. I didn't think to take any photos because there was nothing wrong with it cosmetically.
 
6. There's no stain to take a photo of.
 
7. I wouldn't even know how to open the amp. It has so many screws everywere. But as it's been repaired, there should be nothing to see anyway, is that right?
 
8. No he didn't open the case. Actually I shouldn't call him simply an EE 'cos he installs audio systems too so he knows what he's testing for.
 
Fact is that I look after all my gear. I always have. It's never exposed so that anyone could put a drink on it! This is the first amp to have broken down on me, and ironically, the most expensive one i've owned.
 
I have no trouble with someone admitting that their tech guys failed and offering to put it right. But that's not what happened. The amp failed as soon as it got back to me the first time. And I called Creek immediately. That's when Mike Creek suggested my Quad could be at fault. After spending an entire weekend swapping cables round and generally pulling my hair out trying to figure what was wrong - I called again after the weekend, and that was when Luke suggested my voice coil could be blown.
 
Neither of them suggested I send the amp back to be fixed, even though it was displaying the same symptoms as before (speaker buzzing etc). It was only when the EE pulled everything out of the back of the amp and saw it go into protection mode himself, that he said it had to be the amp. Because it was 80% intermittent, I hadn't been able to make it shut off by unplugging everything before. But this time it did.
 
When I spoke to Stone Audio, the guy said that Mike had told him that the guys I sent it to were not really 'fault-finders'.... they built the amps, they didn't fault find. So why was I told to send it there if he knew that??
 
In relation to this comment: Creek claims that: all that was needed to remedy the fault was to re-solder the joins where "the spill" had leaked on to the PCB...
 
... except that there was NO SPILL. It has been verified that there was NO SPILL. And if the fix was so simple, then how come I was told that Mike spent most of the day cleaning up the corrosion and dry joints and leaking whatevers? That's why he sent a photo of it to the tech guys, because it was that bad.
 
I asked the guys for a copy of the photo, but they said they couldn't give it to me. I would have to ask Mike for it. Well, I know what the answer will be to that, so I won't bother.
 
Anyway, the whole experience has put me off Creek forever. If they'd just apologised for the inconvenience and asked for it back when it was shutting down, I wouldn't even have posted this. But instead of acknowledging that their tech guys failed - they made me feel I should be grateful it was fixed free of charge. And this was after the cost I'd incurred to troubleshoot the rest of my set up.
 
The story of the spillage stain is just inexcusable. Spillage isn't covered by warranty, but since it has been established that there was no spillage, it just leaves me with a defective amp.
 
And when Stone Audio said Mike Creek would be happy to warranty his own repair for a few months... I asked Mike, and he simply said: "Are you normally the type of person who fusses about nothing'?. What sort of attitude is that? He was very vague about the stain, and kept repeating that it was 'fixed free of charge'. Luckily, Stone Audio have promised to warranty the repair themselves, but why would Mike not warranty it himself?
 
The implication that I spilled something and caused the fault myself is the reason why I'm annoyed about all this. And having established there was no spillage at all - well... I should have at least received some acknowledgement about that, and I haven't. I only know that Mike Creek changed his mind about the spillage after I talked to Stone Audio - or else I would still be in the dark.

Click to expand...

Well, I believe you. 
 
USG