Hello, i've been a lurker for about 3 months and i have learned a lot about headphones thanks to you guys . Now that i figured out what type of headphone and what characteristics i'm looking for (well sorta), i came to these options...

HD-25 (only have heard the senn sound from a now stolen hd497)
K-271.
HfI-650.

Can anyone give some advice on what headphone should be better for me (since i don't have the them)?.

I already did some searches but i still don't know wich one to get, it'll be a multipurpose headphone... i'll use it mainly for music production/dj mixing and a lot of listening before i get some other open headpone (this is why some other headphones did not made it to my list like the ath900) , so i want a headphone that's not overly analitic, with little coloration yet musical. I'm open to some other recomendations tho...

oh yea, i have don't have a headphone amp (yet...), neither 400 dlls to buy a CD3000 lol.

PD: the more defined the bass, the better.

Haven't heard the HD25 so can't comment there. I used to own the K271's and now own the HFI-650 DVD Edition, gotta say I like the 650 DVD quite a bit better - the soundstage is not as spacious, but in just about every other category I'd give the 650 DVD's the nod, especially in the bass.

So, even after the 271 mods you did, you still ended up getting rid of them and chose the ultrasones?

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I was hoping for a reply from you tyson, thanks for the advise.

Now that the K271 is out... does anybody has / had any experience with the senn's?.

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HD25 ? Yeah, they are very good, great bass and very neutral, a true monitoring phone. IMO a must have for music prod. and DJ. Don't expect wide sounstage or very precise stereo image like with open design, but they are the best closed Senn cans. ( beware don't buy HD25SP, only HD25 or HD25-1 with the head band that split in two pieces).

The only drawback is the high clamping force on the ears ( supra-aural ).
With long hours of use it may be a pain! But you can try loosen the head band between books or something.

Ultrasone´s HFI-650 are really nice headphones. I usually listen to speakers (ALR Jordan Note 3 and a Rega rig) and only got a decent pair of headphones because I ran into them at a local store, for cheap. A/B´ed quickly with the usual suspects from Senn and AKG, but liked the Ultrasones for their attack, their 3dimensionality and their clean reproduction. They are comfortable to wear, fairly rigid and portable. I cant hear much coloration, maybe it accentuates the highs just a bit. However, a decent amp is probably going to take care of that. I listen to a lot of low key music (Norah Jones and lots of jazzy stuff), which needs authority regardless of low volumes. I like my speakers as they allow better allocation of instruments and voices on the soundstage, but the Ultrasones shut out most external noise and allow me to listen in much closer. There are many more details pressed on a CD (especially acoustic music) than I used to believe! Definitely worth a try.

One caveat: After about an hour of listening, some heat builds up under the cups forcing me to take a short break.

Cheers Matt

Funny you posted about the HD25 have not seen many posts on them and just happen to recieve them yesterday. Listened to them at home and on the train as well as walking to work so far they are amazing. Here is my review so far!

They sound amazing but in a different way! They are very bass heavy and mid sound pefect but high's have a bit to be dersired dont get me wrong they sound great and I plan to keep them but if these cans had the mids and bass as they are now with Grado highs they would be the best cans out there. They are very very efficient but not very microphonic. They have very low distortion and are not tiring on the ears. They are a bit uncomfterable but if you stretch the headphones they are barable!

So overall I would say get the HD25 if you need amazing sound isolation, amazing mid and bass and ok high's. I have tried many headphones not the other two mentioned above but others and find them amazing for traveling or were noise is an issue! If background noise is not an issue pick up some grado sr125 or above but then you will need to get an amp. I have tried the HD25 unamped and they sound great but the amp does improve the sound quality a bit!

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Are they new out-of-the-box ? I had the exact same feeling when they were new, where I thought that the highs were cutoff and sibilant, but after about 50 hours that disappeared and got somewhat more laidback... Really, I don't notice the highs for some reason . Also the soundstage improved too, but not as much that it changes to the sound of another headphone.

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I could really use laidback highs because i'm somewhat sensitive to them (gotta stop partying), though i'm not sure if this is good for monitoring, well monitoring electronica at least (this is good for DJing).

Could you describe the bass of the HD25?.

I never tought chosing between 2 headphones from the same category / price range was this hard... if i only i had a chance of trying them... *sigh*.

Yes it would certainly ease your choice considerably. I think the bass is good for a closed can, however just a taaad too much, but only for some music, and when listening to the same music on speakers there seems to be too much bass also. So I would classify theis headphone as very speaker-like in terms of the dynamics. The problem is athat much of the music that exists today has bloated bass, but I listened to some LPs the other day and it was brilliant....

The HD-25 has not got the same characteristics of the HD-497, but has their "old sound", in many people's view, better.

If you want to know how a magazine rated it against others, Audio (german magazine) has made a roundup:

Sennheiser HD-25-1:
70 out of 100 points / ***

AKG K240S:
65 out of 100 points / ***

Ultrasone HFI-650:
55 out of 100 points / **

To compare it to some very debated phones here:

Sennheiser HD-600:
75 out of 100 points / ***

AKG K-1000:
80 out of 100 points / ****

But I really don't know how valuable these ratings are, when they can place the SR-225 by the side of the K-1000, and then just 10 points away from the senn HE60 / HEV70 No reviews for the K271

Just another observation - I have the HFI-650 DVD, it can be a tad sibilant on some recordings, about the same ammount that the K271 could be also. If the 650 Trackmaster has less bass and more treble, I'd have to guess that it would be too brightly balanced for me (and probably for you, based on your statements here).

Of course, neither the K271 or the 650 DVD is in the same class as the Beyer 250-250 for overall sound quality. Very little sibilance for a closed can, strong bass, better defined than anything I've heard, short of the HD600's and Ety 4s.

The only phone I can't comment on properly is the HFI-650. I only heard it once for about 10 minutes in all, at the first and last (so far) London Head-Fi meet.


I liked it a lot, but if defined bass is your thing I think you have two options.


The K271S with a powerful amp would provide a very defined bass. Without an amp or with an amp primarily designed for high impedance amps... not so good. Starting with something like an Earmax Pro, the K271S would give beautiful. quite punchy results. It's comfortable and very isolated.


Unamped there is only one winner and that's the HD25-1. It provides a high resolution sound and a powerful, well defined bass. The best thing about the HD25-1 is the electrical characteristics. It's high impedance but has one of the highest efficiency ratings on the market for general purpose phones. You can use these unamped with even the weakest of portables, and still expect a reasonable response. With reasonably powerful portables or amped, expect a very powerful presence. AS with everything there are compromises, and that's the comfort with the HD25-1. It's quite clamping at first which can be cured by stretching teh phones a bit. It's also supraaural with thick earpads, which means that in Mexico at least you can expect the sweat to be pouring out of your ears slightly quicker than the HFI-650 or the K271S.


(HFI-650 disclaimers as above)
Sound (including bass) definition unamped: HD25, HFI-650, K271
Sound (including bass) definition amped (with META class gear): HFI-650 <> HD25, K271
Sound (including bass) definition amped (with above META class gear): K271, HD25, HFI-650
General 'audiophilic' marking: K271, HFI-650 <> HD25
Sibilance (worst first): HD25, HFI-650, K271
Comfort (Team Titanic Noggin disclaimer, your results may vary): K271, HFI-650, HD25
Portability: HFI-650, HD25, K271

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Thanks, this is helpfull since that's the only "good" headphone i've heard.

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The 250-250 would have made it on my list if it had more isolation.

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So HD25 it is. I'm a little disapointed by it's sibilance, i just hope it's not far more sibilant than the HFI 650, but this will be fixed in the future since i plan to buy a DT880+amp.

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Actually guadalajara is sorrounded by forest, but yeah, Guadalajara has it's hot moths... anyway, i'm planning to move to Mexico city wich is colder than guadalajara so this won't be much of a problem.

dillatortilla,

Welcome to head-fi, well, as a participating member anyway.

I own both the AKG 271 and 650 Trackmaster so I'll try my best to give a summary of my findings. Although I think they are about equal in sound quality-- the 271s have a more balanced sound and have better bass than the Trackmasters while the Trackmasters are more detailed--I think the 271s are a better choice for what you want--a phone with a more musical timbre and less detail.

Sad to say but I find that the Trackmasters too be terribly weak in the bass, much weaker than any other closed phone I've tried in their price range (A900, 271, 250-80, CD1700)--no matter what source (my revolution soundcard, DVD player) and amp (maxed meta, oldschool pioneer integreated amp) I play them out of. The bass of the Trackmasters is there but it is very recessed compared to the rest of the frequency spectrum. Such recessed bass isn't too much of a proble with classical music because you can just pretend that the drums, cellos and such are just further back than the rest of the instruments and are being played very softely but with a phone as expensive as the Trackmasters you shouldn't have to pretend when it comes to any part of the frequency spectrum. For rock or any other genre of music that requires an adequate amount of bass the Trackmasters fail miserably. The Trackmasters are great, though, when it comes to detail--they are the most detailed closed phone I've tried in their price range. However, since you aren't looking for great detail in a phone, for you, this could be taken as a flaw.

In comparision the 271s are a more balanced phone, featuring a better bass response no matter what source or amp. They aren't as detailed as the Trackmasters but their sound is more solid, to me more realistic, while the sound of the Trackmasters just seems too transparent (this is likely influenenced by their deficiency in bass, though). In short I think the 271s are just the more musical because they have a more balanced frequency response. I do still find the 271s to be slightly weak in the bass, though, (even though they have better bass than the Trackmasters) unless they are played from a bass heavy source or amp.

I must say, though, that I'm not in love with either of these phones--I prefer the A900s and CD1700s to both of them and I actually prefer the D66s to even the A900s and CD1700s and they cost much less (only around $90 - $100). Maybe I'm just crazy, but that's what I hear.

As a side note if you are bothered by simbalence I'd advise you to stay away from both the 271 and Trackmasters as I've found them both to be quite simibilant on most recordings I've tried them on. Both of these phones are more prone to simpilance than any other closed phone I have tried in their price range.

Damn i forgot to mention that i'm looking for detail too..., my search for a headphone that has detailed bass doesn't mean that i'm looking for an all-out bass headphone with no detail, (those DT770 are very tempting tho). it's just that the nature of most electronic music genres needs well defined/non recesed bass response.

Those D66 are one of my favorites in the style department, maybe i'll buy them later for portable use... (i already got the headphone bug!))

As for the sibilance, i guess i better get used to it because there is no other closed headphone (i assume) in the price range and level of isolation that does not have sibilance.