Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Computer Audio › Pure Sound, CanZ3d, and software crossfeed for mac
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Pure Sound, CanZ3d, and software crossfeed for mac

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 

I'm interested in trying out a software crossfeed like Canz3D, but getting it to work with itunes seems incredibly complicated.

Any other ideas?  If CanZ3D is totally outdated (the last posts seem to date from 2008), is there something newer that works?

Interested in any add-ons to iTunes or usable alternatives to itunes for mac that would increase SQ.  

 

thanks for any help!


Edited by AVU - 7/13/10 at 12:15pm
post #2 of 15
Thread Starter 

If anyone's interested, I finally downloaded Pure Sound and that made using the Canz3D simple as can be.  Once I had Pure Sound downloaded, I decided to do some ABing with VLC and itunes as well as with Canz3D on and off.  First off, I found that VLC had its own virtualizer, which I hadn't remembered (or didn't look for originally.)  

 

Initial quick impressions surprised me: I found that VLC had a sharpness and detail that itunes lacked.  Itunes was a bit less fatiguing, but I was really impressed by VLC in a way I hadn't expected.  So I happy eat crow about that.  Still not sure what it means for my listening habits, though, as VLC isn't very useful in terms of keeping a music collection.  

 

The other revelation was Pure Sound.  It combines the smoothness and non-fatiguing quality of itunes with the brightness and detail of VLC, and even adds a bit of lushness and depth that VLC didn't have.  I was really not expecting to hear a difference, and was very surprised.  If it was still on sale for $79, I'd buy it now.  It's gone up in price to $129, so I'm going to debate whether it's worth it for a bit more before buying.  It allows you to use the great itunes music management system, but doesn't actually use itunes for playback - but honestly, you can turn it on and just use itunes like normal and forget about it completely, which is great.  

 

I haven't played with the various settings on the spatializers/crossfeeds yet, but VLC's default was much more subtle than Canz3D - it seemed ok, I wasn't swayed one way or the other.  As to Canz3d through Pure Sound, it sounded great for classical, and stupid for pop.  There's no space in pop to reproduce, so it was just artificially creating space which sounded stupid.  For classical, it sounded... wild.  I'm not sure I liked it ultimately, but it was really interesting.  Lots of reverb, a big spatial presence I'd never heard through headphones at all, and certainly not iems.  Brought the mids forward a lot, and took the instrumants miles apart.  But I did ultimately feel that it was degrading/transforming the sound quality of the instruments in such a way as to take the 'edge' off them - the timbre wasn't as clear.  But for $10, I'll probably buy it if I buy Pure Sound to try on occasion.  It is very interesting, and I'm sure with the parameters toned down, it could be fantastic for classical or live recording. 

post #3 of 15

Thx AVU for sharing your experience.

 

Inside Pure Music (and not Pure Sound), I can't open the settings panel of Canz3D. Can you ? Using Canz3D without the setting window is pointless, it is like activating an EQ without knowing its tuning and having the possiblity to change it. That would explain why you think VLC crossfeed functionnality is more subtle thant Canz3D (which is not !). 

 

I don't think Canz3D is outdated, at least on mac where it remains the only proper solution to my knowledge. It does a really good job on my computer, I use it with jackpilot and AU Lab like it is explained in this post. I have to admit it is a little bit annoying to set up though.

 

post #4 of 15
Thread Starter 


Sorry, yes, I meant Pure Music.  And although I love that program, no, it will not let you access the Canz3D parameters without a complex workaround. I hadn't bothered for a time, because I found 112db's Redline Monitor, which was much better sounding and easier to use.  But boy don't they know it - they charge $100 for the software plugin.  I loved it for the 2 months trial period, but can't cough up the money yet, so I'm back to Canz3D.  I just use it in PLAY - it's a better than itunes, sounds very similar to Pure Music (though perhaps a tiny bit inferior, not sure, very subtle) and is FREE.  It lets you access all the parameters without a workaround.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nilebma View Post

Thx AVU for sharing your experience.

 

Inside Pure Music (and not Pure Sound), I can't open the settings panel of Canz3D. Can you ? Using Canz3D without the setting window is pointless, it is like activating an EQ without knowing its tuning and having the possiblity to change it. That would explain why you think VLC crossfeed functionnality is more subtle thant Canz3D (which is not !). 

 

I don't think Canz3D is outdated, at least on mac where it remains the only proper solution to my knowledge. It does a really good job on my computer, I use it with jackpilot and AU Lab like it is explained in this post. I have to admit it is a little bit annoying to set up though.

 

post #5 of 15


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVU View Post
  I just use it in PLAY - it's a better than itunes, sounds very similar to Pure Music (though perhaps a tiny bit inferior, not sure, very subtle) and is FREE.  It lets you access all the parameters without a workaround.  

 

Great ! I didn't know that PLAY software and it works great with Canz3D. Aaah ! No more JackPilot set up everytime I want crossfeed ! Thx a lot AVU !

post #6 of 15

I use Canz3d with Neutrino... seamless integration by the way...

post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 

just tried Neutrino for fun.  Can't recommend it on sound quality versus Play or Pure Music.  Sounds muted and a bit fuzzy.  Of course, it's got tons of effects if you need those, so it's really a different kind of app - more for production than playback.

 

Actually, having switched back and forth amongst all these various options for a while now, I've come to realize that I'm not such a fan of crossfeed afterall.  

 

Maybe if I still had the 112db Redline monitor, I'd feel differently - I liked that - but after the trial period ended, I didn't cough up the $100 for it, and decided to go with the $10 Canz 3D instead.  It's ok - for some tracks, I like it.  But the more I play with it, the more I realize that the effects it's giving are coming at cost of different forms of detail that it takes away.  And while the reverb adds a certain spatiality to the sound, it takes away the spatiality of the original L/R, which might not sound like it's supposed to through speakers, but it does sound better than the blending through CanZ.  

 

My recommendation would be to go with PLAY and CanZ3d if you want to mess around with crossfeed and see if you like it.  Only $10 total.  Without Canz, Play is quite good.  

 

For overall sound quality though, I haven't found anything that beats Pure Music and it's only about $130.  But there's a free demo.  It's perfectly integrated with itunes.  It's a keeper for me.

 

***UPDATE***

 

I just downloaded the latest update from Amarra, and I'm blown away. Wow.  I'm not 100% sure, there are little differences, but I'm pretty certain I can say that even the Amarra Mini beats Pure Music.  The bass definition and size and clarity is just astounding, and the rest of the spectrum is tight and controlled, airy, just very, very nice.  Ah, but I see it is $270 or twice the price of Pure Music.  Hmm.  Off to test the Jr version for $79.

 

new update - 

 

well, that didn't take that long.  The Amarra Jr version is CLEARLY INFERIOR to the Amarra Mini.  What a shock - their $79 product is not as good as their $270 product.  But somehow I was hoping it would be, because I'm not going to be spending $270 anytime soon.  

 

Going between Amarra Jr and Pure Music, it's also no contest - PURE MUSIC BY A MILE.  So what we've got it capitalism at it's finest: you get what you pay for.  $79 amarra jr is worst, $130 pure music is MUCH better, $270 amarra mini is about the same as Pure Music, maybe a tiny bit better, and who cares about Amarra full at $700?  Probably best of all, but I'm not buying it.  

 

So I'd recommend that anyone who hasn't tried anything but iTunes, do yourself a favor and get PLAY - it's free, and it's a million times better than itunes.  But if you're willing to spend some money, skip Amarra Jr and get Pure Music for the $50 more.  It's MUCH better.  If you've got the money for more than that, you can test for yourself ;)

 


Edited by AVU - 12/5/10 at 10:46pm
post #8 of 15

  Thank you a lot AVU for your extensive impressions.

 

I am actually just looking for a suitable crossfeed plug in to make some experiments my self in OS X, and Canz3D seem to be just the right tool. I am also a very happy licensed user of Pure Music. However, I will probably rather follow you recommendation and use Play with Canz3D to start with, as it easily allows for fine tuning of the different parameters. I am curious to see what the crossfeed adds and takes away in the listening experience through headphones. I do not see myself however listening all types of music with crossfeed on as you said.

 

EDIT: wow, this 112db redline monitor software seem a real killer. AVU, do you know if it integrates well with Pure Music, i.e. do you have access to parameters settings from Pure Music ? Thanks


Edited by shamu144 - 12/18/10 at 3:07pm
post #9 of 15

I just wanted to give some initial impressions to contribute to the thread.

 

I finally decided to go for the 112dB crossfeed software with 2 months free demo (fully functional, great ! ), and use it as audio plugin in Pure Music. Integrates perfectly, and you get access to the different parameters and can hear their effects on the fly. Fantastic. The 112dB software also works on PC (any Foobar users willing to try ?)..

 

Still early to make a thorough assessment of the crossfeed impact (plus and minus if any). All I can say is that it is an eye opener. The impact is not subtle at all... Actually, it is pretty much a huge slap in your face when you activate it for the first time. I am still fine tuning the parameters to find the set up that best suit me. Good thing is that I feel you can have only one configuration and be perfectly happy with all your music, wathever the type of recordings (live, studio, etc....). Bad thing is that I am affraid I won't be able to live without, even if that seem still very early to say...

 

I will report back further impressions.


Edited by shamu144 - 12/18/10 at 3:09pm
post #10 of 15

I tried 112db redline monitor with pure music and I found the way to change the different parameters really intuitive and fun (in comparison with Canz3d). However, exept from this UI upturn, it does not sound better than Canz3D to me. What do you think ? Maybe the "center" parameter is more subtle that the one in Canz3D ("live") wich adds a lot of bass. But there is ways to limit this effect in Canz3d by playing with others parameters. 

 

Indeed, an advantage of Canz3D is that it offers a lot of parameters. It is certainly confusing at the begining, but when I started to understand how it works (it took me some time), I progressively defined some presets which i am now happy with. I can't really explain why a presets sounds better, it depends on a lot of things, such as your headphone, type of music, encoding quality, etc....  I just feel that sometime a preset is not appropriate and change it. For example when sound engineers use "crosstalk" effect on a tune (exageration of the seperation between the two channels, for ex in Rose parade by Elliot Smith between the two guitars), a strong crossfeed preset would result in a lack of musicality, then i use a preset that lower crossfeed on medium & high frequency.

 

 

 

 

 

post #11 of 15

tried VNP? there's a MAC version too: http://vellocet.com/software/VNoPhones.html

 

I've tried all the xfeed plugins I could find on PC, and this is by far my favorite...it's extremely subtle and hardly colors the sound, enough to make my brain not feeling half-deaf...which is all I'm asking for.

 

The anechoic room simulation in 112dB Monitor feels kinda weird.

post #12 of 15

ToneBoosters Isone offers a VST version for Macintosh.  There is a thread floating around here about Isone someplace.  It remains my favorite.  I don't dial in much room simulation, I'm pretty much using the near field preset with the reverb and room size dialed back a hair.

 

And I'm with leeperry on the 112db monitor.  If Isone didn't exist I'd use pretty much any vanilla crosfeed implementation over 112db. 

post #13 of 15

I've experimented with several of the same xfeed plugins... you can access and adjust Canz3D parameters in Fidelia, but I'm beginning to prefer the Flux Stereo Tool over Canz3D (plus, it's free).

post #14 of 15

Richiyaado Im using Fidelia + Canz3d, but I get some songs that saturates and distorts specially the midbass, as example "if i ever feel better" by phoenix (flac).  I have a natural tone preset based on the documentation docs... but I get distorsion only when using canz3d, if I by pass it its not there. Most of the time is not present but in certain songs is TOO evident. Do you have the same issues?

 

 

post #15 of 15

It seems I solved it, its the gain level for the master and speaker combination, it must be set below 0 dB, I'll keep testing.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Computer Audio
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Computer Audio › Pure Sound, CanZ3d, and software crossfeed for mac