hello
I am new around here and I have been lurking for some time now.

well here's the question. Is the R10 reasonable?

Many of you might consider the Stax Omega II reasonable, but im thinking that this headphone might be good considering that it is well made and it sounds good (according to some head-fi members), and the price can also go as low as $3k ( www.eifl.co.jp). The problem is that, considering the competition the R10 has(Omega II, L3000, Edition7) will it still be able to compete, does the R10 have something the other hi-end headphones dont?


Thanks

Since no one has yet heard the Edition7 or the L3000, no one can answer for you the question of how the R10 compares. In the world of current dynamic headphones, IMO, the R10 is not just "a little better" than the the HD600s, RS-1s, CD3000s, and W2002s, but A LOT better. They are special headphones, masterpieces of the headphone arts.

Is that difference worth the extra $$$? Only you can answer that question, it's a value judgement and inherently a personal question.

One advantage of the R10 over the Omegas is the easy availability of any number of fine headamps you can use to help make them sound their best to your ears. With the Omegas you have the two Stax models and a couple home-brewed amps that can be custom made for you, and that's it.

My advice is to read the R10 reviews and Omega reviews and try to decide which one appears to have the sound you want.

You can buy a pair of Stax Omega II headphones for around $1500 and have them in your possession within a week. Prices for a pair of new R10 ranges from about $2500 to $4000 and there may be a long wait. It is unlikely that you'll see a cheap pair of R10s for sale.

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yes, the most expensive price tag.

r10 is a really nice headphone, but that doesn't mean it's priced anywhere near realistic. i feel that the grado hp-1000 is superior. carlo/zanth/kelly vs. markl/hirsch. i suggest reading reviews from each "team" and see which one you side with.

hp-1 is very transparent and the most neutral thing i have ever heard. they are very detailed and have virtually no soundstage, but instead layer notes together inbetween your ears. the sound heard is everything from the recording. there is no attempt to recreate a speaker or anything in the sound, just what is there in the recording. some people find this "boring" because in my opinion either: a) their equipment sucks or b) they prefer a colored sound.

r10 is very colored and seductive, but far from transparent. the bass doesn't seem to extend as deep, and the sound overall is warm. they resolve detail very well however, and throw a sort of 3d soundscape. they are also extremely comfortable. however, they cost at least three times what a pair of hp-1000's will cost you. personally, i'd rather spend the extra $2k+ on a source or amp, but that's just me.

of course, hp-1000's are hard to find (though there is a _gorgeous_ mint pair for sale in the forum right now) and for around $3k one can get stax omega 2's and a gilmore solid-state amp built (depending on options and builder, of course). i find this to be the best sound i've ever heard, but the gilmore hybrid amp is supposed to be better. i've heard the stax 007t amp a couple of times, and i think it sucks in comparison.


so anyway, to answer your original question "is the r10 reasonable?" i'd have to say no. the price is just too ridiculous for what you get, in my opinion. however, if you could maybe find a used pair for $1k, i'd say go for them.

1. Haven't heard the Grado HP1000, have never commented on how they might sound, I have no idea. Really, not all that curious, though.

2. Have only heard the Omega 2 in a meet setting (worst possible conditions), which is why I limited my comments to "dynamic phones". Still, the Senn Orpheus impressed me a lot more than Omega 2 at first blush. It would require an in-home extended audition for me to draw any firm conclusions about the Stax.
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Wow, now there are two big mis-statements for sure. My assumption is that grinch has only had the chance to audition the R10 at meets. I've owned them for almost two years. Compared to to CD3000/HD600/RS-1/W2002, the R10 is by far the LEAST "colored". They are incredibly natural, "real" awesomely "transparent" and life-like. Quote:



Yet they aren't "transparent"? How do they manage that trick?
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I ain't on anybody's "team". I like what I like, and report what I hear.

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i really don't get how hearing something at a meet can be the "worst possible [condition]" for auditioning anything. wouldn't the worst possible be not being able to hear the component at all? yes, i feel that's much worse than hearing a headphone at a meet.

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aren't you one of those "everybody hears differently!" people? how can my statements be false if this is what i've heard?

being able to hear the r10 at meets is why i know that they are overpriced. whether i had them in my home for two weeks or six months, this is how i would feel. i've listened to them extensively at meets, with amps that i knew, with my cables and in my setup. just because i didn't spend the ridiculous amount of money needed to buy a pair, does not mean that i haven't heard them "properly."

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i guess transparency = detail. and here i was, thinking transparency was about more than that: neutrality, signatures, and tonal balance, among other things. i never thought of it that way. shout it from the mountain top: if a headphone is detailed, it's transparent!

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i was just trying to name a couple of hp-1000 and r10 owners that prefer one headphone over another.

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Do I really even need to reply? I doubt even you believe that listening at a meet in a noisy crowded unfamiliar environment with all those distractions for a very short period could compare to having it in your own home for as long as you'd like. I mean, really!
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Let's contrast this appeal to this statement you made earlier in the thread:
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So, when it comes to bashing the HP1000, it's not a matter of "people hearing differently", rather, they must be deaf dummies with crappy equipment!
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That's your own personal value judgement, which is fair because the original poster is asking for this kind of subjective feedback. Others feel differently, however. It should aslo be pointed out that the thread-starter is asking to compare the $2500-$3000 R10s with other $2500 headphones. He seems to be in a position to afford any one he wants. Maybe for you no headphone could justify a $3K sticker price, others feel differently.
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"Transparency" means just that-- it's the difference between looking through a totally immaculately clean window at the view outside, and looking through a muddy, warped, smudged and foggy pane. That dirty window will obscure detail, the clean and clear one lets it all through. That is the definition of "transparency".

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i think grinch is right here. the detail comes from the clear view of the window, that's right, but everyday can look different through that clean window.

from my experience with less good cans, i find that each sound product presents its new little laws of connection/disconnection between concepts and terms.
even if it follows the audiophile dictionary, i don't think that you can just say detail = transparancy. for instance, if you take the R10 and listen to 2 different amps, which supply the same amount of detail to your ears, but have different tonal balance, one seems more colored then the other, are both equaly transparent?

I think you should buy some cd3k's, and put a piece of scotch tape over the label.

Next, very carefully write "R10" on the tape with a sharpie.


Enjoy.

.

Reading this thread I have to say that I put more faith in grinch's opinion given that he has at least heard both headphones he has a basis for comparison. As far as considering the R-10 colored, that does seem to be the consensus of opinions I have seen posted. I own the HP-1 but I've never heard the R-10 so I don't have any feeling on how it compares or it's value, it could be worth every pennny of it's asking price!

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gpalmer, I haven't expressed any opinion about the Grado HP phones or the Stax Omega, I have very clearly stated that I haven't heard them. It's entirely possible that if I had the chance to audition the Omega 2 in my home, I could end up liking them better than the R10, but it's equally likely that I would not.
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Huh?

Hi guys,

if you remember my headphones 's amp history for the R10 you see that the "problem" of this cans (i know of each cans...) but especially for the R10, is to find an amp that really gives to them the power, the quality and the perfect match. My last Angstrom is the result of the very long history researching the best for the best.

The R10 is one of the best dynamic cans ever made, and this I believe everyone agree... about the price you must consider that the object is no more in a currently production... the AT W2002 that I bought for my brother, just two mounts after the last exemplare was in the market, I paid 1500 $...

I think that if you think to love the R10 more tha any other cans, you can to find the money to buy them, if not you do not need to judge who do that.

About neutrality, well in this point I have no doubt: the Omega is the first place between all the cans I had (even considered the HP1)... no doubt!

About the colored aspect of the R10, now, after the Omega arrived in my house, I think yes, the R10 add something to the recording that the Omega do not do. I don't telling that the Omega is "analytical", is just "desappeared" more than the R10 (as Markl said ). The advantage of the Stax is to come with a dedicated amp calibrated for them for the best result. I have the two cans in my house, I can to listen how much I want the two systems, I do not have any "team"... I only desire to tell to my friends what I really think about these two fantastic headphones. point!

Best!
Nicola

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what i meen is that there's more to the looks and feeling of each day then the objective clarity you can look through the window on it.
different cans = different days. or something like that..you probably got the point already

nik,
which cans do you find throwing a larger soundstage? to what degree?

(must have the greatest soundstage, must have the greatest soundstage...)

If the R10 has the greatest soundstage... the Omega II has the greatest headstage... what do you prefer? This is the question!

Best!
Nicola