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BHSE or Woo WES?  

post #1 of 155
Thread Starter 
Im beginning to consider changing my GES for one of these comparable babies. What are your views and opinions, if you were going for any of the two , which one would it be?

PLEASE IF YOU VOTE, PLEASE!!! POST THE WHY OF YOUR RECOMMENDATION.

thanks!
post #2 of 155
I can't help you in any way, I can only make it more difficult for you ...

I have been wondering for quite a while why I never hear anything about the Coriolan 2 on this forum, an amp very much in the same category.
The only thing I could find was a thread about the original Coriolan which was twice the price.
The Coriolan 2 is for us Europeans the same price as the BHSE or WES if you count import duties, probably even cheaper.
post #3 of 155
I haven't heard either one but I will compare them at CJ against the T2DIY. I do know the circuits well and for my money there isn't a bad choice to be made here. The BHSE will be more linear since that was the whole point of the T2/BH design plus it is DC coupled so there are no caps in the signal path. The WES is a traditional tube amplifier so it has input/output capacitors plus the stages are all AC-coupled which will give it a warmer tone. Since it is an old school tube amp it will also not have the total immunity to the load present which the BH has going by my experience with the ESX it shouldn't be a big deal.

Bottom line is, what sound are you looking for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleheadMay View Post
I have been wondering for quite a while why I never hear anything about the Coriolan 2 on this forum, an amp very much in the same category.
The only thing I could find was a thread about the original Coriolan which was twice the price.
The Coriolan 2 is for us Europeans the same price as the BHSE or WES if you count import duties, probably even cheaper.
This amp has nothing in common with either the BHSE or WES in terms of performance, just because it costs about the same doesn't mean it isn't an overprice piece of crap (which it is). The Coriolan is just the same old Egmont circuit with parallel output tubes and an abysmal PSU design. This circuit is ancient (1950 or even older) and about as simple as you can make a dual differential amplifier. It also doesn't have anywhere near the power needed to push the modern phones or low enough distortion. On top of that you have the typical Rudistor build quality which simply horrible and couple that with a bias supply which will destroy your phones and you are on to a real winner.

I've now built three versions of this circuit and the only one which was passable used far better output tubes and much higher operating voltages. I also incorporated feedback and other changes to make it anywhere near linear. I also have a PCB design ready where literally anybody can build one of these amps for a lot less then an Exstata.
post #4 of 155
I think WES is also overprice piece, nice sparrow's nest for almost $5k: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/no...ml#post5917795
post #5 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzer View Post
This amp has nothing in common with either the BHSE or WES in terms of performance, just because it costs about the same doesn't mean it isn't an overprice piece of crap (which it is). The Coriolan is just the same old Egmont circuit with parallel output tubes and an abysmal PSU design. This circuit is ancient (1950 or even older) and about as simple as you can make a dual differential amplifier. It also doesn't have anywhere near the power needed to push the modern phones or low enough distortion. On top of that you have the typical Rudistor build quality which simply horrible and couple that with a bias supply which will destroy your phones and you are on to a real winner.
I know absolutely nothing about an amps design, I was just curious why I couldn't find a thread on the Coriolan 2 here.
I am a bit amazed though on what you say about the Rudistor build quality, I am actually considering buying one of his amps.
But I don't want to hijack this thread, mind if I send you a PM?
post #6 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_sure View Post
I think WES is also overprice piece, nice sparrow's nest for almost $5k: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/no...ml#post5917795
If you describe that as a sparrow's nest, I'm curious to hear what you would classify a Singlepower amp as.
post #7 of 155
You do understand that Woo amps by design are point to point wired right?
post #8 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_sure View Post
I think WES is also overprice piece, nice sparrow's nest for almost $5k: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/no...ml#post5917795
Did you hear it?
post #9 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_sure View Post
I think WES is also overprice piece, nice sparrow's nest for almost $5k: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/no...ml#post5917795
First off, that is a prototype which will always be messy compared to production amps. Second, that's far from a "nest" of any kind, it's actually rather neat with proper care taken to keep filament wiring away from the signal path and all parts are properly secured at both ends. Personally I prefer to star wire everything which looks messier but should perform better (less connections and less impedance) but the difference should be minor. Check out the ES-1/2 link in my signature if you want to see crappy wiring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleheadMay View Post
I know absolutely nothing about an amps design, I was just curious why I couldn't find a thread on the Coriolan 2 here.
I am a bit amazed though on what you say about the Rudistor build quality, I am actually considering buying one of his amps.
But I don't want to hijack this thread, mind if I send you a PM?
Feel free to PM me.
post #10 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_sure View Post
I think WES is also overprice piece, nice sparrow's nest for almost $5k: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/no...ml#post5917795
Did you like it when you listened to it?
post #11 of 155
I voted WES, so you can sell it to me cheap after two weeks when you will suddenly realize you actually wanted the BHSE.

I hope Justin doesn't have remote detonation capability installed in his amps.
post #12 of 155
I voted for the WES on, frankly, not much evidence - all based on what I've read. I'm looking to change to BHSE or WES from my SRM-007t.

I chose the WES primarily because of it's allegedly warmer sound. I like a darker sound than most, so I'm not sure how I'd handle the treble boost that the BHSE will apparently give compared to my 007t.

Secondary reasons:

The WES has a standby switch, which I hope will increase life of the output tubes whilst the rest of the amp is kept ready to rock in an instant.

The WES uses less power (105w v 155w from memory) and runs cooler (case temperature). Now, the fact the BHSE's use of it's case as a heatsink may be a perfectly fine design, but I'd probably worry about it anyway.

Both of them look good. I'd love to have the chance to see/hear them in real life.
post #13 of 155
If you want anything reasonably soon then WES should be the choice. I paid the deposit for a BHSE to HeadAmp 20 months ago and paid fully 6 months ago (incl. shipping). Justin then told that it should be shipped soon. I have no idea when it will arrive.
post #14 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAttorney View Post
The WES has a standby switch, which I hope will increase life of the output tubes whilst the rest of the amp is kept ready to rock in an instant.
The BHSE also has a time delay which allows the tubes to warm up before the plates are hit with the full B+ voltage. Personally I don't believe this is needed with the voltages we are working with here but it can hardly hurt. Regardless of this the tubes will last for years and years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAttorney View Post
The WES uses less power (105w v 155w from memory) and runs cooler (case temperature). Now, the fact the BHSE's use of it's case as a heatsink may be a perfectly fine design, but I'd probably worry about it anyway.
The BHSE draws in excess of 200W, same as a fully spec'ed traditional BH. Now the WES may not have the CCS and the heatsinks that go with it but the tubes are still highly biased and will get rather hot along with the plate resistors. Since those aren't attached to the chassis the heat transfer will be slower but something like my ESX does get pretty hot after a while (main plate resistors are attached to the chassis though). The BH still wins the space heater award though and the new T2DIY goes even further.
post #15 of 155
Just the 4 x 6ca7's filaments take (6.3 * 1.5 *4) 37 watts.
Then the 4 plate loads (does not matter, resistor or current source) take
an additional 32 watts. Then the tube plates take another 32 watts.
So just that part of the circuit takes 100 watts.

On the GES, the rectifiers use 5 volts at 3 amps each, another 30 watts.

On the GES, the 4 x 6sl7 use an additional 7.5 watts. Plus plate power.

By the time you add the efficiencys of the transformers you are at about 150 watts,
same as the BHSE.

My diyT2 takes about 240 watts.
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