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How much does the power cable really do? - Page 8

post #106 of 208
OK, it is like this. If you don't trust someone else make your own. It does not take rocket science to know how a power cable works in audio system. If you have a cheap consumer audio rig, you may not get the full benefits of and audio grade power cable. If you do not learn the metallurgy involved you will not learn the benefits of a power cable, if you do not learn the benefits of the different symmetry's you understand the potential of the power cable. I can go on and on. The first question I would ask myself, would my gear benefit from upgrading power cables? If not, leave them alone. If so, purchase them if you can't build them enjoy them, if not sell them. What is so hard? I don't understand? You can't say that all power cables are a fraud. If you can't hear a difference great. But don't speak for me. I have a rig that is easy to tell the difference in power cables and interconnects. I have cables that have been made by reputable Manufacturers Like PS Audio and Grado. I prefer the ones I have made at the moment. Doesn't mean I do not like stuff like the Oyaide Tunami cable.
Learning about power cables is like anything else, trial and error. You can read all you want. You will never know how it sounds until it is plugged to your gear.
post #107 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterlogic View Post
If you hear a difference - it is your imagination
Exactly. That is the very core of the problem, people won't believe it is their imagination.

Audio enthusiasts tend to think human perception is flawless. ThereĀ“s the moon illusion right there for everyone to "open their eyes" (quite literally) about how our own senses and cognition can fool us so miserably. There's cognitive science and critical thinking to instruct on the many cognitive biases that our cognitive machinery tends to fall for. There's that which must not be named (whose acronym starts with a D, followed by a B, and ends with a T) to identify when and where those biases are in place playing tricks on us. Yet, it is really a personal decision in the end, for anyone to be willing to mistrust his/her own personal judgement in order to live outside of lies. Apparently quite too many people don't mind living in lies, even if it costs $$$$ for nothing.
post #108 of 208
So you are saying an Power Cable that is made with 14AWG copper wire with copper plugs sounds the same with as a power cable made with 14AWG pure silver wire with silver plugs. Really you have listen to these cables and know for sure it is just imagination? If someone has an all silver cable I would like to borrow it for the next Seattle meet to see what the Head-fiers think?
post #109 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG POPPA View Post
OK, it is like this. If you don't trust someone else make your own. It does not take rocket science to know how a power cable works in audio system. If you have a cheap consumer audio rig, you may not get the full benefits of and audio grade power cable. If you do not learn the metallurgy involved you will not learn the benefits of a power cable, if you do not learn the benefits of the different symmetry's you understand the potential of the power cable. I can go on and on. The first question I would ask myself, would my gear benefit from upgrading power cables? If not, leave them alone. If so, purchase them if you can't build them enjoy them, if not sell them. What is so hard? I don't understand? You can't say that all power cables are a fraud. If you can't hear a difference great. But don't speak for me. I have a rig that is easy to tell the difference in power cables and interconnects. I have cables that have been made by reputable Manufacturers Like PS Audio and Grado. I prefer the ones I have made at the moment. Doesn't mean I do not like stuff like the Oyaide Tunami cable.
Learning about power cables is like anything else, trial and error. You can read all you want. You will never know how it sounds until it is plugged to your gear.
Looks you are in cable business, my friend also sells them among other high-end electronics & speakers .
For his private chain cca 45 000 $ (speakers are 30000$ Shahinian Diapasons), he uses stock speaker cable with banana terminals, stock wire interconnects with Eichman terminals, stock power cables. He is familiar with all possible "tweaks" and well aware of all ridiculous nonsense and voodoo b------t.
He never suggests his customers to buy fancy cabling, but when they do buy them (because they look really nice) he is glad because the margins are over 60% with such ""high-tech"" fancies ...
post #110 of 208
Here's a very educational video on open-mindedness vs. close-mindedness:

YouTube - Open-mindedness

PS. And as an addendum, the list of cognitive biases in Wikipedia.
post #111 of 208
For the price of the cable who cares what the mark up is? If you don't feel comfortable dealing what that company don't buy it. You really can't say all cable company's are like this? I'm sure there are a few but for some reason I have stayed away from them building relationships with reputable retailers. Like anything you just have to know who you are doing business with. No big deal.
post #112 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by fzman View Post
This seems like a compelling consideration, and seems like it really is correct. However, if you consider the facts-- it is really not true in the way that it is intended- as an appeal to "authority", so to speak.

1. we mostly have no idea who the internet pundit is-- and what their actual knowledge/experience/agenda really is.
2. said pundit has no responsibility incurred by giving "advice" on the net.
3. retailer is known, and has something at stake-- reputation. most businesses rely heavily on repeat business and word of mouth- if you screw people you forfeit both. any retailer that stands behind his products and offers a money-back return policy has more at stake, and is actually taking responsibility for his/her actions. the internet "expert" is simply typing words on a keyboard.

Researching online is only part of the data you should amass. Trying things for yourself is at least equally important.
1. When it comes to cable sellers, oftentimes we don't know what their actual knowledge/experience is either. They may spout facts, but there's no way of really knowing of those facts affect sound unless they're studied. And the cable seller is just spouting those facts to sell cables. Look at Virtual Dynamics and that thread with the kitty cat and the garden hose cable. VD pretty much flat out said that they don't know why what they do with their cables makes a difference, but that "it does".

3. The point about reputation is almost moot when it comes to audio equipment. Until it's found out that the seller is lying, their reputation remains. In many markets it happens quickly. A blender doesn't blend the way it's supposed to, a computer crashes or overheats, pencil lead is actual lead and toxic, etc. In audio it takes a lot longer for the truth to come out, provided a few things. You tell someone they can hear a difference, then they're happy. It doesn't have to actually make a difference, and if the buyer is convinced reputation remains or even grows. If the build quality is good (easy enough to do when charging so much for wire), and if the customer service is helpful (easy enough when selling on a small scale as audio often is), only research will really tarnish the reputation. I mean, look at the power cable market now. Even though so many people don't believe in it (and thus unsatisfied), the market remains and individual retailers do fine. But once word gets out about build quality (use VD as an example again)...

Is #2 a distinct point? I kind of lump it into #3 because the seller's responsibility is closely tied to reputation. If reputation isn't threatened, their only responsibility is to try to sell more cables.

Wow rsaavedra, I'm reading through those biases now. So far almost all of them apply to audiophiles. Especially bandwagon effect and expectation bias.
post #113 of 208
Sorry but this is SCIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIENCE, ergo everything rsaavedra says is true. Try to be more open-minded and realize that everything contrary to what he and waterlogic believe is wrong.
post #114 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by haloxt View Post
Sorry but this is SCIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIENCE, ergo everything rsaavedra says is true. Try to be more open-minded and realize that everything contrary to what he and waterlogic believe is wrong.
I wouldn't go that far, but I'm certainly more willing to believe them than someone who just tries to troll the non-believers out of the thread.
post #115 of 208
That's like saying you like a certain color insect better than another color insect.
post #116 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by haloxt View Post
That's like saying you like a certain color insect better than another color insect.
No, that's like saying I like music more than noise. One makes more sense and sounds a lot better.
post #117 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Head Injury View Post
Wow rsaavedra, I'm reading through those biases now. So far almost all of them apply to audiophiles. Especially bandwagon effect and expectation bias.
Most definitely. But to be fair, in fact all of them apply to all human beings, audiophiles certainly among them.
post #118 of 208
Cables definately make a sound difference. Is it always better.......NO.
Is the more expensive cable always the better cable for your system..........NO.
I never heard AC power cord comparisons yet, so i dont know about them. Its a different concept than interconnects and speaker cables.

I have a Tara RCA Interconnect here, and you can definately hear a difference when its in the line. It muddies up my system when i use it. People usually use that cable on systems that are too forward and bright.

I dont think short 4 inch portable mini to mini cables make a difference because theyre too short to impart enough characteristics into the sound, or maybe my hearing isnt good enough to hear the very slight difference.
On portables i use a RadioShack $5 grey cable, even though i do have a few more expensive cables.
post #119 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drag0n View Post
Cables definately make a sound difference. Is it always better.......NO.
Is the more expensive cable always the better cable for your system..........NO.
I never heard AC power cord comparisons yet, so i dont know about them. Its a different concept than interconnects and speaker cables.

I have a Tara RCA Interconnect here, and you can definately hear a difference when its in the line. It muddies up my system when i use it. People usually use that cable on systems that are too forward and bright.

I dont think short 4 inch portable mini to mini cables make a difference because theyre too short to impart enough characteristics into the sound, or maybe my hearing isnt good enough to hear the very slight difference.
On portables i use a RadioShack $5 grey cable, even though i do have a few more expensive cables.
Really! WOW, because of your "evidence", I as a newbie have been convinced by your statement to part with $50,000 for a power cable.
post #120 of 208
Instead of looking for somebody's else's proof on how power cables work or not. Create your own proof. Best way to know for sure? At it would be really cool if others were there to check out you findings? Get multiple posts from other head-fiers. That would be cool!
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