Charles Hansen of ayre thinks ALL processors and receivers are subpar.

Feb 26, 2010 at 7:26 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 37
SB

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AVS Forum - View Single Post - Ayre DX-5 bluray player

Quote:

But there is no HDMI D/A converter on the planet that sounds even half as good as the analog outputs of the DX-5.

So if the customer only wants it for movies, that is a great plan. For years we have all been listening to 5.1 channels of low-bit-rate MP3, and it has been just fine. The visuals make the sound quality less important for watching movies.

Until someone makes an SSP with Audio Rate Control, discrete analog circuitry, and volume controls at least as good as our $3500 preamp (FET switches and metal film resistors), then anybody who listens to music even once in a while shouldn't mind spending a couple of thousand dollars extra for great music playback.

And they will be still be saving money. To make an SSP with the features noted above would probably cost $25,000 or more. Why spend that much money to get eight channels of incredible sound when eight channels of pretty good sound is all you need for movies? Then you can save your money for where it counts -- those two channels of music playback.


Wait, his "opinions" get worse.



AVS Forum - View Single Post - Ayre DX-5 bluray player

Quote:

Yes, but where does the blame lay? I say with the SSP's that butcher the incoming analog signal in countless ways.

And how good will the HDMI connection actually sound? HDMI has far worse jitter than S/PDIF. We have never made a DAC with S/PDIF because it is a flawed format that inevitably degrades the sound quality of the signal. You can read more about this topic in this white paper:


Until such an SSP exists, the only way to get truly high performance music reproduction is to use the analog outputs of the DX-5 (or other single-box player) into a stereo preamp that has a processor passthrough mode. This will serve 99.99% of all music available today.


Of course he does not explain why, since he has not even measured the jitter in the DX-5 he is just blowing hot air.



AVS Forum - View Single Post - Ayre DX-5 bluray player

Quote:

c) Nearly all existing SSP's are "flawed" because due to cost and space constraints, they use high-feeback op-amps in the audio signal path and single-chip op-amp-based IC volume controls. There are a few exceptions. The Theta Casablanca uses a system of FET switches and metal film resistors for its volume control. I believe (but am not sure) that the audio signal path is fully discrete, although it also uses feedback. The Levinson No.40 has a different kind of volume control. I believe (but am not sure) that it is the MDAC style of volume control that they used to use in their No.38 preamp. I am unsure of the other details of the No.40's design. The original version was released shortly before the company imploded. I have heard snippets that the version put back into production a couple of years later had some changes.

b) One can take a jittery signal, such as HDMI or S/PDIF, and by throwing money at it, reduce the level of jitter. The more money you throw at it, the lower you can get the jitter. Theta has been building digital products for over 20 years and has some of the best jitter-reduction circuitry around.

But, as I said before, that is just a guess.


Sorry charles but it looks like everything you have said is a guess.



AVS Forum - View Single Post - Ayre DX-5 bluray player

Quote:

The final thing to consider is that (to the best of my knowledge) Ayre is still the only company that provides total isolation between the video and audio systems. That is one feature that is very unlikely to ever become common, and yet it remains one of the most important determinants of system performance (both audio and video).


To his knowledge, looks like to me charles needs to do some more reading.
 
Feb 26, 2010 at 7:26 PM Post #2 of 37
AVS Forum - View Single Post - Ayre DX-5 bluray player

Quote:

Maybe we will build a "transport" version someday. But only when someone (I guess it will be up to us, as nobody else seems to be willing...) offers a video switcher/scaler that offers galvanically isolated audio outputs and an SSP with the above features. Otherwise, what would be the point?


AVS Forum - View Single Post - Ayre DX-5 bluray player

Quote:

In addition, the picture quality of the Ayre should be distinctly better than other players. This is due to both the use of ultra-low noise pure linear power supplies throughout, plus the galvanic isolation between the audio and video sections of the unit.


Galvanic isolation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

Galvanic isolation is used in situations where two or more electric circuits must communicate, but their grounds may be at different potentials. It is an effective method of breaking ground loops by preventing unwanted current from travelling between two units sharing a ground conductor. Galvanic isolation is also used for safety considerations, preventing accidental current from reaching the ground (the building floor) through a person's body.


I doubt charles knows what galvanic isolation is and used the term just to sound intelligent.
 
Feb 26, 2010 at 8:29 PM Post #3 of 37
Poor Charles.

I remember when I asked Bruno Putzeys to do some cable distortion measurements in order to check the results of John Curl who had been claiming to have measured diodes in the wires.

Even though Bruno was measuring some 25dB below where John was able to see, no sign of the distortion products John was getting in his measurements was evident.

Charles dismissed Bruno's measurements, saying he seriously doubted that his Audio Precision System Two was capable of doing the same measurements that John was doing (by that he meant capable of notching out the test signal's fundamental before doing the spectral analysis of the residual).

He said he'd owned a System One for ten years and he was damned sure it wasn't capable of it.

I moseyed over to Audio Precision's website, grabbed the System One manual and after perusing it for a few minutes, found that indeed even Charles' System One could do it.

Ten years with the thing and he never bothered to read the manual.

se
 
Feb 27, 2010 at 4:36 AM Post #5 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorcilantro /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Aren't these the same guys who rebadged an Oppo, and marked it up 8K?


No. That was Lexicon.

se
 
Feb 27, 2010 at 4:40 AM Post #6 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorcilantro /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Aren't these the same guys who rebadged an Oppo, and marked it up 8K?

DC


and it was only 3k
wink.gif
 
Feb 27, 2010 at 4:42 AM Post #7 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by SoupRKnowva /img/forum/go_quote.gif
and it was only 3k
wink.gif



Oh yeah, that too. Didn't notice it was an 8.
atsmile.gif


Thanks for the catch.

se
 
Feb 27, 2010 at 4:57 AM Post #8 of 37
What the hell does this avsforum thread have to do with sound science in general, let alone headphones?
 
Feb 27, 2010 at 7:37 AM Post #9 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by anetode /img/forum/go_quote.gif
What the hell does this avsforum thread have to do with sound science in general, let alone headphones?


Because he is rather.... famous.



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Feb 27, 2010 at 2:23 PM Post #10 of 37
There's nothing wrong with what he said about galvanic isolation. Seems to me some emotions are flying off the handle here.

Who is he anyway?
 
Feb 27, 2010 at 5:11 PM Post #12 of 37
Did Charles Hansen run over your dog, Steve? (Or is this account Fake Steve? It gets confusing.)

Anyway, keep it up. Your one-man campaign across every audio site on the Internet will soon succeed in driving Ayre out of business, I'm sure.
 
Feb 27, 2010 at 5:46 PM Post #14 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorcilantro
Aren't these the same guys who rebadged an Oppo, and marked it up 8K?


Yes, they "modded" an oppo and are charging $10,000 for it.

200911_ayre_inside_844w.jpg


Quote:

Originally Posted by anetode
What the hell does this avsforum thread have to do with sound science in general, let alone headphones?


Its to show you what the owners of high end audio companies think and to show you how little they know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0dhi
There's nothing wrong with what he said about galvanic isolation. Seems to me some emotions are flying off the handle here.


He said it just to sound intelligent, galvanic isolation is very basic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hopstretch
Anyway, keep it up. Your one-man campaign across every audio site on the Internet will soon succeed in driving Ayre out of business, I'm sure.


So you support ayre and what charles thinks?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jax
I'm pretty sure Ayre are also using the Oppo guts, but claim to have completely reworked them.


Correct, all ayre did is swap out the power supply and stick in their QB-9 USB DAC with little to no changes.
 
Feb 27, 2010 at 5:48 PM Post #15 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by jax /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm pretty sure Ayre are also using the Oppo guts, but claim to have completely reworked them.


Ayre has a Blue Ray player now?

se
 
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