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Woo Wes or BHSE - Page 2

post #16 of 75
2/14/10 at 7:39am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeymad View Post
Boomana is correct. My experience has been Meet only.

For me with my O2's I have to give the nod to the WES.

BHSE had a huge sound to me, but the soundstage was not as well defined.

WES had soundstage done right for me. Tons of detail and many layers in the presentation.

Nothing I have heard has made me give up my SP ES-1 yet.

Cheers,
Hi Mikeymad, are you saying that I am better of considering pairing the SP ES-1 with the O2 instead of the WES? Not familiar with the SP ES-1 but is the costs comparable?
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post #17 of 75
2/14/10 at 7:49am
^^forget SP (single power). Its out of business and most of its amp is considered unsafe. Those that still own it mostly upgraded it to the safe level. Also its very difficult to find one that is 230v
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post #18 of 75
2/14/10 at 8:16am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post
AFAIK, the BHSE was not designed around any headphone. instead, it was simply built to offer extreme voltage swing around a purely dc-coupled signal path. i could be wrong, though...

also may I ask then, which headphones do you suppose the WES was "designed for"?
HI El Doug, I have been following your thread about your WES closely. After having it the past months have your done indepth listening and if so what is your assessment compared to the other amps eg. GES, KGSS, 717, etc?

Your posts and Darth-nut played a significant part in my decision to acquire an O2 + WES system! I am not sure if I should thank you for this quests... I am sure my wife won't...
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post #19 of 75
2/14/10 at 8:25am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asr View Post
I've heard both amps (on separate sources) but have heard the WES only in audio show conditions (RMAF 2009) so I won't comment further. For the OII, the BHSE might make more sense though as it was designed for them.

Another equally important factor to consider is the source component that you'll be using in this system. You definitely don't want to lessen either the amp or the OII by using a less than stellar source.
Yep, I agree the source will be my next upgrade. I am trying to prolong the excitement of the hunt...

So are you saying that you prefer the BHSE to the WES?
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post #20 of 75
2/14/10 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiga3mata View Post
This is real useful info. I read somewhere that a member had to wait 18months for his BHSE.... while Jack indicated a leadtime of 4 weeks for the WES, definitely food for thought.

DO you have any idea about tube replacement costs for either unit? The WES seem to have a much longer tube list..
The WES has more tubes, which inherently can mean a higher cost for replacement. But for both amps, the replacement costs can have a wide range meaning from a little to a lot of money. It all depends on what tubes you want to use.
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post #21 of 75
2/14/10 at 2:27pm
i'm in a similar position but with HE90 as the phone that will used with either WES or BHSE. How was the WES better than ES1? Thanks a lot. Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeymad View Post
Boomana is correct. My experience has been Meet only.

For me with my O2's I have to give the nod to the WES.

BHSE had a huge sound to me, but the soundstage was not as well defined.

WES had soundstage done right for me. Tons of detail and many layers in the presentation.

Nothing I have heard has made me give up my SP ES-1 yet.

Cheers,
Reply
post #22 of 75
2/14/10 at 3:42pm
Any views on the practical aspects of owning either of these amps?
Like power consumption and warm-up time. I know the BHSE consumes 155watts, but no idea about the WES. I like a fit-and-forget approach, so just on that point the WES appears to have a slight disadvantage simply due to having a lot more tubes than the BHSE.

On the other hand, the WES has a standby option, which I like the idea of for any amp - especially tubed ones. But then I came across this startling piece of advice from the Woo website:

17. Can I leave the amp on whole day long?

Never and never leave your amp on unattended. Due to various reasons such as power supply over-heating or tube failure, your amplifier can cause serious damage. For the safest use, please do NOT exceed maximum 10 hours of play time. Let the amplifier cool down completely for next listening session.

This doesn't quite fit with my fit-and-forget style
I assume Woo is just being ultra cautious, rather than their amps spontaneously bursting into flames as soon as your back is turned!
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post #23 of 75
2/14/10 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiga3mata View Post
This is real useful info. I read somewhere that a member had to wait 18months for his BHSE.... while Jack indicated a leadtime of 4 weeks for the WES, definitely food for thought.

DO you have any idea about tube replacement costs for either unit? The WES seem to have a much longer tube list..
The top of the current BHSE list has been waiting over 18 months. That doesn't predict the wait if you joined now, but it probably is a substantial amount of time.
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post #24 of 75
2/14/10 at 5:06pm
i've heard the WES 3 different times - with the O, O2, and O2mkii. each time i thought it sounded very good but that was about it. i have listened to the BHSE only once at a meet with an O2 and i also heard a DIY BHSE with an O2mkii. both times, i was very impressed - there was a definite wow factor. but i would choose neither. the WES didn't impress me enough for the price and the availability of the BHSE is too uncertain.
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post #25 of 75
2/14/10 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiga3mata View Post
HI El Doug, I have been following your thread about your WES closely. After having it the past months have your done indepth listening and if so what is your assessment compared to the other amps eg. GES, KGSS, 717, etc?
I have not spent any significant time with either of those ss amps. Still, the KGSS never really impressed me as an upgrade to the 717 - they sounded very similar. Granted, in meet conditions, it is exceedingly hard to detect various subtleties of detail and texture. The GES is probably my top choice for 'stat bang-for-the-buck - very similar to the WES, though a bit more rolled off and with a slightly smaller soundstage. Whether these improvements justify spending twice as much money is up to you
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post #26 of 75
2/14/10 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by leberserkfury View Post
i'm in a similar position but with HE90 as the phone that will used with either WES or BHSE. How was the WES better than ES1? Thanks a lot. Dave
I have not heard the HE90 with my WES, but have heard it with the BHSE. In my opinion, the O2's are a far better option for the BHSE, while the HE90's felt much more at home on an HEV90. Something just didnt sound right from the Orpheus headphones out of such a "wire with gain" amp as the BHSE - in fact, it was very distracting, which is never a good thing when listening to music.

The WES is better than the ES1 because, to quote Dr. Gilmore, the WES "won't go archy-sparky like Mikhail's disasters."
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post #27 of 75
2/14/10 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAttorney View Post
Any views on the practical aspects of owning either of these amps?
Like power consumption and warm-up time. I know the BHSE consumes 155watts, but no idea about the WES. I like a fit-and-forget approach, so just on that point the WES appears to have a slight disadvantage simply due to having a lot more tubes than the BHSE.

On the other hand, the WES has a standby option, which I like the idea of for any amp - especially tubed ones. But then I came across this startling piece of advice from the Woo website:

17. Can I leave the amp on whole day long?

Never and never leave your amp on unattended. Due to various reasons such as power supply over-heating or tube failure, your amplifier can cause serious damage. For the safest use, please do NOT exceed maximum 10 hours of play time. Let the amplifier cool down completely for next listening session.

This doesn't quite fit with my fit-and-forget style
I assume Woo is just being ultra cautious, rather than their amps spontaneously bursting into flames as soon as your back is turned!
You will be in much better shape leaving a WES on all day, when compared to the BHSE.

Even after 4 hours (maybe even less) at last spring's NYC meet, the BHSE Justin brought got exceedingly hot. SUPER HOT. Even the volume knob was unpleasant to touch. This is 155 watts out of a rather small chassis. There may have been some design changes to remedy this, however I do not know how much of a fix there really could be, considering the chassis is still small for the amount of heat the amp puts out.

In comparison, I have accidentally left the heaters on my WES turned on for 12 hours, in which case the chassis was barely luke warm. There is simply a ton of aluminum, in a much heavier and larger case, from a circuit that dissipates only 120watts, iirc.

power tubes almost always die before driver tubes, so in both designs you are likely to be replacing the EL34's (same in both amps) at roughly the same time, which would be before any of the 6sl7's died. Keep in mind that, though tube life is unpredictable, you are likely to get at least 5,000 hours out of the driver tubes

if you want "set and forget," perhaps a KGSS is in order?
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post #28 of 75
2/14/10 at 9:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post
I have not spent any significant time with either of those ss amps. Still, the KGSS never really impressed me as an upgrade to the 717 - they sounded very similar. Granted, in meet conditions, it is exceedingly hard to detect various subtleties of detail and texture. The GES is probably my top choice for 'stat bang-for-the-buck - very similar to the WES, though a bit more rolled off and with a slightly smaller soundstage. Whether these improvements justify spending twice as much money is up to you
You bring up an excellent point regarding the law of diminishing returns. Unfortunately, audio is not the only hobby where that law applies. Given the maxxed GES is no more expensive than a SRM-007t, it was an easy decision.

My GES has provided much enjoyment to me. Given this, I don't have any problems spending three times as much for the WES. The GES is a screaming bargain.
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post #29 of 75
2/14/10 at 11:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiga3mata View Post
Hi Mikeymad, are you saying that I am better of considering pairing the SP ES-1 with the O2 instead of the WES? Not familiar with the SP ES-1 but is the costs comparable?
Nope. not saying that at all.. You cannot really order or buy an ES-1, other than used.

My point was more that I really like the sound out of my SP ES-1/tube combo. After listening to the WES and BHSE and RSA A-10, I didn't need to run out and order any of them. None of them was a big enough jump in performance for me to spend the money. If I didn't have an amp I would go with WES.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leberserkfury View Post
i'm in a similar position but with HE90 as the phone that will used with either WES or BHSE. How was the WES better than ES1? Thanks a lot. Dave
Did not listed to HE90 on WES. with O2 WES was better in detail and soundstage/layering.

Cheers,
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post #30 of 75
2/15/10 at 2:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiga3mata View Post
So are you saying that you prefer the BHSE to the WES?
I did not say that I prefer the BHSE over the WES and my post made no such implication either. I said only that the BHSE might make more sense for an OII.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post
You will be in much better shape leaving a WES on all day, when compared to the BHSE.

Even after 4 hours (maybe even less) at last spring's NYC meet, the BHSE Justin brought got exceedingly hot. SUPER HOT. Even the volume knob was unpleasant to touch. This is 155 watts out of a rather small chassis. There may have been some design changes to remedy this, however I do not know how much of a fix there really could be, considering the chassis is still small for the amount of heat the amp puts out.
155 watts does not go out of the BHSE chassis, as you inaccurately claim (whatever that means anyway, as "watts" are a measurement of power and not thermal energy or temperature). Some of the power the BHSE pulls from the wall goes directly towards driving the headphones. But of course not every amp is 100% efficient so some of that power has to be released as heat.

A larger chassis would achieve absolutely nothing except make the amp heavier and bigger. More internal space would help what exactly? You failed to note in your post that the BHSE amp and power supply are both completely ventilated on both their top and bottom panels, and that the amp has two large heatsinks, one on each side. If the amp wasn't ventilated, of course it would make sense for a larger chassis to have been used, but it's completely ventilated, so your point is moot. The fact that the amp does get hot means nothing - the entire chassis is designed to allow complete dissipation of the heat and the parts that get hot are all thick aluminum. Also, while you might think the amp gets "exceedingly hot," I'm sure that Justin thoroughly tested the amp for 100% reliability before he started putting down the finishing touches on the prototype, because what sort of amp designer wouldn't? (Mikhail at Singlepower aside, of course.)
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