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HD800 and T1 musings... - Page 49

post #721 of 939

Xenophon: I don't know if this is helpful or not, but in terms of whether there are audible differences among gear, my opinion is that if there ARE differences, it's easier to discern them with headphones than it is a home speaker system. I found this out with DACs recently. I've typically always been in the camp that DACs don't really make any difference, but I've now revised that opinion based on recent experience. The room is a confounding variable in terms of evaluating gear with a speaker rig, so when you take that out of the equation IMO it's easier to really hear the impact your gear is having on the sound. In a medium sized room, I had to put up over 22 acoustic panels before I felt that I had sufficiently minimized the room's impact on the sound of my audio rig...no such barrier exists with headphones. If I were you, I'd try to spend time auditioning different levels of gear (in terms of price point) to see what sort of results you get since you seem to value the opinion of the amp designer you cited. Just my $.02

post #722 of 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

Xenophon: I don't know if this is helpful or not, but in terms of whether there are audible differences among gear, my opinion is that if there ARE differences, it's easier to discern them with headphones than it is a home speaker system. I found this out with DACs recently. I've typically always been in the camp that DACs don't really make any difference, but I've now revised that opinion based on recent experience. The room is a confounding variable in terms of evaluating gear with a speaker rig, so when you take that out of the equation IMO it's easier to really hear the impact your gear is having on the sound. In a medium sized room, I had to put up over 22 acoustic panels before I felt that I had sufficiently minimized the room's impact on the sound of my audio rig...no such barrier exists with headphones. If I were you, I'd try to spend time auditioning different levels of gear (in terms of price point) to see what sort of results you get since you seem to value the opinion of the amp designer you cited. Just my $.02

You're absolutely right that I should audition of course.  Trouble is, most of the time I'm working/living in New Delhi, India (expat) and trust me, finding a variety of gear let alone a place to audition it is REALLY not possible here.  On the occasions I'm in Europe I usually have very little time available so even though I have a house there I basically only use it to shower, crash and get up next morning at 5 .  But given that the amp and cans together are no pocket change I might indeed do best to dedicate a day to this and make an appointment in a specialist store where I can show up with my present cans as reference point and a USB with classical pieces I know well, then try the T1 and HD800 with various DAC/AMP combos. I value the opinion of the designer of the O2 because he's clear in his explanation and has a load of figures to back up what he says. And of course I'm ever the disbelieving Thomas who sees expensive snake oil everywhere and when confronted with a tall claim bout performance usually responds with 'Quit talking and show me the data'.

post #723 of 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post

You're absolutely right that I should audition of course.  Trouble is, most of the time I'm working/living in New Delhi, India (expat) and trust me, finding a variety of gear let alone a place to audition it is REALLY not possible here.  On the occasions I'm in Europe I usually have very little time available so even though I have a house there I basically only use it to shower, crash and get up next morning at 5 .  But given that the amp and cans together are no pocket change I might indeed do best to dedicate a day to this and make an appointment in a specialist store where I can show up with my present cans as reference point and a USB with classical pieces I know well, then try the T1 and HD800 with various DAC/AMP combos. I value the opinion of the designer of the O2 because he's clear in his explanation and has a load of figures to back up what he says. And of course I'm ever the disbelieving Thomas who sees expensive snake oil everywhere and when confronted with a tall claim bout performance usually responds with 'Quit talking and show me the data'.

 

totally understandable...for what it's worth, I own the T1s and love them. I've only auditioned the HD800 for about 30 min, but I found them to be fantastic phones. 

post #724 of 939
hi all, I have both and I use them both extensively. I have this crazy way of setting up a few headphones so I can audition any one I choose dependent on the music or the mood I'm in. Lots and lots of auditioning side by side has lead me to think I prefer the HD800s for all genres of music. The T1s have the edge on the directness of the stereo effects and have a punchier bass sound and are my preferred headphone for when the sun's shining and I want to take a headphone outside. They don't leak as much sound as the HD800s. The bass is deeper, the sound stage wider the the overall impression I have is the HD800s are a more natural sound. I love listening to both of them and I'm sure many will prefer the T1s over the HD800s.
post #725 of 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahlau88 View Post

Hi all,

 

I'm a long time lurker on the forum.  I started out with a pair of Westone 3s, and now I own a pair of ToGo334.  I listen to pop, rock, classic rock, edm, RnB, Blues, jpop, kpop.  Pretty much everything except Country.  Most of my files are 320 kbps files, although I have some AIFF and flacs. Normally I listen directly from my macbook pro and ipod mini.  I've tried to avoid going down the portable amp/dac route as I value portability a lot (i don't want to carry a big brick).

 

I'm looking to make the jump into full size headphones.  I find IEMs uncomfortable after awhile.  Having said that, I'm considering the the T1s and the HD800s.  I know I need a amp and dac and am considering the Bakoon HPA-21 to go with it.  The other amps like the LL and BHSE are a little more than what i want to spend at the moment. I've not thought too much about a dac yet, although I will get the Meridian Explorer to start with.  Any recommendations for DACs will be great (3K budget). 

 

I guess my question is will the fact I'm mostly listening to 320 kbps files make purchasing the setup a waste of money?  I've listen to the T1 and HD800 briefly through a Imac running apple lossless and a iriver (i think) dac and preferred the sound of the T1 over the HD800.  It sounded more warm and musical to me.  The HD800 sounded muted, like it had a veil over it (compared to the same setup) but I know the HD800s are very picky about upstream components so that was probably it.

 

Thanks in advance for any helpful replies.

 

On my set up (and I can configure it several different ways amp wise) the clearer sound lies with the HD800s. But the more musical..... yes I'm not surprised that you thought that. I'm sure many will find their ears appreciate the T1s signature.
post #726 of 939

IMO if you are going to listen to Pop or Rock music I would probably select the T1 just because its bass is punchier but for other genders the HD800 is better. Now, punchier to me does not translate to lower bass frequencies. IMO the HD800 can go lower in frequency than the T1 and has a wider soundstage. I really think that from the dynamic headphones the HD800 are the ones that emulate the sound of a speaker system the best.

 

Making an analogy with speakers I have always thought that the HD800 are more in line with top of the line B&W speakers sound and the T1 more with Wilson Audio.

 

One thing that I don't like about the T1 is that they are very picky about the position in your head. If they are to much to the from of your head (the back of the cup touching the back of your ear) they get darker and as you push them to the back of your head they get brighter. Same thing with you slightly move the cups in opposite directions the soundstage moves. This is due to the angled driver position. the HD800 have a little bit of this too but not as much as the T1.

 

IMO the T1 are fun to listen and the HD800 are relaxing to listen.

post #727 of 939

BTW, IMO both headphones benefit from a good OCC Copper cable. I personally found them a little bright with their stock cable. So, in that regard the HD800 have an advantage since you can easily replace the cable being not hardwired.

post #728 of 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman59 View Post

IMO if you are going to listen to Pop or Rock music I would probably select the T1 just because its bass is punchier but for other genders the HD800 is better. Now, punchier to me does not translate to lower bass frequencies. IMO the HD800 can go lower in frequency than the T1 and has a wider soundstage. I really think that from the dynamic headphones the HD800 are the ones that emulate the sound of a speaker system the best.

 

Making an analogy with speakers I have always thought that the HD800 are more in line with top of the line B&W speakers sound and the T1 more with Wilson Audio.

 

One thing that I don't like about the T1 is that they are very picky about the position in your head. If they are to much to the from of your head (the back of the cup touching the back of your ear) they get darker and as you push them to the back of your head they get brighter. Same thing with you slightly move the cups in opposite directions the soundstage moves. This is due to the angled driver position. the HD800 have a little bit of this too but not as much as the T1.

 

IMO the T1 are fun to listen and the HD800 are relaxing to listen.

 

Hey musicman..  If the T1s are like the Wilson Alexandria XLF  That would be all I'll ever need..wink_face.gif

post #729 of 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman59 View Post

BTW, IMO both headphones benefit from a good OCC Copper cable. I personally found them a little bright with their stock cable. So, in that regard the HD800 have an advantage since you can easily replace the cable being not hardwired.

 

Difference between well made cables is a myth and shouldn't be perpetuated.  If there is data to support this often heard claim we'd all like to see it.

 

Sorry.

post #730 of 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post

 

IMO Difference between well made cables is a myth.  If there is data to support this often heard claim we'd all like to see it. But I still wouldn't be able to hear it. Welcoming all data points and appreciate our different experiences.

 

Subjectivity and objectivity are equally important.

 

Sorry.


Edited by paradoxper - 8/23/13 at 7:10pm
post #731 of 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

Hey musicman..  If the T1s are like the Wilson Alexandria XLF  

 

And we've hit the absurdity level.  We (as Head-Fi people) complain about ~$1500 headphones...

 

These Wilson MAXX's aren't good enough!  Let's drop another $135k and then everything will be fine.  For now.

 

tongue_smile.gif

 

I've heard the Wilson Maxx a long time ago.  I was... like, whoa.

post #732 of 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eee Pee View Post

 

And we've hit the absurdity level.  We (as Head-Fi people) complain about ~$1500 headphones...

 

These Wilson MAXX's aren't good enough!  Let's drop another $135k and then everything will be fine.  For now.

 

tongue_smile.gif

 

I've heard the Wilson Maxx a long time ago.  I was... like, whoa.

 

There's only been one uber high end speaker that really, truly impressed me in a way that went beyond what I can already get from my beloved Maggie 3.6s...the NOLA baby reference grands. I've never heard any speaker create a 3-Dimensional image like that. It was pretty amazing. 

post #733 of 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post

 

Difference between well made cables is a myth and shouldn't be perpetuated.  If there is data to support this often heard claim we'd all like to see it.

 

Sorry.

 

Myth or fact depends on whether you have ever heard a difference of not. I have so it's no myth.

post #734 of 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post

Difference between well made cables is a myth and shouldn't be perpetuated.  If there is data to support this often heard claim we'd all like to see it.

Sorry.


I for one wouldn't like to see it. No need-I've already clearly heard it.

Sorry.

-Daniel
post #735 of 939
This thread is in danger of being derailed- let's get it back on track with something a little less controversial. In what way do the headfiers think the T1's complement the HD800? I think they are a different bass signature and they have a more closed in soundstage which makes the stereo effects stand out a little more to my ears. They are comfortable and a little more sensitive and leak less noise.
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