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Soviet tubes

post #1 of 13
2/6/10 at 12:02pm
Thread Starter 
First, maybe this doesn't belong here, so Mods please feel free to move this.
Now. I see many tube rollers (not just on HF) are starting to use more and more Soviet tubes, which are quite cheap indeed. Are these tubes sonically superior to some other tubes (say Raytheon)? Maybe I'll start to roll some tubes and I can get Soviet tubes real cheap here. Flee market 1 buck for 5.
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post #2 of 13
2/6/10 at 12:22pm
Well... there are still two categories here: vintage Russian tubes, and current production Russian tubes.

In general, I have been underwhelmed with current production tubes. I have tried various of the New Sensor tubes - "Tung-Sol" and "Mullard" branded, but made in Russia - and they are OK, but not anything I would use on a long term basis. And just about every Sovtek tube I have ever heard sounded far inferior to western NOS tubes.

On the other hand, some vintage/NOS Russian tubes have a great reputation. It's hit or miss. The 6H8C/6N8S, which is the 6SN7 equivalent, sound OK in their basic form, but many people think the true 1578 metal-base versions are the best 6SN7 ever made.

And the "flying-C" Svetlana 6550's also have a good reputation, and are relatively affordable compared to GE or (real) Tung-Sol 6550's. The Svetlana 6N13S, the Russian equivalent to the 6AS7G, is loved by some, but most think that even a basic RCA sounds better.

That said, I still think that western NOS tubes are better, overall. However, they are getting rarer and more expensive, making some Russian tubes especially attractive, since many are very cheap. You can get vintage NOS 6N8S/6H8C's for $2 each, whereas the cheapest US 6SN7 in NOS will cost about $20 at least.

Anyway, just my $.02.
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post #3 of 13
2/6/10 at 12:48pm
I have enjoyed the 6H23-EB as a replacement for 6922/6DJ8 tubes. Very nice sounding IMO on my Musical Fidelity products.
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post #4 of 13
2/6/10 at 2:41pm

I tend to agree...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post
Well... there are still two categories here: vintage Russian tubes, and current production Russian tubes.

In general, I have been underwhelmed with current production tubes. I have tried various of the New Sensor tubes - "Tung-Sol" and "Mullard" branded, but made in Russia - and they are OK, but not anything I would use on a long term basis. And just about every Sovtek tube I have ever heard sounded far inferior to western NOS tubes.

On the other hand, some vintage/NOS Russian tubes have a great reputation. It's hit or miss. The 6H8C/6N8S, which is the 6SN7 equivalent, sound OK in their basic form, but many people think the true 1578 metal-base versions are the best 6SN7 ever made.

And the "flying-C" Svetlana 6550's also have a good reputation, and are relatively affordable compared to GE or (real) Tung-Sol 6550's. The Svetlana 6N13S, the Russian equivalent to the 6AS7G, is loved by some, but most think that even a basic RCA sounds better.

That said, I still think that western NOS tubes are better, overall. However, they are getting rarer and more expensive, making some Russian tubes especially attractive, since many are very cheap. You can get vintage NOS 6N8S/6H8C's for $2 each, whereas the cheapest US 6SN7 in NOS will cost about $20 at least.

Anyway, just my $.02.
I tend to agree with this, but I've just picked up a Tung-Sol Gold plated 12AX7 for my amp yesterday and it's pretty darn good. I was shocked that it actually compares admirably to my NOS British made Mullard. It's still just behind my NOS Sylvania 5751s, but not by much (and it's got 30% more gain).

I'm listening to it right now and still a little surprised just how good this Tung-Sol is...

But as a general rule, Skylab hit the nail on the head...my $0.02. For you accountants out there, that's $0.04 now.
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post #5 of 13
2/6/10 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrarroyo View Post
I have enjoyed the 6H23-EB as a replacement for 6922/6DJ8 tubes. Very nice sounding IMO on my Musical Fidelity products.
Not only nice sounding, but long-lived tubes, as well. These easily stand up to my "tube-eating" Audible Illusions Modulus 3A pre-amp. As good as they sound, NOS Siemens, Amerex, etc. are gone in short order (very expensive long term proposition). The 6H23-EB doesn't give up much at all sonically speaking.
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post #6 of 13
2/6/10 at 3:27pm
In the power tube category the Svetlana EL34's (the "real" ones; brown base made in St. Petersburg) are excellent tubes -- all of the midrange magic is there with these. Sovtek makes a "super" 5881 that is quite nice, too. These tubes are important to guys like me who own amps that need lots of tubes (12 power tubes in my case). In the first place, try finding 12 closely matched RCA 6L6GC black tops, then add up the bill if you could find them. There are actually some very good Russian-made alternatives out there.
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post #7 of 13
2/6/10 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3602 View Post
First, maybe this doesn't belong here, so Mods please feel free to move this.
Now. I see many tube rollers (not just on HF) are starting to use more and more Soviet tubes, which are quite cheap indeed. Are these tubes sonically superior to some other tubes (say Raytheon)? Maybe I'll start to roll some tubes and I can get Soviet tubes real cheap here. Flee market 1 buck for 5.
"sonically superior" is subjective as you well know, but i'm comfortable in saying
many of the soviet vacuum tubes are well constructed and does an excellent job
in its function to transfer electrical signal. sound of tubes doesn't really exist, imo.
what does exist is the varying transfer efficacy, which depends enormously
on the working operating conditions such as current, voltages, impedance,
material and temperature. power dissipated by electrodes vary in temperature
and hence transfer efficacy...

any tube used with care and within the tubes operating parameter will
surprise you in what it can transfer from the source to your hp or speaker.
don't let the origin/cost fool you into thinking otherwise. that also applies to
overpriced "exotic" tubes.
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post #8 of 13
2/6/10 at 3:51pm
Modern Russian tubes are, generally, good, but not as good as either NOS Soviet or Western tubes.

A ELECTRO-HARMONIX 6922 is a good sounding tube, but the REFLECTOR 6N23P-EB is better as is a MULLARD ECC88. A SOVTEK EL84 is OK, but again a REFLECTOR 6P14P-EV is better and a Western EL84 is better again.

I am burning in a pair of 6P14P-EVs is my YARLAND P100. Cost is a factor here: a good pair of Western tubes, say from MULLARD or SIEMENS, would cost, conservatively, anything between £70-100; 4 x 6P14P-EVs cost £18, and sound great, not perhaps as good as a western tube but good enough for me.
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post #9 of 13
2/6/10 at 4:24pm
One major benefit of the Russian tubes is the price (especially in Europe) you can pick up a sack-full of decent tubes for the price of shipping from the USA!
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post #10 of 13
2/6/10 at 8:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post
Well... there are still two categories here: vintage Russian tubes, and current production Russian tubes.

In general, I have been underwhelmed with current production tubes. I have tried various of the New Sensor tubes - "Tung-Sol" and "Mullard" branded, but made in Russia - and they are OK, but not anything I would use on a long term basis. And just about every Sovtek tube I have ever heard sounded far inferior to western NOS tubes.

On the other hand, some vintage/NOS Russian tubes have a great reputation. It's hit or miss. The 6H8C/6N8S, which is the 6SN7 equivalent, sound OK in their basic form, but many people think the true 1578 metal-base versions are the best 6SN7 ever made.

And the "flying-C" Svetlana 6550's also have a good reputation, and are relatively affordable compared to GE or (real) Tung-Sol 6550's. The Svetlana 6N13S, the Russian equivalent to the 6AS7G, is loved by some, but most think that even a basic RCA sounds better.

That said, I still think that western NOS tubes are better, overall. However, they are getting rarer and more expensive, making some Russian tubes especially attractive, since many are very cheap. You can get vintage NOS 6N8S/6H8C's for $2 each, whereas the cheapest US 6SN7 in NOS will cost about $20 at least.

Anyway, just my $.02.
Also a fair number of Soviet tubes had various designations as some were given such designations as E and EV with the E standing for being mechanically ruggedized and the V standing for long life. Many people state that these designations and design differences resulting in a better sounding tube. Many of the smaller tubes such as the 6N23 and 6N1 are reported to be pretty magical in -EV form. If I remember correctly I believe the magic years for the 6N23 in -EV form is between 1985 and 1990.

Sometimes the QC for Soviet tubes weren't the best as I've received 6F5P tubes for my Figaro that have hummed or have low emissions but when you find a good set they really are something else.

I think they're worth your time and with the bulk quantity they usually sell by you'll get a bargain.
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post #11 of 13
2/6/10 at 9:15pm
I ordered a dozen of the 70's 6N8S brown-base tubes just to have a bunch of spares available for whatever reason. It was $24/dozen! Crazy.
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post #12 of 13
2/7/10 at 4:03am
Another vote for the 6n23-ev, but also don't discount the 6n1p (especially paired with 6n6p on a Bijou). On Raven, I'm using 6n23-ev / 6h30, where the 'supertubes' have gone totally out of control. The question is how to find the 1980's (or earlier) production, and whether Voskhod or Reflektor is better, where the former is reputed as such, though the latter sounds tres cool for tubes.

Short of Mullard xf2 on the el34/6ca7 side, the Winged C are the best new production - quite a bit better than the standby JJ.

Good thing 6s4a are still natively cheap, but wonder what their Russian equivalent is, as that will be my next focus.
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post #13 of 13
2/7/10 at 4:21am

I like Russian tubes

I've started down the perilous trail of DIY tube amps and I must say, it has really made me appreciate Russian tubes. First of all, the are DANG cheap and are really pretty much bullet proof (especially the e/ev stuff).

I think I've given up on the theory that all NOS stuff is better simply because its old and "no new production tubes can match the quality of vintage stuff, especially Western/vintage stuff." Now, there are certainly some great NOS, Western tubes but there are also some great NOS, Eastern tubes and some great new Eastern tubes and some great new Western tubes (OK, maybe not so much new stuff coming out of the west these days ).

At the end of the day, I really don't want to cough up the HUGE amounts of cash that NOS western tubes are going for. If I can get 90% of the performance for 10% of the price... well you catch my drift. Russian tubes sound good, last a LONG time, are tough, and don't cost a fortune.

Now, don't everyone go and bid them up to insane prices on ebay!
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