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I don't know how deep they are supposed to be inserted, I just read in the CK10 thread that deep insertion was necessary. Anyway I get a perfect seal with equal depth to the SE530.

Out of the few true BAs I've heard I liked the SE530 and SF5 Pro better with drums than the CK10 and CK100. I had only a few minutes to A/B the dynamic driver based HJE900 with the CK10 tomorrow morning. While both of these feature nicely extended and detailed highs and good mids, drums instantly struck me as more natural on the HJE900 even though the CK10 is most likely the more neutral phone. Once again, I don't think it's a matter of amplitude on a frequency chart. And I have no idea whether you can read differences in bass texture from any chart.

But the best example of what I mean is the e-Q7: I was really excited about the e-Q7 being the best BA phone to render drums until I learned from ClieOS that it was a in fact a dynamic/BA crossbreed. That's why I suspect I might simply have a preference for DD.

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Yeah you got it. Don't bother, you have to have pretty weird ear anatomy like me to need this.

Is the E-Q7 really $399????

Is it not the same technology as the new Etymotic coming out next month? And the Ety is suppose to sell for about $140 ?

Should be interesting.

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I'd be surprised if a frequency chart could delineate such specific sonic information, but having said that, I really have no idea either. I also find that dynamic driver earphones reproduce drum sounds more convincingly than balanced armature phones, and this is especially noticeable with the rendering of cymbals. The TF10 is the best BA phone I've heard so far for reproducing drums, but it still falls short when it comes to rendering cymbals. With the BA phones that I've heard, cymbals sound too brittle and oddly enough - metallic, to the point of sounding artificial or digitised. They tend to make all cymbals sound like the non-cast variety, which do have a bright, brash and metallic sonic character.

IMHO the sonic timbre of cymbals have more to do with the tip-type and the seal moreso than the driver type. Cymbals sound far more natural with a foam-type tip than a silicone to me. Almost like night and day.

^ Not in my experience. I don't use foam tips. I prefer silicone tips with my balanced armature and dynamic driver phones (with the exception of the SE530 where I use the grey flex tips, which might not be silicone but rubber?). I've never had a problem achieving a good seal with any of my phones. So I think I can take the tip variable out of the equation and disagree with you there. I do detect a distinct difference between the way dynamic driver and balanced armature phones reproduce drums and cymbals. Dynamic driver phones also bring a visceral quality to drums that balanced armature phones lack IMO.

Thanks for the impressions so far. I just completed my tips comparison for the CK10 here if your interested in other tips that fit these.

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Oh I wasn't planning on it but that is probably the most creative in finding the best seal I've seen. Decored olives work best for me

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You can get them for $349 + shipping from ALO audio I believe. Or you can get them on ebay for $329 shipped directly from Japan. It's expensive because it has the newly developed moving armature driver enclosed into a high quality machined aluminum housing that apparently provides excellent resonance properties.

Actually the ortofon eq7 is $329 plus shipping which would probably make it around $340 or so.

james, just out of curiosity would you say any of the three (ortofon eq7, ck100, ck10) be clearly better or am i right to assume they just all present them differently? i've read that to be for ck10 and ck100 but havent read too much on the eq7.

^ rawrster, I concur with your assumption, just like I said in post #1 of this thread:

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Nevertheless I'm looking forward to an extended listening session with these three (and maybe the HJE900 as underdog contender) and a writeup of my personal impressions and preferences.

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Its expensive because these sellers are significantly marking them up. They sell for about ¥23,000 (about $250) which is just a few thousand yen more than the CK10

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Yikes...I had a suspicion when I made my absolute claim that lying on your side with these was a none starter, it might come back and bite me in the butt as absolute statements are prone to do!

And while the store I was auditioning them also sells mattresses, I didn't actually try lying down on any of them as they are on a different floor! But I did have a look in the mirror and place my hand over my ear and due to their length am unable to get them completely inside my canal as I can with the FX500. I thought I had about as wide and deep canals as is humanly possible but evidently not!

And finally, thank for making me aware of these, James. I doubt I would have tried them without you starting this thread as they are one of the few phones kept behind glass here rather than on an open counter. Unless something comes out that I like more in the next month or two, they will be my next IEM purchase.

Meh, every earphone sound significantly different from any other. It's too broad of a comment to compare BA and dyamic in such large chunks.

BA can't produce cymbals? BA can't produce drums? Don't blame the driver. Blame the intended design of the earphone not matching your specific "ideal" sound.

The TF10 is a poor example of good drums from a BA. They roll off a little early to create a full presentation. The top end might be to light and sparkly and lack overall dynamics and energy to really create a real impressive crash of a cymbal.

You might look at something more like the Westone W3 or UM3X for more extended bass and more dynamic range and energy. For example, the UM3X is very nearly on par with the IE8 in terms of bass. The IE8 has a little more sensitivity, but the UM3X has more detail and energy. The IE8 can be at times...soft around the edges. The TF10 can be too in terms of dynamics. The Westones are far more in your face.

Yea, it seems all the Japanese IEM's are grossly overpriced. Heck the Shure E4 also had a finely machined 2-piece aluminum housing with a very unique filter changing design. No big deal.... Whether it's machined from metal or molded from plastic the tooling cost about the same.

So while the dynamics have apparent great tibre and attack, it sounds like they are looser and sloppier sounding than the BA's? It would seem a multi-driver BA is the best of both worlds covering the entire frequency spectrum while still exhibiting great articulation.