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Just listened to some Fostex T50RPs today... WOW! - Page 247

post #3691 of 10820
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmdevils View Post

I just bought a pair of T50rp's.  I'm looking forward to comparing them to my vintage Yamaha and Fostex.  popcorn.gif


Hey Rythm. I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised. I heard a bunch of ericj's ortho collection (largest and best diy ortho collection that I know of). He brought like 30-35 headphones to the meet. =D

 

I can say these are going to knock your socks off, although it was a blast getting to see team vintage fostex, audio technica, yamaha, ect. Ericj might have had 1 or 2 or maybe even 3 cans in the same league, but these are still better (as in all typical audiophile values) on the whole. rolleyes.gifI still have to meet up with him sometime. We only live like 5 miles away from each other.

 


Edited by Hennyo - 10/11/11 at 10:12am
post #3692 of 10820

I am skeptical that they can stand up against the likes of the NAD RP18 which is an OEM of the original T50 made in 79 and has a driver roughly the size of the LCD-2.  But my main priority is even frequency response, not technical ability so I'll be testing them and comparing them based on my ability to get that out of them and Smeggy and some of you guys seem to have had some success with the T50rp driver in this way.  Even FR is the biggest challenge in damping/modding orthos IME.  It will be fun to have a whole new driver to play with.  biggrin.gif


Edited by rhythmdevils - 10/11/11 at 11:31am
post #3693 of 10820

Any quick opinions on how to optimize mrspeakers Rastapants2 for SRH840 pads?  I'm probably going to do the same set up on the interior of the headphones but I'm thinking they made need an extra something underneath the pads to replicate the O2 design.  Maybe going back to 3 or 4 layers of Paxmate/SilverStone underneath the rear side of the pads to give it that angle.  Any other suggestions?

post #3694 of 10820

I'm still waiting on high quality measurements of these mods!  Tyll said he'd be working on them soon, didn't he?

 

I'm honestly still kind of skeptical that a $70 headphone can come anywhere near a $1000 one, but who knows...I guess I'll find out in due time.  Still waiting on my pair to arrive at Long & McQuade.

post #3695 of 10820
Front End Audio just sent me an email saying my T50RPs have shipped!
post #3696 of 10820

haha, the DIY quest never ends! I've spoken to the owner of that site that provides damping factor measurements, and he's told that he's working on some recipes that he plans on sharing(and also sell as a finished product) that have a higher factor than even tungsten putty, but are also much lighter L3000.gif


Edited by leeperry - 10/11/11 at 3:19pm
post #3697 of 10820
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrspeakers View Post

I'll be working on 840, 5000 and stock tuning over the next few weeks.

 

 

Looking forward to your results. I'm far too cheap (and sensible) to drop $100+ on pads. 


Edited by micmacmo - 10/11/11 at 5:27pm
post #3698 of 10820

Now I'm totally satisfied with my Fosteximus T50RPrime and consider them 100% finish. I've removed the reflex dot and now the sound is perfectly balanced, not bass bleeding into the mids nor sibilance in the highs.

 

How do the Fosteximus T50RPrime sound to my ears? Almost the same as a pair of Genelec 8260A speakers in acoustically treated room. The lower bass is present, controlled and defined, the same as the bass and mid-bass. The mids are just perfect, sound like they should without being metallic or unnatural. The highs now aren't roll off, with the right presence, powerful and crisp without a hint of sibilance.

 

What about the comfort and fitting? With the secondary headband, you won't notice them in your head and with the Stax EP-007 earpads will feel like pillows in your ears. I can wear them for hours without noting them, although they a bit heavier than stock. Also I'm a glasses user, so comfort for me is crucial.

 

The bad point? Ultra-revealing of poor recordings and excellent recordings. You will hear things that you don't even know that were in the track.

 

End game for me, except for a couple of fetish in the future.

 

Test songs (almost all in FLAC):

 

- SLaRe - The murder of Red Riding Hood,

- Example - Change the way you kiss me.

- Tony Bennet and Amy Winehouse - Body and soul.

- Muse - I belong to you.

- Eminem - Same song & dance.

- String Quarter Tribute to Muse - Sunburn.

- Editors - Bones.

- Incubus - Black heart inertia.

- The Prodigy - Omen.

- Kraftwerk - Die Roboter.

- Duran Duran - The Reflex.

- Tinie Tempah feat. Swedish House Mafia - Miami 2 Ibiza.

- Run DMC - Down with the king.

- Rammstein - Du hast.

- Rihanna - Only girl in the world.

- Beyoncé - Halo.

- Joseph Haydn - String Quartet in D, Op 76, No. 5 (24bit/96KHz)

- Adele - Cold shoulder

 

Tomorrow I will take a couple of pics with the reflex camera, because these jewels don't deserve pics taken with my SGSII.

post #3699 of 10820

Congratulations SlaRe. My T50's finally made their way back from Tyll today. So I'll be tinkering with them again soon, and trying the 02 pads from my Martypantsed T50's with them.

post #3700 of 10820

Thanks KneelJung.

 

You're gonna love the O2 pads. One of the best investments I ever made, really.

post #3701 of 10820

If the Fostex can go beyond LCD2, can it touch the SR009? Reach for the StaR! biggrin.gif

post #3702 of 10820

Just another guy's opinion...take it for what it's worth...my 2 cents...YMMV...

 

I took yesterday off to mod a set of T50RP's to mrspeakers' specs but without the O2 pads.  Today, I made my compairisons; in total, over 14 hours of modding and testing.  My objective has been to get as close as possible to LCD2's for under $100, so $150 Stax O2 pads do not factor into my goal.  

 

Dynamat is nasty stuff, hard to work, and very difficult to remove as you will see later.  It took me 6 hours to measure, cut, and place Dynamat in the cups, Paxmate Plus over the Dynamat, plasticine in the baffles/around drivers and Paxmate over that, 2mm stiff craft felt over the drivers secured with rubber cement, and changing out Shure 840 pads more times than I want to count - these are very difficult to put on the Fostex cups!

 

FWIW, I also compared "limp" felt, naked drivers, 1 and 2 layers of 3M Transpore tape, and 1 layer of 2mm stiff craft felt from Michael's.

 

My comparisons were made between my:

 

1. Rastapants 2 (with stiff felt - soft side down; Shure 840 ear pads, not Stax O2 ear pads)

2. Stock T50RP

3. BMF (vanity plates) with plasticine baffles, Paxmate cups, stock bass port felt, stock white driver felt, Paxmate ring under stock ear pads vs no ring with Shure 840 pads

4. Shure SE535 in ear monitors

5. Audeze LCD2 - v1, second revision of pads and cables

 

Chain:  MacBook Pro --> glass toslink to Dacmini --> Stock cables to respective phones 

 

Lossless media files :  Anna Maria Jopek-Upojenie; Diana Krall-My Love Is A Mountain Side, Dancing In the Dark, The Look of Love; Patricia Barber-Light My Fire, Too Rich For My Blood; Sade-Please Send Me Someone to Love; Rufus Wainwright-Slideshow; Radiohead-Jigsaw Falling Into Place, There There, You; Gorillaz-Dare, Clint Eastwood, Feel Good, Inc; Donald Fagan-Century's End, Babylon Sisters, Janie Runaway; k.d. lang-Wash Me Clean; Brahms 3rd Symphony 3rd movement; Bill Evans-Peace Piece

 

These tracks are challenging from bass to mids to treble consisting of jazz instrumentals; jazz vocals; alternative electronica, jazz-rock fusion, and classical.

 

Conclusions:

 

1. Stock T50RP aren't bad but they are held back by resonance and reflections.

 

2. Dynamat is a royal pain and not worth the effort.

 

3. Rastapants 2 is very good but does not suit my ears.  The sound is neutral but with veiled mids and highs; bass is very good, textured, and tight.  They have an obvious narrow soundstage/closed- in sound to my ears compared to all the other phones in this set of my comparisons.  This is not surprising to me since they are completely closed.  Obviously, I have not and will not try the O2 pads.  The excellent results mrspeakers achieved may be due to the synergy of his mods with O2 pads vs. different preferences, equipment, opinions, placebo effect, bias, etc...mine included.

 

4. I prefer the sound of my BMF, as described, with their (to me) better clarity and wider soundstage compared to Rastapants 2.  So, I next removed the Paxmate and Dynamat over the bass ports, then tested and the result was improved soundstage and better mids/treble but with some bass bloom.  Next, I removed the Paxmate and Dynamat over the center cup compartments and the result was more improvement to soundstage but a bit more bass bleeding into the midrange.  The solution for me was to cover 3 of the 4 bass port slots with Paxmate (with the stock bass port felt in place) -  Problems solved (for me).

 

5. After (conservatively) literally 100's of individual mods to 4 sets of T50RP's and countless hours of side-by-side comparisons, I have concluded:

 

  * T50RP's can be improved

 

  * Rastapants 2 is very good but I like my BMF's more because they satisfy my preferences just as mrspeakers tuned his to suit his preferences.  There is no "right or wrong" way or "best" way. It simply comes down to personal taste, preferences, opinions, equipment, etc.  That is why you can read everything about modding and a multitude of opinions but you will never know which is better for you until you try them for yourself.

 

  * As good as I have been able to make them, and as good as they are for < $100 cans, modded T50RP's are no match for Shure SE535's and LCD2's. In my opinion, the LCD2's and SE535 are in another league with superior soundstage, deep-textured-controlled bass, clarity-space-and air, absence of bass bleed into the midrange, to die for mids, and transparent treble. SE535's give the LCD2's a run for the money. It is not surprising to me that the modded T50RP's (mine) have consistently been bested considering the SE535 has 2 bass an 1 treble balanced armatures per side and the LCD2 is open and 4 or 5 times the driver size compared to T50RP's.  If I had never heard the SE535's and LCD2's, I would be very happy with my modded Fostex. In fact, I am very happy with them for their low price and very good sound, once modded.

 

  * Simple is better.  The easiest mods and best bang for the buck, as far as I am concerned, are Paxmate in the cups, plasticine in the baffles, stock bass port felt intact, Paxmate covering 3 of the 4 bass port vents on the inside of the cups, the baffle vents open, and a Paxmate ring under stock ear pads. For the trouble of putting plasticine in the little holes around the driver, the effort was not worth the results to me. For $15, Shure 840 pads offer a good upgrade (except for the difficulty of putting them on) and keep the total modded price under $100.

 

  * Stiff felt is definitely better than limp felt.

 

  * Stock white driver felt, 2 layers of 3M Transpore tape, and 1 layer of stiff craft felt are too close for me to tell a difference.

 

  * Shure 840 pads are definitely better than stock, cost $15, and are a pain in the butt to put on - make this your last and final mod.

 

  * Music straight from my MacBook Pro vs Dacmini is definitely different, favoring the Dacmini by a wide margin. Still, if I had never heard the Dacmini I would be happy with the MacBook Pro, alone. Yes, it can drive the modded T50RP's.

 

  * Paxmate over baffle plasticine was not better than plasticine, alone, with my mods.

 

 

 

Mods and comparisons:

 

Fostex and Friends.jpg

 

CEntrance Dacmini, Stock T50RP, BMF #4 mods, Rastapants 2 mods with Shure 840 pads, Audeze LCD2, Shure SE535, MacBook Pro.

 

 

 

Fostex ready for Dynamat.jpg

 

Plasticine in baffles and Paxmate over plasticine. Electrical tape over bass port vents.

 

 

 

Fostex with Dynamat.jpg

 

Dynamat in cups. Plasticine around drivers. Paxmate over baffle plasticine.

 

 

 

Fostex with Paxmate over Dynamat.jpg

 

Paxmate over Dynamat. Driver waiting for stiff felt. I also tried limp felt, 2 layers of 3M Transpore tape, and naked drivers. Stiff felt is better than limp felt and naked drivers; and equivalent to stock white driver felt and 2 layers of 3M Transpore.

 

 

 

Fostex with stiff felt.jpg

 

Stiff felt over naked drivers. Plasticine in baffles and around drivers. Paxmate over baffle plasticine. Stiff felt works - limp felt does not.

 

 

 

Fostex with Rastapants #2 & Shure 840 pads.jpg

 

Stock set and Rastapants 2 with Shure 840 pads.

 

 

Fostex w:stiff felt no baffle foam.jpg

 

Stiff felt. Dynamat + Paxmate in cups. Removed Paxmate over baffle plasticine. Removed Dynamat and Paxmate over bass ports, stock bass port felt intact.

 

 

 

Fostex Rastapants #2 open bass port.jpg

 

Rastapants 2 with bass port exposed by cutting away Paxmate and Dynamat.  This opened them up quite a bit. As above, I kept the bass port felt in place.

 

 

Fostex Rastapants #2 w:exposed center and bass Port.jpg

 

Rastapants 2 with bass ports an central housing exposed by removing the Paxmate and Dynamat.  This further improved soundstage.  There was a bit of bass bloom into the mids corrected by placing Paxmate over 3 of the 4 felt-covered bass ports (not shown).

 

 

 

 

post #3703 of 10820

Thanks so much BMF for your reality check post! You just made me want to acquire the SE535 for reference.

In my case EM3Pro still wins in soundstage.

I'm still using fiberfill and modelling clay (I think I was the first one to utilize this in this thread due to cost factor biggrin.gif) in my cups.

I most probably will not touch those scary flashband (dynamat alternative) anymore.

Another dog bow to BMF!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemonkeyflyer View Post

  * As good as I have been able to make them, and as good as they are for < $100 cans, modded T50RP's are no match for Shure SE535's and LCD2's. In my opinion, the LCD2's and SE535 are in another league with superior soundstage, deep-textured-controlled bass, clarity-space-and air, absence of bass bleed into the midrange, to die for mids, and transparent treble. SE535's give the LCD2's a run for the money. It is not surprising to me that the modded T50RP's (mine) have consistently been bested considering the SE535 has 2 bass an 1 treble balanced armatures per side and the LCD2 is open and 4 or 5 times the driver size compared to T50RP's.  If I had never heard the SE535's and LCD2's, I would be very happy with my modded Fostex. In fact, I am very happy with them for their low price and very good sound, once modded.

 

  * Simple is better.  The easiest mods and best bang for the buck, as far as I am concerned, are Paxmate in the cups, plasticine in the baffles, stock bass port felt intact, Paxmate covering 3 of the 4 bass port vents on the inside of the cups, the baffle vents open, and a Paxmate ring under stock ear pads. For the trouble of putting plasticine in the little holes around the driver, the effort was not worth the results to me. For $15, Shure 840 pads offer a good upgrade (except for the difficulty of putting them on) and keep the total modded price under $100.


 

 

 



 

post #3704 of 10820
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemonkeyflyer View Post


Monumental effort... but those are not Rastapants 2.... They lack clay around the baffle lip, (this privides a gasket effect, rather than the acoustic foam effect.. Doesn't quite handle resonances the same. and you didn't mention weather or not you have acoustic foam on the earside.
 Also, I'm not sure if that's the same driver felt as what we're using as all of the ratapants 2 users have black felt... And also, but I bet you did this. Did you tape the vents up?

 

We're going to have these measured in 10 days or so on the 23rd. Mrspeakers, Luis, and I are all going to meet in Irvine and measure these up really quick. I think what you're hearing might be about 60-70% Rastapants potential... Also, the acoustic foam should not be 'draped' over the dot as this is confirmed to mess with both the airiness and mids. The good sound in these = atention to detail.. That is not a proper mod..


Edited by Hennyo - 10/11/11 at 6:59pm
post #3705 of 10820

Wow, lots of great info.  Still not sure what I should use here in Canada though...I would presume that most of those materials would be rather difficult to get here?  Unless they aren't.


If they are though, what would be a good alternative that would be easy to get anywhere?  (for the damping material in the cups, I mean)

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