Just listened to some Fostex T50RPs today... WOW! - Page 162

I've got a CTH incoming. Everyone raves about them with these phones (and Thunderpants). I hope it sounds nice. I am thinking anything will be an upgrade from my cheapo Indeed.

The modded version tested with waterfall plots shows very little change... maybe even worsening performance.  Please, send your headphones to someone who can test them and show radical peformance improvements, like fixing that broken double impulse, improving the low-end THD, and flattening out the frequency response.  Smeggy Thunderpants shows the Fostex driver in the T50 and T40 is capable of high end stuff, but even stock if you listen to them long enough without comparing to something else they start to sound "normal" and improved.  Please send your cans off to get tested by someone and prove it.  Even if I'm completely wrong about this, you guys will get an idea of which mods in the community do what to the sound.

btw, what earpads is Smeggy using?  I might send mine off to get woodied, but first I'd like to just try cushion changes if they're not home made ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkz 

I've got a CTH incoming. Everyone raves about them with these phones (and Thunderpants). I hope it sounds nice. I am thinking anything will be an upgrade from my cheapo Indeed.

This ^^. If you're going to amp them you're going to want a real amp... I have an STX too. Sorry all you STX lovers...

CTH, A nuforce Icon HDP, a MiniMAX, O2, ect. I have STX and Frankly it is pathetic compared to my desktop amps. I haven't used it in almost a year.... The DAC fairs much better, It feeds my speakers, that's about it.

Let's put it this way. I'm willing to bet that to drive an T 50rp with authority you're going to want 400-700 mw at the least, that is if you want to bring out what that diaphragm can really do... It will give it a much more transparent, wider, cleaner, just better sound.

Yes the STX will get 'loud' enough, but don't expect to be satisfied with the sound for very long from that headamp. When I had Senns HD 595's improved <35% (so not much) with a basic real amp because that is not really a can that needs an amp. It's one of the best examples of 'entry level' audiphilia that doesn't need an amp.

Grados sounded like they were being driven like my ipod nano 3rd gen. (that is to say, horrible..) I was surprised to find that my grados positively loved getting their first dip of amp... They improved so much, and after heavy modification get more headtime than HD 650... by a long ways actually... they improved  >%100. I kid you not. My grados sounded like garbage out of my stx/ipod... While not technically the best can, they are one of the warmest and most musical / engaging can out of an amp with half a butt cheek. ;)

HD 650's?! It's widely known the potential with an amp is limitless. And this can-will grow with you / your system. I've a/b'd mine with Magnepan 3.7's, while the maggies did the mids just a titch better, the HD 650's beat it on musicality while having more dynamic range. In short, while the maggies were cool, I actually prefered the HD 650's.... As did the sales rep. With recabling and a good amp, headphones can easily go a long way.  (3.7's - are the newest and greatest mageneplanars on the market. $7500 pair)..

My take on ortho's - LCD 2 for example from various sources. If you want to drive these with any kind of authorirty and even catch a glimpse of what people are talking about, you need at least 800mw. 500, according to Audez'e, is enough to "barely move the diaphragm.' If you want most of what people rave about, you're going to want around 1-2 or < watts, (such as a Lyr) or a very quality voltage / current transient amp, such as the Cavali audio liquid fire or something along those lines...

While the T 50 rp might not need quite that much power to shine, There's no doubt it could fervently suck up > 500 mw. The LCD-2 and T50 have the same vrm sensitivity...

The moral of the story is: Most headphones get 'loud' enough with the STX, but in my (and most others) experience there's not enough quality power to move the diaphragm with any authority. It's headamp is cute, but it's in the same league as my ipod. It's a 3$ chip on the card.... that is the amp. What are you really expecting... Dry, tizzy, forward, somewhat sibilant, very thin sound. It's sounds utterly sterile imo. Not neutral, sterile... When you plug it in, you'll say 'this sounds alright.'

Check back how you think it sounds after 2-3 weeks.....

What solid state amp is best for the T50RP's?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDMan 

What solid state amp is best for the T50RP's?

A darker one would work best

But anything with a decent amount of power would do just well

FiiO E9 for example

order of mods:

- removed the ear-side felt over the driver.

- placed some Beyer pad foam over the driver.  AKG foam is larger in diameter than the Beyer and might be more apropos if going with a pad with a larger opening than stock.  

- dense sticky back .200 felt from Lowes inside the cups. 

- Crayola modeling clay on the baffle.

- removed lower vent felt.

- placed .200 felt over vent.

- removed vent felt.

i'm playing around with electrical tape over the outside of the vent.  you can really change the bass response by adjusting the size of the vent opening.    

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishski13 

order of mods:

- removed the ear-side felt over the driver.

- placed some Beyer pad foam over the driver.  AKG foam is larger in diameter than the Beyer and might be more apropos if going with a pad with a larger opening than stock.  

- dense sticky back .200 felt from Lowes inside the cups. 

- Crayola modeling clay on the baffle.

- removed lower vent felt.

- placed .200 felt over vent.

- removed vent felt.

 

i'm playing around with electrical tape over the outside of the vent.  you can really change the bass response by adjusting the size of the vent opening.    

 

Sorry to break this to you, but pads make up about 70% of the modding.

There is just small changes if you add dampening

btw: I found to allow the vent in the cups to shoot directly to the driver allows a lot more air to move about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishski13 

order of mods:

- removed the ear-side felt over the driver.

- placed some Beyer pad foam over the driver.  AKG foam is larger in diameter than the Beyer and might be more apropos if going with a pad with a larger opening than stock.  

- dense sticky back .200 felt from Lowes inside the cups. 

- Crayola modeling clay on the baffle.

- removed lower vent felt.

- placed .200 felt over vent.

- removed vent felt.

 

i'm playing around with electrical tape over the outside of the vent.  you can really change the bass response by adjusting the size of the vent opening.    

 

To save you some time, cover the sides of the inner housing in felt too, not just the back, or you'll still get reflections, and cover the reflex dot. It adds some needed lower treble but it doesn't sound good. Or stick a relex dot right stuck on the back of the driver like botbytes done, that's something I really want to try when I get mine back.

For the vent leaving about 3-5mm of one vent slot open sounded the best. Less than that and the bass starts sounding detached from the 1k peak, much more and it starts sounding uncontrolled and flubby, but there's lots of room for tuning, those are just the two extremes you want to avoid.

thanks guys.  geez, i've only had them for 24 hrs - i'm by no mean finished.  right now, they sound a little more refined than stock.  i rolled in the 240DF pads again and didn't care for them.  the SA5000 look like a good option - wider ear opening and angled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishski13 

thanks guys.  geez, i've only had them for 24 hrs - i'm by no mean finished.  right now, they sound a little more refined than stock.  i rolled in the 240DF pads again and didn't care for them.  the SA5000 look like a good option - wider ear opening and angled.

DO this:

Load one cup with dampening

Load the other

Pass the T50RP to someone else to listen to

Ask them which side is better

Your mod set I tested up against mine and my mommy said my side was better, by a little. But who knows what the old crock can hear?

Test out modded vs unmodded for someone who doesn't know what you did. Actually, don't tell them there is something off and wait for them to comment "this side is different" then you know what's better or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draygonn 



This is not true. There are plenty of modding styles. Some sound terrific with the stock pads, such as the Faust mod. You just need to have a good seal.

Agreed.  Botbyte, with all due respect, you never removed the white felt and their are multiple other mods you have not tried or heard, so making absolute statements is perhaps not such a good idea....  

You have a tuning which you like, which is great and I expect is a nice upgrade, but my experience showed me that better sound can be achieved when you take the mods further.  If 70% of your tuning is ear pads, it's only because you didn't remove the white felt, which has a massive effect (and which requires port tuning), and also that you have not used true acoustic foam in the cups.  Felt is a very modest absorber of sound and blutak on the back of the cup will not absorb many reflections, acoustic foam is much more aggressive at killing reflections.

Also, your comment that any amp with up to 250ohms of output impedance can drive these is odd.  With orthos, output impedance is not terribly important as they have very flat impedance curves, and it's really only when the Z curve of the can is complex that output Z of the amp really changes the sound.  What matters is the available power.   

Regarding power ratings, one certainly do not need 400 or 600mW of power, unless you like bleeding eardrums and going deaf at an early age.  The efficiency of these is such that 100mW of solid power (e.g. Class A) should be more than anyone but the most dedicated bass head or DJ will ever need.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrspeakers 

Agreed.  Botbyte, with all due respect, you never removed the white felt and their are multiple other mods you have not tried or heard, so making absolute statements is perhaps not such a good idea....  

 

You have a tuning which you like, which is great and I expect is a nice upgrade, but my experience showed me that better sound can be achieved when you take the mods further.  If 70% of your tuning is ear pads, it's only because you didn't remove the white felt, which has a massive effect (and which requires port tuning), and also that you have not used true acoustic foam in the cups.  Felt is a very modest absorber of sound and blutak on the back of the cup will not absorb many reflections, acoustic foam is much more aggressive at killing reflections.

 

Also, your comment that any amp with up to 250ohms of output impedance can drive these is odd.  With orthos, output impedance is not terribly important as they have very flat impedance curves, and it's really only when the Z curve of the can is complex that output Z of the amp really changes the sound.  What matters is the available power.   

 

Regarding power ratings, one certainly do not need 400 or 600mW of power, unless you like bleeding eardrums and going deaf at an early age.  The efficiency of these is such that 100mW of solid power (e.g. Class A) should be more than anyone but the most dedicated bass head or DJ will ever need.  

 

 

My comment about the amp is up to 250ohms. I said that because a low impedance amp would he horrible to the T50RP

And fine, I'll replace the felt on the drivers. Now where was that again? Thunderpants thread?

I can't imagine that you would get any kind of consistent or decent way to compare by modding each side differently, not with a stereo signal.

Some of us have been working on these damping schemes for over a year now.  Yes, pads make a difference, but so do other things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelpearce 

I can't imagine that you would get any kind of consistent or decent way to compare by modding each side differently, not with a stereo signal.

 

Some of us have been working on these damping schemes for over a year now.  Yes, pads make a difference, but so do other things.

Well of course.

It's not like I'm saying that dampening and internal modding is worthless, just in my experience, pads made the most (dramatic) difference

It's not placebo either, but just small changes that add up over time.