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FLAC vs ALAC - FLAC noticeably better? - Page 2

post #16 of 34
I read somewhere Foobar might be guilty, people complaining that FLAC through foobar to an external DAC sounded different then when using another media program in the same setup.
Sorry I can't be more explicit; I can't remember where I read it and what the exact problem with Foobar was.
post #17 of 34
They should be the same if both decoders are doing what they are supposed to.
Perhapos one of the filters is not working properly and degrading sound quality. All things being equal though you should hear no difference.
post #18 of 34
Thread Starter 
So the ALAC decoding in foobar may be guilty here?
post #19 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by dura View Post
I read somewhere Foobar might be guilty, people complaining that FLAC through foobar to an external DAC sounded different then when using another media program in the same setup.
Sorry I can't be more explicit; I can't remember where I read it and what the exact problem with Foobar was.
well, the ASIO implementation in foobar used to be slightly messed up too: Universal Soldier: ASUS Xonar D2 PM Sound Card Review (page 9) - X-bit labs
Quote:
the version 0.9 ASIO playback plugin for Foobar works inaccurately which can be easily demonstrated with measurements.
for ppl who listen to sound more than to music, foobar MIGHT not be your best option.

this said, foobar w/ FLAC in KS(properly implemented in the soundcard drivers, meaning exclusive mode/bit-matched) is pretty darn' fine
post #20 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeycam View Post
So the ALAC decoding in foobar may be guilty here?
Possibly. One of the decoders isn't operating properly if there is a audible difference between the files. I would also try the different file types in another player to test if it is just that certain players decoders.
post #21 of 34
well, the decoder is not the problem because according to binary comparison both decoded is the same (like expected).
ASIO might very well not be perfect. It depends on the soundcard drivers/hardware. It might be really bad. But then it should be bad on both formats. It would be very strange if the ASIO output would tread different formats differently.
post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slogra View Post
well, the decoder is not the problem because according to binary comparison both decoded is the same (like expected).
ASIO might very well not be perfect. It depends on the soundcard drivers/hardware. It might be really bad. But then it should be bad on both formats. It would be very strange if the ASIO output would tread different formats differently.
Well if they are exactly the same when decoded and there is no influence from ASIO (I cannot see why there would be) then this is plecbo?

Your right, if there was a negative effect, then it should be applied to any formats.
I don't think ASIO would treat files differently so maybe trying the files using another application may help with this puzzle.
post #23 of 34
Thread Starter 
In that case, is there any other software that allows ABX tests other than foobar?
post #24 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonci View Post
Even to me flac sound better, but I think it should placebo, since they are bit to bit identical,
or maybe Eac is better than the MAC equivalent ripper,
btw, I highly, highly doubt that FLAC and ALAC are bit to bit identical... If that were the case, they would be the same format! They're both lossless, yes, but the algorithm to encode the music and get rid of the worthless bits are probably quite different.

I use XLD (a mac program) to convert FLAC to ALAC. It works very well for me.
post #25 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by etiolate View Post
btw, I highly, highly doubt that FLAC and ALAC are bit to bit identical... If that were the case, they would be the same format! They're both lossless, yes, but the algorithm to encode the music and get rid of the worthless bits are probably quite different.

I use XLD (a mac program) to convert FLAC to ALAC. It works very well for me.
I am pretty sure that he meant that the decoded data of the two formats would end up being bit to bit identical. Which they would be if the same data was used to encode each one.
post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by etiolate View Post
btw, I highly, highly doubt that FLAC and ALAC are bit to bit identical... If that were the case, they would be the same format! They're both lossless, yes, but the algorithm to encode the music and get rid of the worthless bits are probably quite different.

I use XLD (a mac program) to convert FLAC to ALAC. It works very well for me.
Think of ZiP, RAR, and various other compressing algorithms. They encode differently, but when they are decompressed, they retain the exact same replica of the original file.

They are essentially same. FLAC, ALAC, APE, etc, are all LOSSLESS encoding of the original file in the native format the original authors decided to encode in.
post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by etiolate View Post
btw, I highly, highly doubt that FLAC and ALAC are bit to bit identical... If that were the case, they would be the same format! They're both lossless, yes, but the algorithm to encode the music and get rid of the worthless bits are probably quite different.
FLAC and ALAC files are not bit identical.
The audio data stored inside them are bit identical when decoded though, which is what "lossless" refers to...
post #28 of 34
this is probably wrong, but I thought converting audiofiles (wav to mp3, flac to alac) somehow reduced the quality even if keeping the same bitrate size etc.. Maybe if instead of converting to alac if you reripped the source cd's straight to alac they would sound the same?
post #29 of 34
you could convert from wave to flac, to alac to ape back to wave then flac and alac and it'll be the same.
post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by dugforeva View Post
this is probably wrong, but I thought converting audiofiles (wav to mp3, flac to alac) somehow reduced the quality even if keeping the same bitrate size etc.. Maybe if instead of converting to alac if you reripped the source cd's straight to alac they would sound the same?
That is only true for lossy not lossless.
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