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The Opamp thread - Page 307

post #4591 of 4750

I think Spud was just expressing his own concerns from having been burned in the past, with no intent to hurt your feelings.  

 

I haven't ordered the Muses 02 yet, because I can't find it in stock at the official re-sellers (including Mouser), but I'm not willing to take a chance, so I'm waiting - and I don't want you to feel bad about your purchase, by doing so.  

post #4592 of 4750
The eBay seller who ripped me off 4 years ago is still selling today.

Why would my OpAmp come in such packaging because I bought 1 off from Audiotrak? (They have thousands and thousands of them) Are you saying it would be different from Mouser? Farnelll? RS Components? etc.... I guess the only way to find out is to order from them? I only have the 02 and am curious of the differences between this and the 01.

This is nothing personal and I don't want to make you feel bad but these scum bags are ripping people off.
post #4593 of 4750

For what it's worth this is a picture of a legit Muses02.

The most significant physical difference I've noticed is the leads are soft and flexible.  IE part of the Muses design is the copper frame, so the leads don't feel like most normal op-amps which are a bit stiffer.

It's less likely that someone trying to fake A Muses would go through the trouble and expense of re-creating the copper frame and leads.  I've never had a fake so I couldn't say for sure, however it's the first thing that I would check.  Also the silkscreen is very clear and sharp though it is still a standard dot printing method.

 

post #4594 of 4750
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpudHarris View Post

When I started out I got my fingers burned once or twice..... I now firmly believe that if an OpAmp is being sold for considerably less (taking into account quantity break points/discounts) the the chances are it's not going to be the real deal. Like I said before, there are some great sounding OpAmps out there that are begging to be rebranded and placebo will fill in the gaps.

 

I was primarily reacting to the bolded words. The inference is that a buyer, such as myself, might not even know it is a fake. However, while I found this to be a somewhat insulting, I felt that no insult was meant, and in turn, I took no offence. :)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpudHarris View Post

The eBay seller who ripped me off 4 years ago is still selling today.

Why would my OpAmp come in such packaging because I bought 1 off from Audiotrak? (They have thousands and thousands of them) Are you saying it would be different from Mouser? Farnelll? RS Components? etc.... I guess the only way to find out is to order from them? I only have the 02 and am curious of the differences between this and the 01.

This is nothing personal and I don't want to make you feel bad but these scum bags are ripping people off.

 

Of course, I don't know the specifics of your case, but I have seen eBay take strong action on several occasions. Several vacuum tube auctions in which I was bidding were stopped when someone reported something amiss. And in one instance, not only was the listing pulled, but the vendor's store simply disappeared. So while it seems that your vendor managed to escape unscathed, I have seen at least one banned.

 

Bulk packaging associated with large quantity orders is often quite different than what I would call "consumer packaging". Again, if I were to order a large number of opamps for a product I was manufacturing, I would ask for bulk packaging. Otherwise, I would have to extract a 1000 chips from their cases and then all those nice plastic cases would have to be pitched - a waste and a hassle. So it is only reasonable to think that these chips can be ordered with cases, or without, per the buyer's request.

 

However, I fully endorse the intent of your words: "Buyer Beware"

 

Cheers

post #4595 of 4750

On the chance that these may be of interest, some pics of my MUSES 01. I don't have much experience with handling opamps, so it is difficult for me to compare the stiffness of the leads.

 

 

 

 

post #4596 of 4750
I got two more muses01.


@spud
can you post the pics of your muses02's sides adjacent to the pin sides ?
post #4597 of 4750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin W. View Post
 

For what it's worth this is a picture of a legit Muses02.

The most significant physical difference I've noticed is the leads are soft and flexible.  IE part of the Muses design is the copper frame, so the leads don't feel like most normal op-amps which are a bit stiffer.

 

 

Can confirm this. Compared to other opamps the leads are much more nimble.

 

Tried MUSES 01 in main circuit and at the output stage too. Sounded kind of dryish thin.'

 

Changed back output stage to OPA627 AD8620, lean but warm signature. I guess this setting will never get beaten by any other combination.

 


Forgot to look which opamp was in output stage. It's actually AD8620.


Edited by psygeist - 1/14/14 at 1:45am
post #4598 of 4750
Here are some pics of the Muses02 with other OpAmps for reference. The legs in comparison to other OpAmps seem very pliable, almost flimsy I'd say and appear a lot lighter in colour.





Edited by SpudHarris - 1/13/14 at 5:22am
post #4599 of 4750

What would be the best chips for my 18v cmoy with a dip-8 socket?

post #4600 of 4750

In light of the problem of identifying the MUSES series OP Amps, one would wish, that NJR would set up an official e-bay store.

 

There are so much money to be earned by faking these IC´s, any cheap DIP8 would be the base.

 

I bought mine from .jp, hoping that the closeness to the source would get me the real things.

 

Only listened so far to the MUSES01, and the MUSES8920, and in my setup the 8920 sounds a bit rounded of at the extremes (bass & treble), and a bit cautious.

 

The 01 on the other hand is very neutral, and definitely sounds like very high end.

It has a firm deep bass, and extended highs - all with a very listenable, and enjoyable tone.

 

On the other hand, who knows what IC´s I am listening to :)

 

Are the legs of the IC´s of a different material, tried to scrape the surface of my 01´s legs, but unsure about the result.


Edited by SWIN - 1/13/14 at 12:38pm
post #4601 of 4750
Quote:
Originally Posted by psygeist View Post

Can confirm this. Compared to other opamps the leads are much more nimble.

Tried MUSES 01 in main circuit and at the output stage too. Sounded kind of dryish thin.'

Changed back output stage to OPA627, lean but warm signature. I guess this setting will never get beaten by any other combination.

So you prefer the OPA627s? In what amp by the way?
post #4602 of 4750
Quote:
Originally Posted by highfell View Post

So you prefer the OPA627s? In what amp by the way?

I prefer MUSES 01 in main circuit and OPA627 AD8620 in output stage.

I tried MUSES 01 in output stage but it sound too dry to me. May be I need extended listening.

Amp is LEAR FSM02 V2.


Forgot to look which opamp was in output stage. It's actually AD8620.
Edited by psygeist - 1/14/14 at 1:43am
post #4603 of 4750

Alright, just got 5 MUSES02 and a pair of MUSES01 in the mail--those ebay fakes you know lol.

 

First off, not that I really care much or I like to argue, but I have very little reason to assume these are fakes. Lettering, holes and pins are exactly the way the "true" MUSES have been described; and beyond that, the sound kind of confirms their genuineness as far as I'm concerned. And yes, the pins are actually pretty flimsy compared to my usual chips, so much so you could bend them beyond repair way too easily... Be warned...

 

Anyway, onto impressions now. I tested (I'd love to be allowed to say "put to burn-in" but I'm afraid I'll get a public stoning if I do lol) three MUSES02 in my iBasso D10 (one I/V, two buffers) first. Pretty immediate difference compared to my three OPA627AU combination from before. Replacing the I/V opamp made a huge difference (both in terms of sound quality and "flavor") whereas swapping the buffer opamps made more of a "sound color" difference listening upon first listen, even though the sound quality clearly ramped up at the same time.

 

These are obviously pretty powerful chips here, heavy hitting and loud. Not exactly neutral right out of the box, bass seems a little overwhelming (D10 is connected to my old iRiver H120, while this is a great mobile setup, with pretty good sound quality, the bass does have that "jitter party" effect where it is more thumpy than tactile, and the MUSES02 kind of emphasizes that), but soundstage and sound quality are on a total different level from the previous chips, cavernous (not large) and wet (not grainy). If the bass gets a little tamer after a few hours--wait that's impossible, I forgot, semiconductors don't evolve with time!-- this could be a pretty good opamp for a mobile setup, where "loudness" and bass with a good level of detail can be more important than the hyper-critical detail retrieval and resolution I would look for on my home rig.

 

MUSES01 now. Tested a pair of these in my DAC output, in my main home setup, replacing two pairs of AD797BR opamps--my reference chips up to now--feeding my tube headamp. Interestingly, the first second of the first song I played, I noticed the difference in sound quality with the AD797, but I also noticed no change in sound "color" or "flavor". What does this mean? Well, simply that the MUSES01 is a better opamp than the AD797 in that position, but that's it's just as neutral, which is both good and what I'm looking for (last thing I need is a "colorful" opamp in my DAC like the OPA627...).

 

The sound is nicely balanced throughout the whole frequency spectrum--if anything, I find myself expecting a tad more bass out of the box, but I'm pretty sure that will solve itself in the first few hours, you know, brain burn in-- with no frequencies dominating the sound. I am hearing more details than with the AD797, better defined, both spatially and in resolution; the soundstage isn't particularly large  as I've read (it is a little larger and higher than the AD797, but not deeper), but very 3D-holographic sounding with pleasantly realistic instrument placement and separation. No particular wetness here, apart from what the tubes add in my setup; just a neutral 3D ultra-detailed sound: a better-made AD797 really... I'm surprised by how similar these chips sound--or don't sound actually, since they're so neutral...

 

Anyway, I will "monitor" the evolution of the opamps in both setups, and report back when my brain has burnt-in lol.

post #4604 of 4750

That was a nice comparison of the 01 and 02!   Thanks very much!

 

Mike

post #4605 of 4750
Quote:
 

 

"...MUSES01 now. Tested a pair of these in my DAC output, in my main home setup, replacing two pairs of AD797BR opamps--my reference chips up to now--feeding my tube headamp. Interestingly, the first second of the first song I played, I noticed the difference in sound quality with the AD797, but I also noticed no change in sound "color" or "flavor". What does this mean? Well, simply that the MUSES01 is a better opamp than the AD797 in that position, but that's it's just as neutral, which is both good and what I'm looking for (last thing I need is a "colorful" opamp in my DAC like the OPA627...).

 

The sound is nicely balanced throughout the whole frequency spectrum--if anything, I find myself expecting a tad more bass out of the box, but I'm pretty sure that will solve itself in the first few hours, you know, brain burn in-- with no frequencies dominating the sound. I am hearing more details than with the AD797, better defined, both spatially and in resolution; the soundstage isn't particularly large  as I've read (it is a little larger and higher than the AD797, but not deeper), but very 3D-holographic sounding with pleasantly realistic instrument placement and separation. No particular wetness here, apart from what the tubes add in my setup; just a neutral 3D ultra-detailed sound: a better-made AD797 really... I'm surprised by how similar these chips sound--or don't sound actually, since they're so neutral...

 

Anyway, I will "monitor" the evolution of the opamps in both setups, and report back when my brain has burnt-in lol.

 I'll confirm Audiofanboy's findings with the MUSES01. Same Chinese knockoff, er....I mean purchase, placed in the output on an Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 pci card. Only difference is I have LME49990MA in the I/V sockets feeding it.  I was using an adapter holding (2) LT1028-ACN8 in the output. I still prefer the LT1028 setup but if I had never tried different opamps, the MUSES01 would sound very impressive but an overall step down from LME499990.  In combination the MUSE01 adds a bit of clarity to spread or enhance the staging (airiness). Only slightly bass lite to what I am accustom to lately. Does bring everything forward to lose a bit of dimension but you would never notice unless you know what to listen for (depth). Handles the mids and high well, maybe slightly bright. A decent purchase if under $30. Certainly beats OPA627 but anything would.  Ever since the LME499990 my AD797s have been in the back of the drawer for a couple years now.

 

Can't speak to MUSE02, don't have any.

 

[Surreal burn-in needs to happen continuously for at least 8 hours or mental gain is lost.]

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