Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite
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Stereolab42
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There is no point in buying a WA5 to run just the stock tubes. The "real" price of a WA5 is what Woo charges plus a couple thousand more for great tubes. If you are unwilling/unable to get those tubes I highly suggest selling it. You can't go wrong with Takatsuki, Sophia RP, or EML 300Bs. You can get great NOS 6SN7s/rectifiers for no more than $50-$100 each, and frequently much less if you know what to look for. The eBay tube sellers with lots of positive feedback and plausible test results are usually quite reliable. (Pictures/inclusion of the original box increase the chance the tube is actually unused.)
After spending nearly $6k on the amp I haven't worked up the will to spend nearly $4k on the fancy Takatsuki tubes... Maybe one question, are there any posts or info out there that describes the impact to sound of the different tubes (300b, 6sn7, 5u4g). What's most important to upgrade first etc? I was reading about these Sophia 6sn7s on that 6sn7 Tube Addicts thread along with Ken-Rads and that sounded good but then some of these I've read don't always work well with every amp etc. Bah. anyways... Hello Woo owners
If you're shooting to spend as little as possible for great tubes, I would recommend getting Sophia Royal Princess (SERPs) (usually $600-700/pair from audiogon/ebay directly from Sophia Electric), and then Sylvania NOS 6sn7 or 6f8g for drivers ($150/pair), finally Mullard GZ32/CV593 for rectifiers ($200/pair). That totaled up to be around $1000, which I think would get you to 90% of the best tubes out there.
If you want only new production, then I would go with SERPs, Sophia mesh rectifiers, and shuguang black treasure CV181 drivers.
TonyNewman
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Badas
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Woo WA22 v's Violectric V281 Shootout
Well, Tony and I did the shootout yesterday. Fun time. Remember it is just my opinion on the Shootout.
The Equipment:
iPod, Onkyo Dock running digital into the Auralic Vega DAC.
Woo WA22. With the following tubes. TAK274B rectifier, Tung-Sol Round Plates 6C8G drivers and GE6AS7GA power tubes.
Violectric V281
LCD-X, HD800s and HE6.
I did all my evaluation using the LCD-X. This is my everyday go to HP. So it was best that I use this HP.
I broke down my evaluation of the amps in the following areas: Treble, Mid-range, Bass, Holographics, Soundstage and Speed.
I will rank each amp as a score out of 10 in each area. Woo first and Violectric second. Woo WA22 was warmed up.
1. Treble: Woo WA22. 9/10 v's Violectric 10/10. More treble detail and air from the Violectric. As expected. Tubes just can't match.
Test tracks. Adel - Hello and Rolling in the deep. No harshness from each amp. Adel is great for testing harshness.
2. Mid-range: Woo WA22 10/10 v's Violectric 9/10. This is the only area the Woo took advantage. The tubes provided the very best in mid-range lushness and smoothness. Violectric was close but it was obvious the Woo was better. The mid-range was not more on the Woo it was just more natural. Tony and I chatted about this at length. The best way we could explain was the mid-range was more clinical on the Violectric where the Woo sounded more natural.
Test Tracks. Many from artist like Alison Krauss, Adel etc...
3. Bass: Woo WA22 9/10 v's Violectric 10/10. Violectric killed the Woo in this area. Deeper cleaner bass and I was using the TAK274B in the Woo. TAK is the best I have come across on bass.
Test Tracks from Pearl Jam
4. Holographics: Woo 10/10 v's Violectric 10/10. What a result from a SS amp. We could not blind test this. We couldn't tell them apart. I have never heard a SS amp be able to do this.
Test Tracks. Stevie Wonder - I wish and Sir duke, Bee Gees - Jive talking.
5. Soundstage: Woo 9.5/10 v's Violectric 10/10. Not much in it. The higher sweeter treble from the Violectric just opened up the soundstage a tad more.
Test Track. Alison Krauss - Gravity
6. Speed: Woo WA22 5/10 v's Violectric 10/10. Oh no. The Woo just fell apart. It sounded like a flat radio at best. It was like entering a Rolls Royce in a super car race. Sure it is luxury but it can't keep up. Violectric laughed at the speed. Everything was presented with clean slam and pace.
Test Track. Robert Palmer - Some like it hot.
Did the Violectric kill the Woo WA22 like I said last week? Well no. I'm sorry for that statement. In my defense the Auralic Vega did lift the WA22 a lot. The Violectric was better in a lot of areas but one. Then killed the Woo on speed. I feel the Woo can compete. However here is the point. The Violectric V281 is the first SS amp that I have heard that really makes some tube amps pointless. Add into the mix it is cheaper than the WA22, you don't have tubes to replace or buy and it is so much easier to use and look after so to me the Violectric V281 is a revolution.
HD800s and Woo WA22 evaluation to come.
Well, Tony and I did the shootout yesterday. Fun time. Remember it is just my opinion on the Shootout.
The Equipment:
iPod, Onkyo Dock running digital into the Auralic Vega DAC.
Woo WA22. With the following tubes. TAK274B rectifier, Tung-Sol Round Plates 6C8G drivers and GE6AS7GA power tubes.
Violectric V281
LCD-X, HD800s and HE6.
I did all my evaluation using the LCD-X. This is my everyday go to HP. So it was best that I use this HP.
I broke down my evaluation of the amps in the following areas: Treble, Mid-range, Bass, Holographics, Soundstage and Speed.
I will rank each amp as a score out of 10 in each area. Woo first and Violectric second. Woo WA22 was warmed up.
1. Treble: Woo WA22. 9/10 v's Violectric 10/10. More treble detail and air from the Violectric. As expected. Tubes just can't match.
Test tracks. Adel - Hello and Rolling in the deep. No harshness from each amp. Adel is great for testing harshness.
2. Mid-range: Woo WA22 10/10 v's Violectric 9/10. This is the only area the Woo took advantage. The tubes provided the very best in mid-range lushness and smoothness. Violectric was close but it was obvious the Woo was better. The mid-range was not more on the Woo it was just more natural. Tony and I chatted about this at length. The best way we could explain was the mid-range was more clinical on the Violectric where the Woo sounded more natural.
Test Tracks. Many from artist like Alison Krauss, Adel etc...
3. Bass: Woo WA22 9/10 v's Violectric 10/10. Violectric killed the Woo in this area. Deeper cleaner bass and I was using the TAK274B in the Woo. TAK is the best I have come across on bass.
Test Tracks from Pearl Jam
4. Holographics: Woo 10/10 v's Violectric 10/10. What a result from a SS amp. We could not blind test this. We couldn't tell them apart. I have never heard a SS amp be able to do this.
Test Tracks. Stevie Wonder - I wish and Sir duke, Bee Gees - Jive talking.
5. Soundstage: Woo 9.5/10 v's Violectric 10/10. Not much in it. The higher sweeter treble from the Violectric just opened up the soundstage a tad more.
Test Track. Alison Krauss - Gravity
6. Speed: Woo WA22 5/10 v's Violectric 10/10. Oh no. The Woo just fell apart. It sounded like a flat radio at best. It was like entering a Rolls Royce in a super car race. Sure it is luxury but it can't keep up. Violectric laughed at the speed. Everything was presented with clean slam and pace.
Test Track. Robert Palmer - Some like it hot.
Did the Violectric kill the Woo WA22 like I said last week? Well no. I'm sorry for that statement. In my defense the Auralic Vega did lift the WA22 a lot. The Violectric was better in a lot of areas but one. Then killed the Woo on speed. I feel the Woo can compete. However here is the point. The Violectric V281 is the first SS amp that I have heard that really makes some tube amps pointless. Add into the mix it is cheaper than the WA22, you don't have tubes to replace or buy and it is so much easier to use and look after so to me the Violectric V281 is a revolution.
HD800s and Woo WA22 evaluation to come.
Woo WA22 v's Violectric V281 Shootout
Well, Tony and I did the shootout yesterday. Fun time. Remember it is just my opinion on the Shootout.
The Equipment:
iPod, Onkyo Dock running digital into the Auralic Vega DAC.
Woo WA22. With the following tubes. TAK274B rectifier, Tung-Sol Round Plates 6C8G drivers and GE6AS7GA power tubes.
Violectric V281
LCD-X, HD800s and HE6.
I did all my evaluation using the LCD-X. This is my everyday go to HP. So it was best that I use this HP.
I broke down my evaluation of the amps in the following areas: Treble, Mid-range, Bass, Holographics, Soundstage and Speed.
I will rank each amp as a score out of 10 in each area. Woo first and Violectric second. Woo WA22 was warmed up.
1. Treble: Woo WA22. 9/10 v's Violectric 10/10. More treble detail and air from the Violectric. As expected. Tubes just can't match.
Test tracks. Adel - Hello and Rolling in the deep. No harshness from each amp. Adel is great for testing harshness.
2. Mid-range: Woo WA22 10/10 v's Violectric 9/10. This is the only area the Woo took advantage. The tubes provided the very best in mid-range lushness and smoothness. Violectric was close but it was obvious the Woo was better. The mid-range was not more on the Woo it was just more natural. Tony and I chatted about this at length. The best way we could explain was the mid-range was more clinical on the Violectric where the Woo sounded more natural.
Test Tracks. Many from artist like Alison Krauss, Adel etc...
3. Bass: Woo WA22 9/10 v's Violectric 10/10. Violectric killed the Woo in this area. Deeper cleaner bass and I was using the TAK274B in the Woo. TAK is the best I have come across on bass.
Test Tracks from Pearl Jam
4. Holographics: Woo 10/10 v's Violectric 10/10. What a result from a SS amp. We could not blind test this. We couldn't tell them apart. I have never heard a SS amp be able to do this.
Test Tracks. Stevie Wonder - I wish and Sir duke, Bee Gees - Jive talking.
5. Soundstage: Woo 9.5/10 v's Violectric 10/10. Not much in it. The higher sweeter treble from the Violectric just opened up the soundstage a tad more.
Test Track. Alison Krauss - Gravity
6. Speed: Woo WA22 5/10 v's Violectric 10/10. Oh no. The Woo just fell apart. It sounded like a flat radio at best. It was like entering a Rolls Royce in a super car race. Sure it is luxury but it can't keep up. Violectric laughed at the speed. Everything was presented with clean slam and pace.
Test Track. Robert Palmer - Some like it hot.
Did the Violectric kill the Woo WA22 like I said last week? Well no. I'm sorry for that statement. In my defense the Auralic Vega did lift the WA22 a lot. The Violectric was better in a lot of areas but one. Then killed the Woo on speed. I feel the Woo can compete. However here is the point. The Violectric V281 is the first SS amp that I have heard that really makes some tube amps pointless. Add into the mix it is cheaper than the WA22, you don't have tubes to replace or buy and it is so much easier to use and look after to me it is a revolution.
HD800s and Woo WA22 evaluation to come.
I always thought the WA22 was laid back aka slow but it's still enjoyable depending on the track- a relaxing but also capable sound. I think I wrote something like walking through fog but only a few - few storms/thunder.
TonyNewman
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Worth noting that both the WA22 and the V281 improved noticeably when we dialed the Vega output back to 70% on the digital volume control. That hot output from the Vega (4.2V) can causes issues with tube and SS amps. Probably a bigger performance gain on the WA22, but the treble was noticeable smoother on the V281 as well. This was not something I was expecting, as I had assumed (wrongly) that the V281 would not care about the hot input so was running the Vega @ 100% from the first day I had the V281. This was utterly WRONG. It matters. Quite a bit.
I don't know why Auralic have designed the Vega with such hot output. Standard is around 2 - 2.5V. Winding the digital output back to 70% brings things back to something close to the normal range without any degradation in the SQ that we could detect. Going further (to 60%) did bring about a SQ drop that we noticed, so we left the digital output @ 70% and pushed on happily. The V281 still has plenty of power to drive the HE6 without having to manipulate the gain switches at the rear of the unit, even with the Vega throttled back to 70%. This is a beefy SS amp.
The 2 biggest surprises for me of the afternoon were this piece of learning (the hot Vega output does impact the V281 performance) and just how badly the WA22 fell apart on the punchy rock track 'Some Like It Hot' from Robert Palmer. It was a shambles on the WA22, even though the amp was sporting some very good tubes and had performed admirably on everything else.
Standout headphones were the modded HE6 and HD800S. Both performed brilliantly with whatever we put through at them. Very impressed with the improvements made by Senn with the HD800S over the HD800C. I still give #1 spot to the modded HE6. I have spent a lot of hours tweaking the mods and I think I have got it about as good as I ever will and it is singing nicely. Mids are superb on both the HD800S and HE6, but the planar does things down low and up top the HD800S can't, but the Hd800S wins on soundstage (of course). Either are truly excellent with the V281. HD800S pairs extremely well with the WA22 (HE6 is a non-starter with the WA22 due to power limitations).
I don't know why Auralic have designed the Vega with such hot output. Standard is around 2 - 2.5V. Winding the digital output back to 70% brings things back to something close to the normal range without any degradation in the SQ that we could detect. Going further (to 60%) did bring about a SQ drop that we noticed, so we left the digital output @ 70% and pushed on happily. The V281 still has plenty of power to drive the HE6 without having to manipulate the gain switches at the rear of the unit, even with the Vega throttled back to 70%. This is a beefy SS amp.
The 2 biggest surprises for me of the afternoon were this piece of learning (the hot Vega output does impact the V281 performance) and just how badly the WA22 fell apart on the punchy rock track 'Some Like It Hot' from Robert Palmer. It was a shambles on the WA22, even though the amp was sporting some very good tubes and had performed admirably on everything else.
Standout headphones were the modded HE6 and HD800S. Both performed brilliantly with whatever we put through at them. Very impressed with the improvements made by Senn with the HD800S over the HD800C. I still give #1 spot to the modded HE6. I have spent a lot of hours tweaking the mods and I think I have got it about as good as I ever will and it is singing nicely. Mids are superb on both the HD800S and HE6, but the planar does things down low and up top the HD800S can't, but the Hd800S wins on soundstage (of course). Either are truly excellent with the V281. HD800S pairs extremely well with the WA22 (HE6 is a non-starter with the WA22 due to power limitations).
Badas
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Woo WA22 and HD800s
In a word lovely. I can't fault the pairing and I was not a HD800 fanboy.
HD800s is a very different beast to the HD800. Really I would just forget about the HD800 and move on. The HD800s is superior in every way. The HD800 was on hand to use yesterday but I just didn't want to put them on.
Here is what I heard. Where the HD800 was harsh (probably not the nicest word) and out of control in treble the HD800s was not. It was sweet and detailed. With the Woo it was warm and lush and I cannot believe I'm going to say this about a HD800 it had bass slam. Yes bass slam. Wow.
In short. A top pairing HD800s and Woo WA22.
In a word lovely. I can't fault the pairing and I was not a HD800 fanboy.
HD800s is a very different beast to the HD800. Really I would just forget about the HD800 and move on. The HD800s is superior in every way. The HD800 was on hand to use yesterday but I just didn't want to put them on.
Here is what I heard. Where the HD800 was harsh (probably not the nicest word) and out of control in treble the HD800s was not. It was sweet and detailed. With the Woo it was warm and lush and I cannot believe I'm going to say this about a HD800 it had bass slam. Yes bass slam. Wow.
In short. A top pairing HD800s and Woo WA22.
It sounds like HD800s sounds like my HD800c with endorphin cables. I'm looking forward to hearing them one of these days.
Quote:
Well following that message on the Violectric... I'm thinking "Shouldn't we all sell our tube amps and get one of them?"
So for both of you, you're basically saying upgrade the tubes. I get confused really easily on all this. I thought for example that I'd read both positive things about Shuguang Black Treasure CV181 as well as negative, it's not really the same as a 6SN7 and there's problems. I don't really care about new vs old except that there's implied a lot of deception with used/old sellers and poor testing methodology looking to take advantage of ignorant buyers and I do consider myself ignorant. Is there anything most important to upgrade first? Any way to prioritize? It sounds like I'm hearing I need to replace them all so forget about the order. Now I don't have to be totally tight fisted, if I was I never would have bought a WA5. I'm just trying to find clarity in making that first step. I've read all glowing things about The Royal Princess and EML 300b. I've seen numerous recommendations for Sophia and Shuguang. Another thing that throws me is all these codes like Mullard GZ32/VC593... So those are compatible with the WA5? I'm afraid I get some thing and start a fire
I appreciate the recommendations. I suppose I have to start somewhere and pull the trigger and try it out. Forum reading is just twisting me in knots at the end of it all.
Rossliew
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Great impressions from the shoot out. Really puts things into perspective regarding tube amps and the cost to run them at their optimum level 
Still, I'm sure this will not deter the tube fanboys 
Still, I'm sure this will not deter the tube fanboys
Well following that message on the Violectric... I'm thinking "Shouldn't we all sell our tube amps and get one of them?"
So for both of you, you're basically saying upgrade the tubes. I get confused really easily on all this. I thought for example that I'd read both positive things about Shuguang Black Treasure CV181 as well as negative, it's not really the same as a 6SN7 and there's problems. I don't really care about new vs old except that there's implied a lot of deception with used/old sellers and poor testing methodology looking to take advantage of ignorant buyers and I do consider myself ignorant. Is there anything most important to upgrade first? Any way to prioritize? It sounds like I'm hearing I need to replace them all so forget about the order. Now I don't have to be totally tight fisted, if I was I never would have bought a WA5. I'm just trying to find clarity in making that first step. I've read all glowing things about The Royal Princess and EML 300b. I've seen numerous recommendations for Sophia and Shuguang. Another thing that throws me is all these codes like Mullard GZ32/VC593... So those are compatible with the WA5? I'm afraid I get some thing and start a fire
I think EML300b and metal mullard gz34 and a pair of sylvania 6sn7- that's a good step up to begin with. Then you can really hear the difference with stock tubes.
Badas
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Great impressions from the shoot out. Really puts things into perspective regarding tube amps and the cost to run them at their optimum level
I agree. The Woo WA22 still won in one area. Not by much. The mid-range. It is important to note that we listen to a lot of music in the mid-range. So tubes have their place.
I'm happy with how the WA22 performed. It was close to the V281 in most other areas. So it is still a top amp.
I eventually want a V281 and I will listen to all music on it but vocal music. However the best plan for me is DAC first. The Vega really improved the WA22. Bang for buck it will give me the best improvement. I am still just rocking a Arcam irDAC. I think my system deserves a little better.
Okay. I see NOS Sylvania 6SN7-GTA Chrome Topped 1954 out on eBay for $180. From recent discussion on the 6SN7 thread chrome topped is what I want. From previous reading I was leaning towards EML300b over the Royal Princess though I haven't heard either.
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