i opened a similar can of worms some time ago:

what's the point of comparing headphones online?

Hmmm... I think I might go for straight wire with gain connected directly to the aural inputs of my brain.

Quote:



And that's what I meant. Let's not forget, fellow geeks, music is not about waveforms and attenuation and capacitors. It's about emotional impact. Each time you listen to a recording, you approach it with different experiences and a different mindset, even if you listen to the same CD the next day.

Remember, it's not your ears that percieve the music, it's your brain. You've got lots of thoughts, feelings and experiences all fighting for time in your concious mind, and that balancing act creates both the personality we project in to the world and the way we process the stimulus from it. Size of drivers and impedance can tell us about how the sound wave hits our eardrums, but can tell us nothing about the way the emotion hits our soul. Your ears hear the sound, but it's your thinking brain that gives context to what that sound means.

I think the ideal piece of sound reproduction equipment is the one that you don't notice. A sound engineer buddy of mind told me that an audience will never notice a good sound mix, but they'll sure notice a bad one. The same can be said of equipment. If the manufacturer has done their job, you should only be hearing the music, not the faults of the equipment. Even an average live sound mix can't kill my enthusiasm for the energy of the performers on stage and the emotional reaction of the audience. It's a shared, visceral experience, much like posting on this board.

Sitting by ourselves, we have no context to understand our experiences. So, we search for outlets to share our experiences so they can be meaningful to us. This search for information changes the way we perceive the stimulus we recieve, and lets us understand our experiences in a new way. Be honest, how many of you liked a set of cans, then read a negative comment, went back and listened to the same set of headphones and developed a negative opinion? How about not liking phones and then seeing a good review?

I love to listen to good music, and I want to have equipment that can make the music come alive.

Thanks for all the interesting posts. As you can tell, I REALLY like to type, and this gives me the perfect opportunity to place some thoughts out where I know they will be read.

cajunchrist

I just got CD3000s and boy do I love them! I guess my quest will never end... as long as it keeps having these thrilling moments of ecstacy!!! Or until I'm out of cash as I am right now.

But its soooo worth it!

Quote:



This thread is great--and the quote from Hirsch is perfect. I remember "upgrading" from the Radio Shack type system I had in college--each time I added a better component I was amazed at the notes I hadn't heard previously. Then the CD medium helped.

But with a moderate system I think I'm at a level where I'm satisfied with what I'm listening to. And I think you probably get the most bang from your buck the first time you upgrade. I doubt that capturing nearly the same improvement from spending the first additional $2000 over a budget system is realized when spending the same amount of money to improve a moderate system. Additionally, while I wanted all seperate components when younger--I'd have to make to much room in the living room to put in the power amp, pre amp, tuner, headphone amp, new set of large speakers.... Plus with listening to much music in the car, or over a computer at work, and listening to lots of bootleg recordings which usually aren't the greatest soundwise (but are great re energy and spirit), and having kids run around in the background, having a GREAT home system wouldn't be wprth it to me.

Regarding the rags that LOVE all expensive equiptment, usually that reflects not wanting to lose any advertisers--in the same way a "good" rating (which was the minimal rating handed out) by a cycling mag, really meant poor and investemnt houses rate a stock as a "hold" when they really should say sell.

Best

So many views, but one of the main problems is the impossibility of putting into words the effect that good music has on our beings.
Name dropping can never approach the sublime. You can spend a fortune and never reach the feeling you might get from a great performance played back on a 30.00 Sony FM/AM with original phones.
I can listen to very expensive gear one minute at my Brother's house and the next minute, get more out of this little Walkman while driving home with the Right music.
Yes I can enjoy the music played back on a 40,000.00 "Literally" system and still get More from a set of Etymotic, My own handmade amp, and a good CD source. Not to mention that it is portable, battery powerable and works with complete freedom no matter where I am. Amazing.
We live in a time when the gear is So Good. I remember a time when the CD didn't exist. There was no portable stereo audio. Now we can get amazing sound from a 100.00 portable CD player. Do people appreciate music more now? Absolutely not.
Do not worry that you might not hear a difference, because there is not much difference to be heard.
Yet every now and then a remarkable improvement comes along and changes things in ways that are unmistakeable. Absolute improvement across the spectrum of possible improvement. When this happens you will know it immediately. Switching to an amp did not change things much for me until recently with my own highly tweaked amps. I think this is because my sources were pretty darn good to begin with. My portable is from a time when they really had power. The headphone out is serious and exceptional. This is the old Denon portable which runs on 4AA for about 1 1/2 hours, but it has a serious headphone amp inside. It sounds just as good as my Airhead.
I heard improvement when I started making my own amps, not that much but it was clearly distinguishable to the average liistener. There was another improvement when I went from average parts on perfboard to high quality parts, wire, and professional etched circuit boards. Now the difference between the first amps and the next generation was unmistakeable. The next level was only recently attained for me, and this includes the next level of opamps and buffers. The more expensive very high speed amps driven with the proper +-15V supplies using high speed design techniques are clearly superior to anything I've heard before.
This newest level of sound is not as apparent with the more efficient Etymotic phones, but with the AKG 501 and Grado and I'm sure all other large driver phones available phones, it is an unmistakeable improvement.
I have not heard this improvement until now but it may and should exist in the realm of very high priced amplifiers like the top Headroom models etc. I've heard almost all the others and they are not this good.
So from my experience, rest assured that your ears are probably not lying to you.
Dan

Quote:



I agree. Yes, we get "amazing" sounds and "amazing" measurements but the music is no more amazing than it is through a transistor radio. I remember a time when CD and audiophilia did not exist and music was so much more enjoyable, it was music, not data. You could upgrade your turntable/cartridge by a few dollars and actually "feel" a difference.

But I suppose if you are "feeling" or "reacting" more to the music with better equipment, then you probably never actually felt the music before. I would buy records because I wanted the song so I could play it whenever I wanted, to have that record, to hold it. If I were to hear The Rolling Stones "Satisfaction" over a $200,00 system, it would not "feel" any better (and probably worse) than it did when I first heard it over a cheezy radio when I was a small boy.

So on the topic, if I don't react and enjoy music, it is not because of the equipment, it is me having an "off" music day or expecting my equipment to "deliver the goods" rather than my brain/soul simply absorbing the music.

Just had to pipe in. I play bass violin for a living( with jazz artist Patricia Barber-and others). I'm also a budget audiophile,( low end Naim electronics and Proac speakers. I reccomend to friends to research stereo purchases, buy wisely, then don't step into a store or read a magazine for a few years. Most ( all ) stereo systems don't sound like live music. Which is not necessarily bad. Unless one is going to classical chamber music recitals, the music you hear live is going through a PA system that could be rivalled by a $100 boombox. I know. I played around the world at the mercy of pa guys that usually mix rock bands. Until we hired our own soundman that travels with us.My point is that at home you have the luxury of listening to a sound that could be much more satisfying than most live pop or jazz concerts. What you don't get is the direct emotional experience that you can't get with recordings. The problem with most hi-fi sound systems ( headphone or speaker) is that the sound is much more dramatic and overblown( highs and lows). I have the luxury of hearing what the insruments sound like when not going through pa's. Basses( electric or accoustic) are much less dramatic . I can't listen to large stereo speakers in general. My speakers are Proac Tablette Signatures. ( their best little speaker). It doesn't even have the lowest octave of bass. But the bass above that is correct.When the lowest one or two octaves of bass is overblown, it makes pitch and rythym obscured. So I'd rather miss the lowest bass in order to have the bass quality correct. Cymbals are not anywhere near as bright as most speakers or headphones would suggest. Most people that listen to stereos that haven't heard the instruments live would find the sound of a live ( no pa ) band bland and lackluster. Because most sound reproduction is exagerated. More spectacular. I get really fatigued listening to most stereos and headphones. I bought Beyer 990 pro's for use in the studio. The upper bass is very exagerated, but they don't have the exagerated upper mids and lower highs that other headphones have. So I can listen for a long time.My point is, aquaint yourself with the sound of unamplified instruments, and your listening priorities will change dramatically. When the tonal balance is right, your ears will get much less fatigued. Enjoy live music for the emotional ( and spiritual) experience. And don't stop in too many hi-fi stores or read too many magazines.

Quote:



Very good advice. Every Wednesday, there is an acoustic quartet (either brass or string) playing downstairs in the lobby of my office building. The headphones that most closely approximate that actual live sound of the instruments are Grado.

Quote:



No doubt it would end up being a very expensive audiophile
piece of wire.

I tend to view audio equipment for what it is:
[this applys to cd in the extreme]
A sound generator with recordings as the frequency and amplitude modifying program.
It, is the only real sound it makes.
If you listen to or play music your self in a live context this is real
also.
If you are regular participent in a live music context you can compare and judge or even measure what you feel sounds
realistic ie what pushes those emotional reminder buttons.

If you do not experience live context sound often what you
are really doing is sellecting the system that makes a nice
noise,as if in a musical context you were selecting a particular
model of violin for its particular sonic appeal.

I suppose in this context you could be said to be actually
participating in the musical event itself.