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Long awaited Smyth SVS Realiser NOW AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE - Page 121

post #1801 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsilvio View Post

Yeah, when you think about what you get home with after leaving AIX, it is quite a value. Given that i probably won't ever be able to have a quarter of a million dollar surround sound mastering studio in my home, this is as close as I'll get.
For those of you who think the realiser is only for multi channel, think again! I may never be able to listen to normal headphones again. Yes, it is that good. Also for those who wonder if the 009's make a difference, they most certainly do. I have tried several other phones including the hd800 and the jh3a with the realiser and they all pale in comparison. However, that doesn't mean the realiser doesn't do an excellent job with other phones. But if you want to get every last ounce of fidelity and the most accurate representation of the room and equipment you have captured, the 009's seem to be the way to go.
On another note, has anyone here thought about running the toslink out of the realiser to a reclocker to reduce jitter? From what I understand, HDMI isn't the most jitter free digital interface. I'm thinking that if you ran the toslink out to an apogee big Ben or empirical audio off ramp the sound might be even better. Plus the signal would go in toslink and be available as coax or aes out to your dac. Of course my perfect wave dac is suppose to take care of the jitter so may be a waste of money. Just a thought.

 

I'm not sure you really need a reclocker, but a great DAC would be very helpful.  I owned a really nice one in the past in a 2 channel speaker setup (Antelope's Trinity + 10m rubidium) and recently demo'd MSB's femtoclock (which installs inside the DAC), and they both definitely helped bring a more analog sound, but the biggest bang for the buck is a good DAC with a Toslink input (and a good DAC in theory should be able to handle jitter effectively; external clocks raise all sorts of issues given cabling, connections, distance from DAC chip etc).  So would strongly recommend good HDMI cable to the A8, a good Toslink cable out and a good DAC and you'll definitely see a big improvement in SQ. (plus what others mentioned above in terms of the actual amp+headphone combo... it's a slippery slope :) )

post #1802 of 2741

<<I have tried several other phones including the hd800 and the jh3a with the realiser and they all pale in comparison. However, that doesn't mean the realiser doesn't do an excellent job with other phones. But if you want to get every last ounce of fidelity and the most accurate representation of the room and equipment you have captured, the 009's seem to be the way to go.>>

 

Have you (or anyone) compared the stock STAX that come with the Realiser to the OO9s (or 007s)?  Just wondering if there is a big difference, or whether just going to STAX is the key difference.

post #1803 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverlight View Post

 

I'm not sure you really need a reclocker, but a great DAC would be very helpful.  I owned a really nice one in the past in a 2 channel speaker setup (Antelope's Trinity + 10m rubidium) and recently demo'd MSB's femtoclock (which installs inside the DAC), and they both definitely helped bring a more analog sound, but the biggest bang for the buck is a good DAC with a Toslink input (and a good DAC in theory should be able to handle jitter effectively; external clocks raise all sorts of issues given cabling, connections, distance from DAC chip etc).  So would strongly recommend good HDMI cable to the A8, a good Toslink cable out and a good DAC and you'll definitely see a big improvement in SQ. (plus what others mentioned above in terms of the actual amp+headphone combo... it's a slippery slope :) )

My Perfect Wave mark 2 Dac is a good dac and your probably right that it takes care of the jitter.  Just curious if anyone else has had that thought.  

post #1804 of 2741
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiritz View Post
Have you (or anyone) compared the stock STAX that come with the Realiser to the OO9s (or 007s)?  Just wondering if there is a big difference, or whether just going to STAX is the key difference.

 

Honestly, while the SR-207 headphone is pretty decent, it's not in the same class as the SR-007, and certainly not the SR-009.  And I'm not just talking about the price differential of $450 vs. $2650 vs. $5250.  The more expensive headphones DO PRODUCE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN SOUND, no matter what you're listening to... through the Realiser or just straight.  The conceptual sound field to your brain from these higher-end phones really "opens up" anything you play, no matter multi-channel via Realiser or 2-channel straight or SVS.  The source of the sound to your ears seems to move WAY OUTSIDE of your head.  It's very very different and exciting.

 

And don't forget that the solid state SRM-252S amp ($500) is also not in the same class as either the tube SRM-007tII ($2400) or solid state SRM-727II ($2200) amps.  And of course you also have the option of other, even more expensive and exotic non-Stax amps you can choose from if you want that purport to sound even better.

 

I'd say in order of "dramatic improvement" in any headphone experience, the HUGE (and very pricey, of course) step up to the high-end Stax headphone/amp systems is the #1 thing you can do.  Next would seem to be the use of a high-quality external DAC, either for feeding from the Realiser's optical output or for feeding direct from your disc player's optical or coax output for 2-channel stereo, where the relatively modest improvement over the Realier's internal DAC can be noticed.  And finally would be the use of the HDMI input to the Realiser, although there's honestly only a small marginal (but probably discernible) improvement over using the 8 analog inputs which already produces excellent results.

 

Improving any of the pieces is an improvement, but investing in a "real" amp/headphone is the key.  It will be a life investment for you, Realiser or not.


Edited by dsperber - 5/26/12 at 11:49am
post #1805 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsperber View Post

 

Honestly, while the SR-207 headphone is pretty decent, it's not in the same class as the SR-007, and certainly not the SR-009.  And I'm not just talking about the price differential of $450 vs. $2650 vs. $5250.  The more expensive headphones DO PRODUCE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN SOUND, no matter what you're listening to... through the Realiser or just straight.  The conceptual sound field to your brain from these higher-end phones really "opens up" anything you play, no matter multi-channel via Realiser or 2-channel straight or SVS.  The source of the sound to your ears seems to move WAY OUTSIDE of your head.  It's very very different and exciting.

 

And don't forget that the solid state SRM-252S amp ($500) is also not in the same class as either the tube SRM-007tII ($2400) or solid state SRM-727II ($2200) amps.  And of course you also have the option of other, even more expensive and exotic non-Stax amps you can choose from if you want that purport to sound even better.

 

I'd say in order of "dramatic improvement" in any headphone experience, the HUGE (and very pricey, of course) step up to the high-end Stax headphone/amp systems is the #1 thing you can do.  Next would seem to be the use of a high-quality external DAC, either for feeding from the Realiser's optical output or for feeding direct from your disc player's optical or coax output for 2-channel stereo, where the relatively modest improvement over the Realier's internal DAC can be noticed.  And finally would be the use of the HDMI input to the Realiser, although there's honestly only a small marginal (but probably discernible) improvement over using the 8 analog inputs which already produces excellent results.

 

Improving any of the pieces is an improvement, but investing in a "real" amp/headphone is the key.  It will be a life investment for you, Realiser or not.

Great information, as usual DS.  Thanks!  It's too bad though.  Now I have to think about the expense of going to the next level!

post #1806 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsperber View Post

And don't forget that the solid state SRM-252S amp ($500) is also not in the same class as either the tube SRM-007tII ($2400) or solid state SRM-727II ($2200) amps.  And of course you also have the option of other, even more expensive and exotic non-Stax amps you can choose from if you want that purport to sound even better.

 

 

Non-Stax amps are not more expensive if you build them yourself, I built mine for $1200. All very good components. A budget version of the KGSSHV could be done for $1000.

post #1807 of 2741

Quoting from other forum:

 

"I want to add an idea I had during my time with it, discussed with Lor and never had a time to test - taking secondary headphone readings as PRIRs, not HPEQs (the L/R readings would have to be worked out - possibly lifting off ears and slightly rotating). Maybe you'd never want your 009 or HD800 to sound like a T1or PS-1, but if you took your most resolving/expansive can, you may be able to emulate others. Thus a virtual headphone collection. Not the intended use (Lor looked confused why one would even want to try Posted Image ), but I think it may be possible. What do you guys think?"

 

 

post #1808 of 2741

Added a DAC to the system, Matrix Mini-i, can't say it sounds any different than it did before using the RCA's out of the Realiser as opposed to using the balanced XLR's out of the the Matrix. I think the Realiser has sufficient DAC's onboard and you would really be looking at a $5k DAC to gain that extra %5.

 

 

In my opinion the Headphones or speakers play the biggest role with the Realiser, I noticed a huge improvement when switching over to Stax.

post #1809 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMan View Post

Added a DAC to the system, Matrix Mini-i, can't say it sounds any different than it did before using the RCA's out of the Realiser as opposed to using the balanced XLR's out of the the Matrix. I think the Realiser has sufficient DAC's onboard and you would really be looking at a $5k DAC to gain that extra %5.

 

 

In my opinion the Headphones or speakers play the biggest role with the Realiser, I noticed a huge improvement when switching over to Stax.

Don't think you need to go to the 5K Dac to get a extra 5%, about a 1K will get you the extra 5% or more. Just wait till you get the SR-009's, I think you may change your mind. Anyway I don't think that the Matrix Mini-i has a HDMI input, so imo that is a unfair comparison. 

But yes as far as the Realiser's DAC chip goes, there is noting wrong with it.

 

The best and most important upgrade for the Realiser is the PRIR's, followed closely by headphones like the SR-009's. As far as a amp for the SR-009's, imo the solid state SRM-727 does a very nice job, and is a real bargain understanding that solid state amps are more expensive to build than a tube amp. That is to say for most of us that don't want to build the amp.  

post #1810 of 2741

After carefully A/Bing back and forth with a single DTS-MA test track, plugging the RCA's then back to the XLR's, I now can here there is a more powerfull sound through the XLR's. This was nicely explained in another thread.

 

"I believe that technically, double the voltage swing as signal input is x2 as compared to RCA; because XLR is pull and push (hot and cold will pull and push the signal). This gives us double the power. Using RCA only means that only half of each amp board in the KGSShv is amplifying the signal; either pull or push only depending whether you ground the hot or the cold.

 

Additionally, balanced will cancel out noise, whereas RCA would not.

 

In terms of sound, XLR should sound more powerful, especially when used with the hard to drive headphones (eg. O2mk1). Especially at the bass frequency, where the control comes."

 

As far as upgrading to a more expensive DAC, I am dubious if anything under $1500 is going to be much of an upgrade over the Matrix Mini-i.

 

After I have aquired all other system components, maybe then I will look at more expensive DAC's, I just think this is not the best place to be looking for major improvements "in this system".

post #1811 of 2741

My Realizer has been collecting dust since I have set up my proper 7.1 home theatre, with Pioneer flagship receiver, Oppo BDP95,  McIntosh and Rotel Power amps, Dynaudio Confidence C4 as front speakers and a bunch of Monitor Audio speakers as center and surround / surround back speakers, the Panasonic AE7000 3D Projector and a 140" projector screen. If anyone is interested in a used Realizer, let me know.

post #1812 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by googleli View Post

My Realizer has been collecting dust since I have set up my proper 7.1 home theatre, with Pioneer flagship receiver, Oppo BDP95,  McIntosh and Rotel Power amps, Dynaudio Confidence C4 as front speakers and a bunch of Monitor Audio speakers as center and surround / surround back speakers, the Panasonic AE7000 3D Projector and a 140" projector screen. If anyone is interested in a used Realizer, let me know.

 

PM sent.

post #1813 of 2741
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by googleli View Post

My Realizer has been collecting dust since I have set up my proper 7.1 home theatre, with Pioneer flagship receiver, Oppo BDP95,  McIntosh and Rotel Power amps, Dynaudio Confidence C4 as front speakers and a bunch of Monitor Audio speakers as center and surround / surround back speakers, the Panasonic AE7000 3D Projector and a 140" projector screen. If anyone is interested in a used Realizer, let me know.

 

PM sent.

post #1814 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverlight View Post

I'm not sure you really need a reclocker, but a great DAC would be very helpful.  I owned a really nice one in the past in a 2 channel speaker setup (Antelope's Trinity + 10m rubidium) and recently demo'd MSB's femtoclock (which installs inside the DAC), and they both definitely helped bring a more analog sound, but the biggest bang for the buck is a good DAC with a Toslink input (and a good DAC in theory should be able to handle jitter effectively; external clocks raise all sorts of issues given cabling, connections, distance from DAC chip etc).  So would strongly recommend good HDMI cable to the A8, a good Toslink cable out and a good DAC and you'll definitely see a big improvement in SQ. (plus what others mentioned above in terms of the actual amp+headphone combo... it's a slippery slope :) )

 

Do you think there will be a noticeable difference between going from:

PC(HDMI) -> Realiser -> Berkeley(Toslink) -> amp

vs.

PC -> Wavelink -> Berkeley (Coax) -> Realiser (RCA) -> amp

 

I'm unsure whether it'd be better to put the Berkeley before or after the Reaslier.  I had a chance to get a PRIR done and listen to a Reaslier and it was pretty impressive, but now I'm having trouble deciding between looking for a b-stock or HDMI version.

 

On one hand, it seems like a few people have previously posted that going from HDMI to the Reaslier gives a bit better clarity and soundstaging, but I've had really good experiences with the Wavelink into the Berkeley, and am wondering if feeding that into the Reaslier's analog input would be comparable or better.


Edited by Elysian - 6/4/12 at 2:50pm
post #1815 of 2741

The first option should sound better. Think of it this way. Option one goes

 

Digital > Analog

 

The second option is

 

Digital > Analog > Digital > Analog

 

How could the second scenario be Superior?

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