dual entry...what's the point?
Apr 2, 2009 at 8:14 PM Post #31 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif
yeah OK, maybe there's 1.5ft from L to R, and yes the cable is 10ft.....but considering electricity goes at the speed of light, does it even matter?

what do you mean "imbalance"? FR between the 2 drivers? phase correlation? net mass?

@mbd2884: I agree, you can hear what you "want" to hear(AMAGAD it's so much better, I actually didn't get conned w/ that $300 cryo cable after all
biggrin.gif
)

but well OFC w/ a high crystal count/thick gauge/too many strands will obviously sound worse than thin wire w/ less crystals and thinner gauge.

I've tried to document myself quite a bit on recabling lately, and the reason why they use high purity uber-thin wire to connect to the drivers is because of the skin effect...and it's apparently a good idea to have a thinner wire for the ground.

in another post you were talking about cheap cryo wire and furutech, do you have amy links to these low prices please
confused.gif


BTW, I've found this post very instructive :
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3160410-post13.html

Denon is using 7N-OFC for their D serie, but AT is using 8N-OFC for their voice coils : 8n-ofc - Google Search


Sorry, but there are some physical problems with this. First of all, you don't want to have uber-thin ground wire. You'll have a current overload and a short. If you have to have a beefy wire, ground should be it. Larger gauge wire also has significantly less resistance (R = pL/A <-- gauge). OFC isn't important, the process of getting copper oxygen free is. The process removes other impurities.

Skin effect is worse with stranded. In fact, litz braiding stranded wire is considered to be worse than non-braided stranded wire. Unless you litz braid everything that could possibly conduct current.
 
Apr 2, 2009 at 9:28 PM Post #32 of 42
ok, thanks for the feedback
wink.gif


from my experience and from the other guy's I quoted in my previous post, cables sound better w/o a shielding braid
confused.gif


ah well, I prefer to stick to stock cables and improve real stuff(dampening to kill cups resonances/leather ear pads/felt in front of the drivers to change the FR/angling drivers to widen the SS)....at least that's not esoteric stuff, I can hear the difference straight away, it doesn't force my brain to imagine stuff...it's real baby
biggrin.gif


and those very thick cables are a major pain on single entry, way too heavy...my 770 stock cable is so light that it feels wireless, I like it a lot
 
Apr 2, 2009 at 9:48 PM Post #33 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by jageur272 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Skin effect is worse with stranded. In fact, litz braiding stranded wire is considered to be worse than non-braided stranded wire. Unless you litz braid everything that could possibly conduct current.



I was under the impression that litz braids were invented specifically to counteract the skin effect....

Dave
 
Apr 2, 2009 at 10:16 PM Post #35 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif
For the sake of ease of calculation, assume that there's a meter of cable in the head band of a single entry headphone. That means that the signal gets to the right driver .000000003 seconds after it gets to the right. You'd need thousand of kilometers deference in length before anything would be audible.


LOL that has to be the most concise illustration I've heard on this issue thus far.
beyersmile.png


But...to take this a step further, if one were to do a recable, say with a different kind of wire, and not change out the wires from the entry point to the other side, would you hear a difference between drivers?
popcorn.gif
 
Apr 2, 2009 at 11:23 PM Post #36 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaubertuba /img/forum/go_quote.gif
to take this a step further, if one were to do a recable, say with a different kind of wire, and not change out the wires from the entry point to the other side, would you hear a difference between drivers?
popcorn.gif



now, you're being sarcastic
L3000.gif
 
Apr 2, 2009 at 11:26 PM Post #37 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaubertuba /img/forum/go_quote.gif
LOL that has to be the most concise illustration I've heard on this issue thus far.
beyersmile.png


But...to take this a step further, if one were to do a recable, say with a different kind of wire, and not change out the wires from the entry point to the other side, would you hear a difference between drivers?
popcorn.gif



As someone pointed out, my post wasn't perfect, at least for needing thousands of kilometers. If the cable gets long enough, resistance in the cable will attenuate the signal.

I know for house wiring the code is something along the lines of you need to increase the guage of wire for every 100 feet or so of run. I'm not sure of the exact distance. The same principle will apply with audio cable. Phase wouldn't be effected but volume would be lower in 1 ear cup. Still isn't a problem with the short distances we're talking about.
 
Apr 2, 2009 at 11:38 PM Post #38 of 42
Quote:

Originally Posted by myinitialsaredac /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I was under the impression that litz braids were invented specifically to counteract the skin effect....

Dave


Litz braiding was invented to reduce AC resistance in wires of identical cross section. Litz braiding with stranded isn't nearly as effective and also adds in interference (hall effect I think).

Of course, this is all theoretical. I always Litz braid because its pretty :p
 
Oct 15, 2010 at 7:43 PM Post #39 of 42
caveman bump
images

 
Damnegy said in another thread: 
 
damnegy said:
Just a small precision : if I recall well, I made an exercise in physics about the speed of the charges in a current, and it turned out that they move really slowly (4m/hour if my memory doesn't fail...)
Click to expand...

 
damnegy said:
 
(I'll try to find my exercise about the speed of the charges, but found these on Wikipedia (of course, many parameters influence the speed, but it is just for an image of circuitry) : 
Electric Current : Electric currents in solids typically flow very slowly. For example, in a copper wire of cross-section 0.5 mm2, carrying a current of 5 A, the drift velocity of the electrons is of the order of a millimetre per second.
Speed of electricity : When a DC voltage is applied the electrons will increase in speed proportional to the strength of the electric field. These speeds are on the order of millimeters per hour.
Click to expand...


Anyone'd feel like shedding some lights on this? Electrons move almost as fast as light, and the phase incoherence due to the delay between the 2 drivers shouldn't be noticeable by the human brain...that would supposedly not be very sensitive to this kind of phase "jitter"(heh)?
noxauror.gif

 
Oct 16, 2010 at 3:02 AM Post #40 of 42


Quote:
leeperry said:
caveman bump
images

 
Damnegy said in another thread: 
 
 

Anyone'd feel like shedding some lights on this? Electrons move almost as fast as light, and the phase incoherence due to the delay between the 2 drivers shouldn't be noticeable by the human brain...that would supposedly not be very sensitive to this kind of phase "jitter"(heh)?
noxauror.gif
Click to expand...


Lol, you did not quote the interesting part. I'll translate that part as it was in French : the information speed is about 273 000 km/s in copper. The charges though travel at around 60 cm/h in a copper cable.
 
Oct 16, 2010 at 6:01 AM Post #41 of 42
wow, i never knew just how slow the electrons actually move!  i guess it's like a stick a mile long, you prod one end and the other will instantly respond, but the stick only moves a cm a second or so but the information moves 1 mile per second - i was thinking why not get a stick over one light second long and use it to transfer information faster than light but something would probably make that theoretically impossible ^_^  Was never happy with thinking electrons moved near the speed of light, that's a hell of a lot of energy needed :p
 
Oct 22, 2010 at 4:38 PM Post #42 of 42
and these dual entry cables always end up tangled to death...d2k, ms1i, this is ridiculous.
 
let's not forget the Y connection on the sa5k and hd800, that is said to go AWOL at one time or another.
 
Denon boast about using two cables of the same length for improved SQ, and 6 months later:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top