Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Sound Science › dual entry...what's the point?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

dual entry...what's the point? - Page 3

post #31 of 42
4/2/09 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
yeah OK, maybe there's 1.5ft from L to R, and yes the cable is 10ft.....but considering electricity goes at the speed of light, does it even matter?

what do you mean "imbalance"? FR between the 2 drivers? phase correlation? net mass?

@mbd2884: I agree, you can hear what you "want" to hear(AMAGAD it's so much better, I actually didn't get conned w/ that $300 cryo cable after all )

but well OFC w/ a high crystal count/thick gauge/too many strands will obviously sound worse than thin wire w/ less crystals and thinner gauge.

I've tried to document myself quite a bit on recabling lately, and the reason why they use high purity uber-thin wire to connect to the drivers is because of the skin effect...and it's apparently a good idea to have a thinner wire for the ground.

in another post you were talking about cheap cryo wire and furutech, do you have amy links to these low prices please

BTW, I've found this post very instructive :
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3160410-post13.html

Denon is using 7N-OFC for their D serie, but AT is using 8N-OFC for their voice coils : 8n-ofc - Google Search
Sorry, but there are some physical problems with this. First of all, you don't want to have uber-thin ground wire. You'll have a current overload and a short. If you have to have a beefy wire, ground should be it. Larger gauge wire also has significantly less resistance (R = pL/A <-- gauge). OFC isn't important, the process of getting copper oxygen free is. The process removes other impurities.

Skin effect is worse with stranded. In fact, litz braiding stranded wire is considered to be worse than non-braided stranded wire. Unless you litz braid everything that could possibly conduct current.
Reply
post #32 of 42
4/2/09 at 6:28pm
Thread Starter 
ok, thanks for the feedback

from my experience and from the other guy's I quoted in my previous post, cables sound better w/o a shielding braid

ah well, I prefer to stick to stock cables and improve real stuff(dampening to kill cups resonances/leather ear pads/felt in front of the drivers to change the FR/angling drivers to widen the SS)....at least that's not esoteric stuff, I can hear the difference straight away, it doesn't force my brain to imagine stuff...it's real baby

and those very thick cables are a major pain on single entry, way too heavy...my 770 stock cable is so light that it feels wireless, I like it a lot
Reply
post #33 of 42
4/2/09 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jageur272 View Post
Skin effect is worse with stranded. In fact, litz braiding stranded wire is considered to be worse than non-braided stranded wire. Unless you litz braid everything that could possibly conduct current.

I was under the impression that litz braids were invented specifically to counteract the skin effect....

Dave
Reply
post #34 of 42
4/2/09 at 7:15pm
isnt the skin effect the problem of the signal travelling along "the skin" (outside diameter of the conductor) of the wire, and thus is found in solid core wires but the problem is eased by stranded?
Reply
post #35 of 42
4/2/09 at 7:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scompton View Post
For the sake of ease of calculation, assume that there's a meter of cable in the head band of a single entry headphone. That means that the signal gets to the right driver .000000003 seconds after it gets to the right. You'd need thousand of kilometers deference in length before anything would be audible.
LOL that has to be the most concise illustration I've heard on this issue thus far.

But...to take this a step further, if one were to do a recable, say with a different kind of wire, and not change out the wires from the entry point to the other side, would you hear a difference between drivers?
Reply
post #36 of 42
4/2/09 at 8:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaubertuba View Post
to take this a step further, if one were to do a recable, say with a different kind of wire, and not change out the wires from the entry point to the other side, would you hear a difference between drivers?
now, you're being sarcastic
Reply
post #37 of 42
4/2/09 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaubertuba View Post
LOL that has to be the most concise illustration I've heard on this issue thus far.

But...to take this a step further, if one were to do a recable, say with a different kind of wire, and not change out the wires from the entry point to the other side, would you hear a difference between drivers?
As someone pointed out, my post wasn't perfect, at least for needing thousands of kilometers. If the cable gets long enough, resistance in the cable will attenuate the signal.

I know for house wiring the code is something along the lines of you need to increase the guage of wire for every 100 feet or so of run. I'm not sure of the exact distance. The same principle will apply with audio cable. Phase wouldn't be effected but volume would be lower in 1 ear cup. Still isn't a problem with the short distances we're talking about.
Reply
post #38 of 42
4/2/09 at 8:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by myinitialsaredac View Post
I was under the impression that litz braids were invented specifically to counteract the skin effect....

Dave
Litz braiding was invented to reduce AC resistance in wires of identical cross section. Litz braiding with stranded isn't nearly as effective and also adds in interference (hall effect I think).

Of course, this is all theoretical. I always Litz braid because its pretty :P
Reply
post #39 of 42
10/15/10 at 4:43pm
Thread Starter 

caveman bump images?q=tbn:mZuo3JT36LZMBM

 

Damnegy said in another thread: 
 

Originally Posted by Damnegy View Post


Just a small precision : if I recall well, I made an exercise in physics about the speed of the charges in a current, and it turned out that they move really slowly (4m/hour if my memory doesn't fail...)

 

Originally Posted by Damnegy View Post

 

(I'll try to find my exercise about the speed of the charges, but found these on Wikipedia (of course, many parameters influence the speed, but it is just for an image of circuitry) : 

Electric Current : Electric currents in solids typically flow very slowly. For example, in a copper wire of cross-section 0.5 mm2, carrying a current of 5 A, the drift velocity of the electrons is of the order of a millimetre per second.

Speed of electricity : When a DC voltage is applied the electrons will increase in speed proportional to the strength of the electric field. These speeds are on the order of millimeters per hour.


Anyone'd feel like shedding some lights on this? Electrons move almost as fast as light, and the phase incoherence due to the delay between the 2 drivers shouldn't be noticeable by the human brain...that would supposedly not be very sensitive to this kind of phase "jitter"(heh)? [:noxauror]


Edited by leeperry - 10/15/10 at 4:47pm
Reply
post #40 of 42
10/16/10 at 12:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

caveman bump images?q=tbn:mZuo3JT36LZMBM

 

Damnegy said in another thread: 
 

 


Anyone'd feel like shedding some lights on this? Electrons move almost as fast as light, and the phase incoherence due to the delay between the 2 drivers shouldn't be noticeable by the human brain...that would supposedly not be very sensitive to this kind of phase "jitter"(heh)? [:noxauror]


Lol, you did not quote the interesting part. I'll translate that part as it was in French : the information speed is about 273 000 km/s in copper. The charges though travel at around 60 cm/h in a copper cable.

Reply
post #41 of 42
10/16/10 at 3:01am

wow, i never knew just how slow the electrons actually move!  i guess it's like a stick a mile long, you prod one end and the other will instantly respond, but the stick only moves a cm a second or so but the information moves 1 mile per second - i was thinking why not get a stick over one light second long and use it to transfer information faster than light but something would probably make that theoretically impossible ^_^  Was never happy with thinking electrons moved near the speed of light, that's a hell of a lot of energy needed :P

Reply
post #42 of 42
10/22/10 at 1:38pm
Thread Starter 

and these dual entry cables always end up tangled to death...d2k, ms1i, this is ridiculous.

 

let's not forget the Y connection on the sa5k and hd800, that is said to go AWOL at one time or another.

 

Denon boast about using two cables of the same length for improved SQ, and 6 months later: imagebam.com

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Sound Science
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Sound Science › dual entry...what's the point?