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24bit vs 16bit, the myth exploded! - Page 9  

post #121 of 3432
"Could you please go and look up the english work "hypocrite". So far you've called me a moron, a 12 year old and a liar."
Another english attack. I never called you a 12 yearold, i never called you a moron or a liar. I said IMO your opinions were moronic, and that you'd be lying if you said you can perfectly recreate bits that should have been there from nothing (because what is lost will vary). Keep your opinions all you want, what i have said may have lacked the technical terms and eloquence but they are far from wrong. You cannot recreate what does not exist. Having it there in the first place is the superior option. Enjoy your 16bit audio forever. When higher fidelity sound becomes available for consumer playback and is plausible, I will probably enjoy it just as much
post #122 of 3432
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDBacklash View Post
"Could you please go and look up the english work "hypocrite". So far you've called me a moron, a 12 year old and a liar."
Another english attack. Keep your opinions all you want, what i have said may have lacked the technical terms and eloquence but they are far from wrong.
You nearly got your English right but I think you meant to end your last sentence with "but they are far from right"?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDBacklash View Post
I was pretty disgusted by how blatantly he was trying to force his opinion on people on an undoubtedly grey area (at this point in time).
I have not forced my opinion on anyone, I have mearly stated the facts of digital audio theory. It's not difficult to understand, the theory was invented and then the technology was developed from the theory and what do you know, the technology works! Where is the grey area and why should it be "at this point in time" when the theory is over 80 years old and the technology nearly 40 years old?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDBacklash View Post
You cannot recreate what does not exist. Having it there in the first place is the superior option.
Have you ever actually heard of the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem? I put a link to an explanation of it on my last message. Go away and read it as you are just making a complete fool of yourself!

G
post #123 of 3432
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorio View Post
You nearly got your English right but I think you meant to end your last sentence with "but they are far from right"?!
.
NC
hydrogenaudioforums. go there, im sure they'll enjoy being lectured by you
You have not stated fact. You have tried to pass off 24bit audio as a mere gimick that only allows an extra dynamic range when it has the potential to be so much more. Please do a test (double blind if you like) with a test tone and tell me you do not hear a difference.
post #124 of 3432
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDBacklash View Post
What does join date have to do with anything? (other than nothing).
If anyone is going to be a troll, it isn't going to be someone who has a fairly long posting history, it's going to be some newb trying to stir the pot.

Quote:
I am also aware that I said something about his opinion first, because I was pretty disgusted by how blatantly he was trying to force his opinion (not to mention itd be amazing if he could preempt my post) on people on an undoubtedly grey area (at this point in time).
It's not a grey area - it's simple physics. Just because it's a grey area in your mind, doesn't mean it's a grey area in reality. Get over yourself and your own opinion. You're 21, not god.

Quote:
Since then the thread has degraded into tit-for-tat pseudo-flaming which is why I am now ejecting myself. I have said what I wanted to said and am going to leave it at that.
Which you started. And since this is the second time you've claimed you were going to end the argument, I'm not holding my breathe.

Quote:
Please keep your personal attacks away from me.
Oh, that's the pot calling the kettle black.
post #125 of 3432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutz View Post
It's not a grey area - it's simple physics. Just because it's a grey area in your mind, doesn't mean it's a grey area in reality. Get over yourself and your own opinion. You're 21, not god.
If it is simple physics then why do people not want to believe supersonic frequencies affecting the sound of audible frequencies? You see it all the time with frequencies interfering with eachother. So what makes it so improbable that frequencies we cannot hear will not affect frequencies we can. Theres a large gap between a live sound and a digital sound. pure 16 bit signal is far noisier than pure 24bit. That will affect hte overall sound as well - whether you can pick it or not, it IS. It's a bit strange to preemptively dismiss something because it seems irrelevant now. The logical thing to do is move forward, which the OP seems to not want to do.
The grey area is whether or not the difference is audible to the human ear- which i believe i stated quite clearly MANY times.
There is nothing "physics" about perception unless you want to get into quantum realities which has nothing to do with this.
Some members here seem to be beyond reason when they want to say that new technologies are futile. Okay, Final Eject.
post #126 of 3432
We got it. Let us make our own decisions. You don't necessarily need to win others, and you won't be able to do if all you do is repeatedly tell us to trust our own ears.
post #127 of 3432
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDBacklash View Post
Okay, Final Eject.
This is the third time you've claimed to be leaving the discussion. I still don't believe you.

All of the things you are accusing others of doing, you are in fact doing yourself.

Again, for emphasis: You are the pot calling the kettle black.
post #128 of 3432
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDBacklash View Post
NC
hydrogenaudioforums. go there, im sure they'll enjoy being lectured by you
You have not stated fact. You have tried to pass off 24bit audio as a mere gimick that only allows an extra dynamic range when it has the potential to be so much more. Please do a test (double blind if you like) with a test tone and tell me you do not hear a difference.
I never said it or implied it was a gimmick, on the contrary it is as I have stated previously, incredibly useful (but not as a playback format), I've used 24bit professionally since you were about 3 years old! Go and read the damn thread!

24bit does not have the potential for anything other than dynamic range. Please give me the name of your lecturer and the college where you studied.

Hydrogen audio Forums. Is Bob Katz or Nika Aldrich still on there, two of the world's leading authorities on digital audio? It was Nika who taught me this stuff (when you were about 9 years old) and if you spout your mis-information to Bob Katz (the most respected mastering engineer on the planet) and call him a liar or imply he doesn't know what he is talking about, you will quickly find yourself way more insulted than you could possibly imagine!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDBacklash View Post
Some members here seem to be beyond reason when they want to say that new technologies are futile.
Oh dear, you can't even get this right. Higher than 16bit technology is nearly 20 years old. In terms of digital technology, 20 years is not a new technology but an old technology. It's obviously quite new to you though, judging by your understanding of it!

The one true thing you have said is that 16bit is way noisier than 24bit. What you failed to mention is that it's 48dB noiser (without the use of noise shaped dither) and that the 48dB of noise starts at -96dB (or -120dB perceptually with noise shaped dither). You tell me who is going to notice noise 60dB below the quietest signal in the most dynamic commercial recording. In fact noise lower than -120dB is roughly the same level of noise caused by the electrons colliding inside a single 3k resistor. If you can do a DBT where you can hear the noise of a single resistor and differentiate it from all the other resistors and circuitry in your signal chain, I will personally write to the Guiness Book of Records on your behalf. Where did I get this figure of 120dB (150dB in some frequency bands) perceptual dynamic range from 16bit? I'm quoting from Bob Katz, now go and argue with him!!

G
post #129 of 3432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutz View Post
you were going to end the argument, I'm not holding my breathe.
Dude! it's breath! your english sucks, go away...
Of course, I'm joking, so please don't hurt me.
post #130 of 3432
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDBacklash View Post
If it is simple physics then why do people not want to believe supersonic frequencies affecting the sound of audible frequencies? You see it all the time with frequencies interfering with eachother. So what makes it so improbable that frequencies we cannot hear will not affect frequencies we can. Theres a large gap between a live sound and a digital sound. pure 16 bit signal is far noisier than pure 24bit. That will affect hte overall sound as well - whether you can pick it or not, it IS. It's a bit strange to preemptively dismiss something because it seems irrelevant now. The logical thing to do is move forward, which the OP seems to not want to do.
The grey area is whether or not the difference is audible to the human ear- which i believe i stated quite clearly MANY times.
There is nothing "physics" about perception unless you want to get into quantum realities which has nothing to do with this.
Some members here seem to be beyond reason when they want to say that new technologies are futile. Okay, Final Eject.
Huh? You can't hear a frequency higher than the audible range just because it is superimposed on a lower frequency.
post #131 of 3432
I love gregorios posts. Helps me focus on listening to the music rather than worry about the myths some audiophiles perpetuate.
post #132 of 3432
Folks we're going to have to try a little harder to find a more civil tone (be it in 16 bit or 24 bit word length).
post #133 of 3432
Quote:
Originally Posted by elrod-tom View Post
Folks we're going to have to try a little harder to find a more civil tone (be it in 16 bit or 24 bit word length).
groaaaan.
post #134 of 3432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleatoris View Post
groaaaan.
I know...couldn't resist.

In all seriousness, I don't like some of the namecalling and such that I'm seeing here. If y'all want to keep discussing this, keep it civil.

Thanks.
post #135 of 3432
Hello elrod-tom, what's you current headphone listening setup? Not your bedside or work rig, the main one, in case you have multiple setups. Curious what someone who is clearly focused on the music uses, thanks.
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