Do Interconnects Impact SQ in an Audio Chain?
Jan 15, 2009 at 8:17 PM Post #61 of 211
Quote:

Originally Posted by NajoBB /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Ok, this is the most ridiculous post I've seen for a while. Thanks for putting me on that list even if you cant see this. I fell stupid right now for arguing with someone like you.


From what I've seen, if you agree with him he'll call you smart, however if you disagree he'll argue with you, blame everyone for arguing with him (while he's the one starting the argument) and say some sort of curt and abrasive thing implying you're hopelessly outclassed and misinformed
popcorn.gif
 
Jan 15, 2009 at 8:20 PM Post #62 of 211
Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif
...Still, signal altering cable doesnt really do what interconnects originally were supposed to do.


I think what he meant was that alterations are inevitable. Like there's no neutral source, amp or sound transducer, although they all* are produced with the goal of minimizing colorations. (* there are exceptions)

Indeed every hi-fi component I have encountered has altered the sound more or less in one or the other way (to my ears). Cables are no exception.
.
 
Jan 15, 2009 at 8:20 PM Post #63 of 211
To Najobb and olblueyez

Personally I think ignore feature is often used bit too hastily, in this case too. It does nothing but close your eyes on the problem... You had a disagreement, so what? People cant have differing views? Thats just my opinion though...
 
Jan 15, 2009 at 8:21 PM Post #64 of 211
Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I think what he meant was that alterations are inevitable. Like there's no neutral source, amp or sound transducer, although they all* are produced with the goal of minimizing colorations. (* there are exceptions)

Indeed every hi-fi component I have encountered has altered the sound more or less in one or the other way (to my ears). Cables are no exception.
.




Aaaa... Now I see where he is coming from. Thanks for clarification.
smily_headphones1.gif
Still, INTENTIONALLY designing a cable that alters the signal feels oxymoron.
 
Jan 15, 2009 at 8:51 PM Post #65 of 211
Quote:

Originally Posted by csroc /img/forum/go_quote.gif
From what I've seen, if you agree with him he'll call you smart, however if you disagree he'll argue with you, blame everyone for arguing with him (while he's the one starting the argument) and say some sort of curt and abrasive thing implying you're hopelessly outclassed and misinformed
popcorn.gif



I got a similar impression and i really don't like that kind of persons. Anyway, i don't care anymore.
 
Jan 15, 2009 at 8:58 PM Post #66 of 211
Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Aaaa... Now I see where he is coming from. Thanks for clarification.
smily_headphones1.gif
Still, INTENTIONALLY designing a cable that alters the signal feels oxymoron.


Physics conveys that every signal would alter a signal to some degree. The argument here is that some may alter it in certain ways or to a lesser degree, which some hear as highs/soundstage/attack etc.
Saying that cabling was designed to not alter a signal is actually an impossible feat. Cables have to alter a signal inherently (even if the cable doesn't directly any source around it will to some degree etc.) so a possible reason for cables to sound "different" is that they may alter the signal in different ways.
Or for those who disbelieve, psychoacoustic/placebo effect may affect people in different ways.

Cheers,
Dave
 
Jan 15, 2009 at 9:01 PM Post #67 of 211
Certainly a cable may affect something in transmission, however to really understand whether that matters to a listener, you need to know what the threshold of change for audibility is, and determine how that change in transmission in a cable affects the actual reproduced frequencies. Put simply the question is whether those changes are audible.

Of course one can simply do double blind testing on all varieties of cables and not worry about the measurements and whatnot and determine whether two cables are audibly different that way.
 
Jan 15, 2009 at 9:08 PM Post #68 of 211
Quote:

Originally Posted by csroc /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Certainly a cable may affect something in transmission, however to really understand whether that matters to a listener, you need to know what the threshold of change for audibility is, and determine how that change in transmission in a cable affects the actual reproduced frequencies. Put simply the question is whether those changes are audible.

Of course one can simply do double blind testing on all varieties of cables and not worry about the measurements and whatnot and determine whether two cables are audibly different that way.


Ahh I have given this a bit of thought, and I've taken a few measurements using a pulse generator and an oscilloscope of various interconnects and was able to see electrical differences. That said, we end up in the realm of whether or not those differences are audible. Unfortunately double blind testing is still qualitative.

To gain quantitative data on whether or not they can be heard one would need a human head, a sound isolated room, a transducer set, amp, dac, source, the mic, and then various interconnects. Reminds me a bit of.... never mind
evil_smiley.gif


Dave
 
Jan 15, 2009 at 9:18 PM Post #69 of 211
Yes they're two different approaches which ultimately tell you different things.

Similar to the world of color and color matching, etc. there are many measurable differences in colors but do they meet or exceed the just noticeable difference?
 
Jan 15, 2009 at 10:36 PM Post #70 of 211
Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Aaaa... Now I see where he is coming from. Thanks for clarification.
smily_headphones1.gif
Still, INTENTIONALLY designing a cable that alters the signal feels oxymoron.


Thats all I was getting at.
 
Jan 15, 2009 at 10:51 PM Post #71 of 211
Quote:

Originally Posted by csroc /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yes they're two different approaches which ultimately tell you different things.

Similar to the world of color and color matching, etc. there are many measurable differences in colors but do they meet or exceed the just noticeable difference?


Im curious, your saying the colorations we are talking about are beyond human hearing or very slight as to be extremely hard to notice? Are you also saying that Placebo has a greater effect than actual coloration by the cable?
 
Jan 15, 2009 at 11:18 PM Post #72 of 211
That's the possibility which I am talking about. You can go out on the great wide interwebs and find many people discussing cables (or sonic differences between DACs, amplifiers etc) and there will be staunch naysayers as well as those who will insist they hear differences.

Sometimes there really are differences anyone without significant hearing loss should be able to hear. Other times a person who has claimed there are clear differences between things (such as two cables) will not be able to reliably distinguish that difference in a double blind test. That result applies to that person alone, you'd have to test other people to see if it's more generalizable. Performing measurements and knowing something about the limits of human hearing can lead to similar conclusions though.
 
Jan 15, 2009 at 11:33 PM Post #73 of 211
Ok, I am with you on that. Do you think its possible for much greater potential when trying to tell the difference if the listener uses one cable for a month and plays the same 20 songs over and over before changing to the second cable?
 
Jan 16, 2009 at 12:33 AM Post #74 of 211
Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Ok, I am with you on that. Do you think its possible for much greater potential when trying to tell the difference if the listener uses one cable for a month and plays the same 20 songs over and over before changing to the second cable?


Likely, repetition really helps memory.

Dave
 
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