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USB cable and Sound Quality - Page 8  

post #106 of 134

Would there be any merit to the idea that perhaps the cable/wire quality might affect not the digital signal but the neutral ground instead? Aren't all grounds on a system interconnected? Not sure how USB works on a physical level so this might be an insane thought. Any correlation there? Im thinking that may add noise but not necessarily coloration in the audio itself, but perhaps this is part of what people are hearing?

Am I completely wrong here?

(I dont have one and im just thinking of getting a USB audio interface, so I cant actually perform the "ear" test yet).

One more thought, if you could convince yourself (by paying money or whatever other mental mechanisms you could think of) that your car was cooler than it is, that your wife was hotter, that your income was enough, wouldn't you do it too??? If money can buy you happiness then why not? Go for it!

If you can listen to that music just as beautifully (and without noise) with the cheap USB cable, then you area already there too  (and saved some cash for something else)!

Happy listening folks!

-ff

post #107 of 134

haters gotta hate.

 

All who disagree just want to disagree because they don't bother to try it out.

There is a difference, whether the price is worth it or not, well thats up to person to decide.

 

But if you don't try it, A/B it..you have no right to claim that there is "no difference" because you have to be deaf to say it ain't so.

post #108 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by weibby View Post

haters gotta hate.

 

All who disagree just want to disagree because they don't bother to try it out.

There is a difference, whether the price is worth it or not, well thats up to person to decide.

 

But if you don't try it, A/B it..you have no right to claim that there is "no difference" because you have to be deaf to say it ain't so.

 


 

post #109 of 134

Now, don't go and try to have a rational discussion or something like that...  (said tongue in cheek, light humor, albeit with a dose of reality) 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by weibby View Post

haters gotta hate.

 

All who disagree just want to disagree because they don't bother to try it out.

There is a difference, whether the price is worth it or not, well thats up to person to decide.

 

But if you don't try it, A/B it..you have no right to claim that there is "no difference" because you have to be deaf to say it ain't so.

post #110 of 134

I tried it out to see if i could hear a difference i used a E7 and it's stock cable and this lindy 1, http://www.lindy.co.uk/05m-premium-gold-usb-cable-type-a-to-mini-b/37660.html , the E7's stock cable is thinner and longer and has 2 ferrites on it, probley isn't using a copper core aswell, the result was the lindy cable had a slightly more fuller sound, maybe with more higher end equipment the difference might be bigger but i can't imagion with any equipment its a massive difference in sound worth hundreds of pounds, personally il stick with cables in the £20-40 price range, i was looking at the higher end usb cables and this is how wireworld is marketing there's,

 

Quote:

 

It's not just 1's and 0's, it's the timing!!

There is a fundamental difference between the transfer of computer data and digital audio signals. Computers are able to transfer digital data without loss, because the data moves in the robust form of blocks, which do not depend on specific timing between the sending and receiving devices. However, digital audio signals are continuous streams of data, which are quite fragile, since the digital processor must remain perfectly locked onto the timing of the signal to avoid data losses.

The Limitations of digital audio processors and cables create timing errors known as jitter, which remove portions of the audio signal and replace them with noise and distortion. Cables tend to round off the square waveforms of the signal, making them less clear to the processor, thus increasing jitter. This rounding effect varies greatly among cables and a truly superior digital audio cable can make great improvements in sound quality.

WireWorld digital audio cables utilize unique designs specifically developed to minimize jitter by providing sharper, cleaner leading edges on the digital waveform. At each price level, they provide the lowest jitter available, producing distinct improvements in clarity, image focus, smoothness and dynamic range.

WireWorld USB cables feature a unique flat design that reduces jitter to provide improved sound quality in media server, PC audio, and other digital music applications. Our unique flat cable design not only improves performance, but it allows you to connect digital music devices over longer distances – for instance, a laptop PC across the room from the home theater system.  

 

 

 Whether theres any truth in that i don't know.

 

post #111 of 134

Sorry, but i have yet to see anything that rules out placebo/psychoacoustic/purchase justification as good reasosn why one USB cable can sound slightly different from another.

post #112 of 134

Any1 seen the usb cable reviews on http://www.whathifi.com , here's 1 http://www.whathifi.com/Review/Audioquest-Forest-USB-15/ , it says Quote:

 The AudioQuest Forest is very affordable by standalone cable standards, and it offers all-round improvements over bundled cables.

Detail levels are markedly improved, there’s greater precision and punch, and a general upgrade in musical expressiveness.

 

 and this 1 http://www.whathifi.com/Review/Wireworld-Ultraviolet-5-USB/ ,

 

Quote:
 The gains in low-end body and punch, midrange spaciousness and detail, and high-end smoothness alone are significant.

 

Can they really hear them differences.

post #113 of 134

I am not going to debate the USB cable's effect on sound, but I am going to explain how USB works. 

USB's data are packetized. This means all the 1 and o are packaged together as a single message. This works like your Internet connection. 

If we use water as an analogy, USB data does not pass through the wire like a pipe. But it is more like the water is packaged in a bottle and then passed down the line.

So if you take the bottled water home in a Mercedes and it tasted better then a Honda carried water, then a boutique USB cable might be for you. For me I can't tell the difference.


Edited by dvw - 11/12/10 at 5:08pm
post #114 of 134

Those USB cable reviews cracked me up a while back just because the writers were savagely beset upon by anti-cablers.  There's so many <$100, well engineered, machine made USB cables out there like the Cardas Clear and Furutech GT2 that it's not a huge risk to try one out.  

post #115 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvw View Post

I am not going to debate the USB cable's effect on sound, but I am going to explain how USB works. 

USB's data are packetized. This means all the 1 and o are packaged together as a single message. This works like your Internet connection. 

If we use water as an analogy, USB data does not pass through the wire like a pipe. But it is more like the water is packaged in a bottle and then passed down the line.

So if you take the bottled water home in a Mercedes and it tasted better then a Honda carried water, then a boutique USB cable might be for you. For me I can't tell the difference.

 

USB data is only in packets for block mode data transfers, like connecting up a hard drive and sending files.  This is a huge misconception.  For USB audio it is in streaming mode, so things are time sensitive and easily corrupted, compared to other sorts of USB connections.  Digital data despite being "0's and 1's" can have the signal change and/or lose data, it's not literally 0's and 1's going through the cable but a square wave.  It's more like drinking water from a cup vs. an old shoe.  
 

post #116 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootermafia View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by dvw View Post

I am not going to debate the USB cable's effect on sound, but I am going to explain how USB works. 

USB's data are packetized. This means all the 1 and o are packaged together as a single message. This works like your Internet connection. 

If we use water as an analogy, USB data does not pass through the wire like a pipe. But it is more like the water is packaged in a bottle and then passed down the line.

So if you take the bottled water home in a Mercedes and it tasted better then a Honda carried water, then a boutique USB cable might be for you. For me I can't tell the difference.

 

USB data is only in packets for block mode data transfers, like connecting up a hard drive and sending files.  This is a huge misconception.  For USB audio it is in streaming mode, so things are time sensitive and easily corrupted, compared to other sorts of USB connections.  Digital data despite being "0's and 1's" can have the signal change and/or lose data, it's not literally 0's and 1's going through the cable but a square wave.  It's more like drinking water from a cup vs. an old shoe.  
 

USB2.0 is about 500Mbps, USB3.0 is around 5Gbps, Audio streaming at high res is 12Mbps. How does audio stream sync to the time? There is a major rate mismatch here.

Here's the USB audio spec.

 

There is a tutorial on Silabs. You'll need to google for AN295.
post #117 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootermafia View Post

Those USB cable reviews cracked me up a while back just because the writers were savagely beset upon by anti-cablers.  There's so many <$100, well engineered, machine made USB cables out there like the Cardas Clear and Furutech GT2 that it's not a huge risk to try one out.  


What Hifi have also given 5 star reviews to some very cheap cables, such as from the ebay seller ThatCable.

post #118 of 134

I have a Kimber usb ag and i am very happy with it ,before i had a stock usb with my benchmark dac 1 usb, I think good usb makes sound different "better"? yes it does.

post #119 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahesh View Post

I have a Kimber usb ag and i am very happy with it ,before i had a stock usb with my benchmark dac 1 usb, I think good usb makes sound different "better"? yes it does.



But Elias Gwin from Benchmark has stated that any cable will do. Assuming the likes of jitter is actually audible and is a sound degredation problem, the DAC deals with it anyway. So you may feel better about your cable, but it does not work any better than another USB.

post #120 of 134

What effect does the matrial used in a usb cable have on the sound, if silver is used instead of copper would the signal get to the dac quicker (less resistance).

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