What vintage records are you looking at that cost $100? I can only think of a tiny pile of records that merit that kind of price, and most of them are expensive because of the cover, not the record itself. Perhaps you're dealing with the wrong dealers.

To find a good dealer, you have to think like one. Look for someone who knows their stuff and has a huge personal collection that is pretty much static in size. You've more likely to find fair prices and good quality than from someone who is buying batches and cherry picking to fill in their own collection.

Also avoid dealers that do a lot of ebay business out of a storefront. The good stuff will go to ebay and the junk will go to the bins.

See ya
Steve

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Sorry Steve, I was being a bit facetious with the $100 record statement. I basically meant that I've seen some vintage records go for really high prices ($60-70), and even saw a select few on ebay that went for $100. I would never pay that much for a record. Thanks for the advice on dealers, though. That makes a lot of sense.

Like 90% of my favorite bands, all the albums are out of print and less than 1000 copies were made. They have fairly substantial amounts of fans in most cases, so those few copies fetch a substantial amount, and aren't to be found in any vintage record stores.

Try and find Olivia Tremor Control - Black Foliage Volume 1 on vinyl for under $50, or Dusk at Cubist Castle.

The Gerbils - Are You Sleepy, another of my favorite albums, is only to be found for $80+ as there were only 750 copies pressed.

Hell even albums like Ok Computer are hard to find cheap. Until the reissues August 19th that is!

Basically this means that if i do finally hunt down a copy, it sucks if it is one of the bad ones.

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You're right of course these arn't rare and there were audiophile pressings of some of these at least to begin with, but for things like Peter Gabriel's "So" the newer pressing would probably be better than the original as it was made in the mid '80s when they were trying to kill off vinyl production. There was nothing wrong with the mastering as I remember, just the quality of the vinyl used was much worse than what you'd buy today, so well worth buying the re-issue for Gabriel fans.

The mid '80s is the only time I can really recall returning records due to pressing issues and it was completely down to the poor quality vinyl.

But I never stopped buying them and the quality has been much better since about the mid '90s as it's progressed into more of a niche market.

Your experiences over the last few months therefore, while unfortunate, are not wholly representative, as far as I can see and as we've said before I think you were just particularly unlucky, buying a lot of duds from a bad batch. I would complain vociferously to Classic or whoever about this as it's really not acceptable.

Rarer stuff I'd pay top dollar for like Ellen McIlwaine ( highly recommended BTW) where she still has original unopened '70s pressings so you can compare these to new repressings and the new ones are generally higher quality.

On the whole new vinyl I've bought has been about 90-95% flawless and flaws are as likely to have been mastering related (recently Goldfrapp) as anything else.

I understand what you are getting at. But my own experience is all I have to go on when judging the quality of new vinyl. I also understand that not everyone will have a similar experience. Rest assured that I have complained to Classic Records, repeatedly, and my complaints have been met with stony silence (I wish their records were as quiet). Since the dealers won't take the albums back after 30 days and Classic Records has all but ignored my pleas for assistance, I ended up throwing about $300 in bad 200 gram records into the trash.

Then I started having a lot of problems with other vinyl pressings, such as Blue Note and OJC reissues on regular vinyl. Suffice it to say that it dampened my enthusiasm for new vinyl. So my problems have not been with just Classic Records. I have also had a couple of problems with Speakers Corner fairly recently, too, which until lately I have had terrific experiences with. But I did manage to get Acoustic Sounds to send replacements for those albums. I have 3 bad OJC reissues that still need to go back to them, out of an order of 7 albums, as soon as I can make it to the post office.

Simply put, I do not trust that the reliability of new vinyl pressings (audiophile or otherwise) is sufficiently high to ensure that the probability of a dud showing up at my door is at a level that is acceptable to me. That the labels do not seem to be interested in addressing customer complaints about quality is a concern that I cannot ignore. I know that others will have a different experience, which I have no trouble accepting. But I can only make decisions based on what is happening to me.

To top it all off I have a dealer telling me that I should expect a standard pressing to sound bad with lots of clicks and pops. I can assure you that this was not the state of the art in the 1970s, and I can further say that I will no longer be doing business with that dealer.

I am still buying vintage vinyl, but am applying what I regard to be some sensible precautions. I now prefer to buy larger bulk lots of 50 or more records for small money when I can find them. I end up throwing a lot of records out because they are either bad or I give away the ones I don't want, but the ones I keep are great and my per-record cost ends up being very small, usually between $2 and $3. I will also buy on eBay from a few sellers I trust, but I won't pay more than $10 for any record regardless of what it is.

Perhaps my experience with new vinyl is not representative, but I don't think it's necessarily unique based on other Head-Fi member complaints.

--Jerome

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That's pretty appalling. I would have expected more from them. Not surprised you're annoyed. When ever I've had bad pressings vendors have always been only too willing to replace them, I can only think they are perhaps a small outfit and are victims of their own success insofar as they have grown too quickly and just can't keep up with maintaining their standards which is a real shame.

A few comments:
Steelglam - Sorry, I mistook what you wrote initially and thought that with your current TT setup all of your records were playing poorly. Bad wiring has to effect any record you play. Given what you said about the shop that installed the new cart, I would find another local hi-fi shop that excels in creating and preserving solid relationships with customers. And I mean a place where you feel absolutely comfortable sitting for hours on end, a place whose employees answer your questions honestly, don't make you feel stupid, and don't try to upsell you every other sentence. I know, sounds like a formidable task, but shops like this do exist. (In what general area do you reside?)

On the subject of new vinyl vs. used, bad pressings, poor customer service, etc. - I think we have probably all had similar frustrations, hopes, and partings with our hard earned cash. Maybe none as extreme as some people's. When it comes down to my reasons for buying vinyl, old or new, 200g or Japanese re-issues, it can be summed up as purely emotional. I love wax. I love the packaging, the large photos, the liner notes, the fact that you can see the music imprinted in the wax (and let's not forget the inscriptions! Porky Prime Cuts!) - no CD release can compare; they don't provide me with that gorgeous tactile feeling, like you're holding a wholly intimate piece of art - an invitation to completely explore the artists' intentions. And, of course, I love the sound of vinyl... there just seems to be something so much more humanist about the process of playing an LP and how you listen. I find I am more attentive, more involved with the equipment and therefore more active in my listening.
I know I must sound slightly unhinged. And maybe I am when it comes to vinyl - I know most of my friends' eyes start glazing when I start playing records for them! Anyway, for the above reasons, I am willing to endure a few hiccups here and there and do think vinyl lovers owe it to the medium to support the labels that are trying to put it back on the map. Sure, the majors are still testing out the market and I am very sorry to hear about the disappointing experience with Classic (I have had the opposite experience) - but I think we would all lose out if vinyl remained a niche product or started to disappear again. I'm not advocating for complacency when it comes to shoddy pressings, what I am advocating is communicating to labels like Classic that we want to purchase their releases, but they better be damn good! Let's not give up!

Sorry for the outpouring of vinyl love, but I just can't help it sometimes. And for those of you within the NY, NJ, PA area the absolute best record shop around (in my humble opinion) has got to be the Princeton Record Exchange. No BS, honest grading and prices and knowledgeable (if sometimes off-putting) staff. I have been shopping there for the past 20 years and have come across absolute gems, regardless of genre, that were priced almost 50% of what a place like Bleeker Street Bob's would sell for. Case in point: Pixies "Death to the Pixies" 10" vinyl boxset sealed for $34.99 - on ebay, Gemm and the like, it can be seen going for well over $100, graded at VG! Okay, I must stop writing.
Cheers!

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If there are a few specific albums you want that aren't available on CD and the used prices are excessive, get someone with a good turntable and computer to digitize a copy for you.

You also might want to broaden your musical tastes to include music that isn't so difficult to find. There's a ton of incredibly wonderful music in the dollar bins.

See ya
Steve

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I have that album on a British pressing and it sounds great. But there's no point getting that particular record on LP. That album was mixed and mastered digitally. A CD would be a much more accurate copy of the album than an analogue transcription to LP.

See ya
Steve

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Second and triple that! Did I mention Princeton's unfathomably large collection of 99¢ LPs?

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Those are pressings I have been wanting to buy (even with their ridiculously high prices) but have been scared away because the hit and miss record of 200 gram Classic's. It is reassuring to know that you had good results. Maybe if I can get a local shop to agree about a return policy up front, I'll spring for one of the Dylan boxes.

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That's interesting to hear because Lost Highway is one of the labels I have always had great luck with. It just goes to show how random the quality control is. Something like that I guess really boils down to the individual working that particular shift at the RTI plant. Good help is hard to find.

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I think your question got lost in the ever changing seas of analog joy and vinyl woe. I have only had first hand experience with Grado's, and so I can't really compare the two. My guess is that memepool could more than likely give you better insight. The thing to keep in mind about Grado's is that they unshielded, so they are prone to humming. Since you have a direct drive table, it is quite possible that the motor would induce a hum, and so the Shure may be a safer choice.

Dealing with surface noise is more of a stylus issue than a cartridge issue. And it depends on the type of surface damage. An elliptical stylus is most apt to help reduce continuous surface noise. A spherical will be better at reducing the size of pops and clicks.

See ya
Steve

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That is true. I know the Benz Micro cartridge I have is the most tolerant to surface noise compared to any others I have had previously. The stylus is a "Nude Diamond Mirror Polished Line-Contact Stylus" (not sure exactly what that means in real terms) but I think it has a profile that reduces the actual contact area within the walls of the groove, and therefore picks up less of the deformations up at the top of the groove caused by surface scuffs.

That sounds like an elliptical. The only problem is that elliptical stylii are rougher on records than spherical ones, particularly if they are a little out of alignment. Elliptical is best for transcription work, spherical for everyday use.

See ya
Steve

TimJo -
I got all of the Dylan Bootlegs thru Music Direct - they have a good return policy, and most importantly, they will take the LPs out of the sleeves so they don't tear in shipment. I returned one of the sets because the box was damaged and now when I buy from them they flag almost every album I order to make sure it is in new/mint condition. Now that is customer service!
The Dylan 200g sets are true works of art. I highly recommend all of them (but if you have to start with one, I would go with the Rolling Thunder Review, #5). I honestly had no problem dropping that much coin on these sets after I received RTR. Sound, packaging, I was not disappointed. Hope you enjoy them...
some other Classic 200's I have been enjoying -
Young's Greendale 200g box, Prairie Wind, Greatest Hits
Holly Cole's Temptation (Waits interpretations)
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Sundazed also did a great job with Blonde on Blonde (Mono, 180g) - I really really like Sundazed. Never been disappointed, never had a bad pressing.