Alessandro MS1000 and MS Ultimate - DIY & modding [56K warning]

nickchen said:

No wonder that you were undwhelmed by the Ulti when being a Stax creature. Stax is all about resolution and fidelity, whereas the whole Gradessandro bunch only does work-to-rule in that respect. In fact, I wouldn't say the Ulti's resolution is noticeably superior to HD600 or so. You get a MS1K or an Ulti when you want fun and tiptoeing. The Ulti is tiptoeing with the best SQ available IMO. But when SQ is your only concern, conventional HPs will serve you better.
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Haven't been here for MONTHS. My Ultis still alive...just so...I had a cable damage close to the systems, so I had to grub them out of the wood without destroying anything. It worked, but they look a bit rugged since then ^^

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I thiink you mean toe-tapping. However, while I didn't get that with the MS-Pro, I put the distancers and G-cushions on my MS-1 and I liked that a lot more. So, I'll keep the MS-1000 and sell the MS-Pro.

Also, I'm not a 'Stax Creature' (that sounds a bit like Godzilla with square headphones on), as I do most of my listening on the ZennJazzGrado
The resolution of the PX 100 II can't hold a candle to the Stax, but it's light and easily protable and can be pwered by my iPad without an external headphone amp.

While starting to source parts for a MS1000 project I was reviewing materials. I've seen distancers and also complete conversions made out of everything from plastic to wood to aluminum.
 
For the MS1000 if the general goal is to  largely match Gradio GS and PS 1000 then it seems wood would be the primary choice of inner material (PS1000i) if not the whole thing (GS1000i) which are essentially woodies. The PS1000 are outer sleeved with "dense non resonant material" - which possibly suggests some amount of wood sleeving isn't enough. But still no plastic or aluminum.
 
To me that suggests skipping plastic an aluminum (with perhaps felt) and going straight woody.
 
But when I review Allesandro's series, they go from MS1 (Plastic) to MS2 (dense non-resonant) to MS Pro (woodies). While I understand the commercial need to differentiate - If the drivers are the same (or essentially so better or better matched given price) then it begs the question
 
"If MS1 makes MS1000 in the same league as Grado 1000's then why isn't MS2 most of the way there if not the MS-Pro"
 
Or perhaps from another angle
 
"Does the MS1000 require brighter drivers and more resonant (or reflective - plastic, AL) inner sleeve to make it work".
 
Certainly the bowl pads are part of the solution- but the materials and dimensions are they key.
 
For looks - and "matching GS1000" I was going to straight to full woodies - but the Allesandro progression suggests that Woodied MS1's would be more like an MS Pro and not the MS1000 intended by the original thread.
 
Is it that the Allesandro MS2 and Pro have too long a tube, likely intentionally?
 
The OP's magic-combo was wood distancer (=== wood inner sleeve inside section) and plastic outer section (=== plastic inner sleeve outside section) and Grado Bowl pads.
 
I can make any combination of wood/metal in my shop - but I'd like to start with the current reference build before considering full woodies or carbon fiber or aluminum or anything else.
 
Is the OP still the "reference combination" for this project?
 
Why is this different than than the Allesandro progression of materials?

I have the MS-1 with wooden 11mm distancers with felt on the inside and Grado G-cushions and that sound great. I had the same combi on the MS-Pro and I was unimpressed by the improvement over the stock MS-Pro.
 
Or maybe it's just that it's more impressive for the MS-1 to leap several levels over the competition with this simple mod, while the modded MS-Pro is still no match for the GS-1000.
 
At least, to my ears.
 
Nickchen apparently things differently, since he prefers the ultimate over the 1000.

As I made no examinations on this (and don't intend to), I'd prefer to skip this materials discussion...

What are the options for getting distancers? Are they only available from people who make them themselves and is there anyway to get them in Canada?

noname1 said:

What are the options for getting distancers? Are they only available from people who make them themselves and is there anyway to get them in Canada?

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AFAIK, distancers are made by a few members: Nickchen in Germany and Apatn in the Netherlands made them. I got mine from Apatn. The exact measurments are in the beginning of the thread, I believe you could take those measurements to a woodworkshop and have them made, maybe even in a 3D printer.

I don't think there are any 'traders' making them, so your options are indeed limited.

Do you think wooden distancer on the MS1 would ruin the sound? It's much easier to make a wooden distancer than to find a plastic one here. I'm doing searches on ebay though.
 
 

020assassin said:

AFAIK, distancers are made by a few members: Nickchen in Germany and Apatn in the Netherlands made them. I got mine from Apatn. The exact measurments are in the beginning of the thread, I believe you could take those measurements to a woodworkshop and have them made, maybe even in a 3D printer.

I don't think there are any 'traders' making them, so your options are indeed limited.

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williamleonhart said:

  Do you think wooden distancer on the MS1 would ruin the sound? It's much easier to make a wooden distancer than to find a plastic one here. I'm doing searches on ebay though.
 
 

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The distancers on my MS-1 are wooden, with felt inside, and attached with blu-tack.

Great! It will cost me only $5 for a wooden distancer. The hard part now is to find a MS1 (again)...

Got these from Bunnings (for the Australians) worked out pretty well. 
 
Hacksaw off the thread 

 
Cut to size, drill and sand

 
I still need to get some felt, but all in all, I am pretty impressed.  

ippon said:

  Got these from Bunnings (for the Australians) worked out pretty well. 
 
Hacksaw off the thread 

 
Cut to size, drill and sand

 
I still need to get some felt, but all in all, I am pretty impressed.  

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Hi Ippon,
 
Would you mind posting the link to the bunnings webpage for those parts or the catalogue number?
 
Also, did you source the Grdo pads locally?
 
Cheers!

Has anyone tried ebay sourced copy G cush pads?
 
For example, like these:
 
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/G-Cush-Foam-Cushion-For-PS500-PS1000-Alessandro-MS-1-2-I-MS-Pro-Headphones-/261485296073
 
Not original Grado but less than half the price. I’ll happily pay more if it makes a difference, but if not…

I just received my MS-1 2009's and tomorrow the bowls arrive (found in-stock Grado Amazon store but not online Grado store - get them if you need them). I'm going to do the mod this weekend.
 
I've otherwise been interested in the beautiful woodies and a friend going to India soon may bring back some wood if not some ersatz custom product. The new aluminum housings look good too (though not like wooddies). I just spotted a long rod of 2.5" aluminum near the lathe in the shop. So  I was thinking I should just turn and mill out some new housings.
 
I'm curious as to usual and best practices when installing drivers in woodies and metal and other new housings.
 
For these new DIY/small shop housings - are they just turned as a cylinder with just perhaps a screen stop in the outer end? And the drivers then positioned and glued in? any stops milled or glued in? Any provisions for service (or most drivers glued in?)
 
[Edit: Found a few postings with marked up pictures of some woodie housings ... somewhere in the 163 pages of this thread. Looks like and internal stop for sliding the driver in and optionally another for a outer screen]

Today the bowls arrived (Sunday Amazon USPS delivery (!)). I picked up some black ABS 1 1/2" threaded street fittings. The same as in an earlier post but black ABS. Just look in the black ABS drain pipe section and perhaps check a store or two.
 
The ABS fittings chucked up nicely enough in the metal lathe and with a moderate speed I was able to turn them with metal cutting carbide tools. Though I'm sure the ABS and it's fillers weren't kind to the tools. I bored the insides out to 40mm as they measured at 38mm. I used a parting tool to remove text from the bowl ring , cut off the threaded portion, and thin the threaded portion to 2.5mm or so. I marked 14/13/12 mm marks with a scribe and sanded to the 13mm mark with a 12" disc sander in small rotating pushes.
 
I understand now about not damaging the outer housing when heating it to separate the sections. Mine has a minor squish but it's not noticable unless one looks from the bowls towards the outside. I'm careful and that was tough. Even doing the 2nd one after noticing what I'd done to the first. Well not noticeable really fortunately.
 
I used 4x holes in the back of the driver felt. I used 2 x 2mm holes in the distancer. I'll note that 4 x 1mm holes is a fair bit smaller vent area  than 2 x 2mm holes. I couldn't then make clean holes through the felt - not sure how much of an affect that is. I'll also note do not use a powered drill as it'll catch and spin out your strip of self stick felt and you'll start over. Start with a tiny drill rubbing back and forth just a tab. Or a tiny awl. Once you work up to your hole size with drills - small back and forth - you can twist clockwise while pulling out and it'll help cut the felt at tad.
 
I have more pictures - but WinDoz moved them while I was passing across some window. But for now - here's a new set in Durham, North Carolina.
 
I still need to trim the headband swivel ring as it's keeping them from rotating enough to sit on my head properly. But I can't take them off to do the trimming - they sound so great! Thanks to everybody who's contributed to this!
 
Edit. Found the Lathe pics. And the pics of the two bottles of "Assembly Lube". Tips for ABS - one pass and let it cool a tad; also slower feeds 'n speeds.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

johnny lolo said:

  Has anyone tried ebay sourced copy G cush pads?
 
For example, like these:
 
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/G-Cush-Foam-Cushion-For-PS500-PS1000-Alessandro-MS-1-2-I-MS-Pro-Headphones-/261485296073
 
Not original Grado but less than half the price. I’ll happily pay more if it makes a difference, but if not…

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Grado Pads: Somewhere in the earlier 163 or so pages this comes up and the response is you really need the Grado pads. Earlier (previous post I think) I mention Grado-Amazon had them where Grado-Internet didn't.
 
Driver hole mod: As I and others found - it's difficult to soften the glue without softening the outer housing enough to squish and damage it. I'd thought of punches - but without seeing the drivers up close was worried I'd puncture a driver.
 
This post shows using a punch and with a standoff http://www.head-fi.org/t/323271/alessandro-ms1000-and-ms-ultimate-diy-modding-56k-warning/2055#post_7357781 . You'll have to open the picture links as the pictures aren't embedded. Pseudohippy notes, as I found, the felt covers a plastic ring with maybe 6 (or so) holes spaced out on it. So you just need to feel around for the holes. Start near each terminal strip end; then go for 5 and 7 o'clock. When you find one it makes a great boundry for punch wriggling to make just the right size hole. Note he used a stack of nuts and hardware to ensure he didn't accidentally go too deep. I'd recommend this process to avoid damaging your housing. And one less tool - heatgun - required.
 
I used a hot glue gun to glue my distancer on.
 
Lastly, while I did show "assembly lube" - just remember "Don't Drink and Drill!"