I still like the sound of direct connection to that of amped. I was listening to a SACD Hybrid Disk of the "Rite of Spring" (the CD layer, Telarc) on my CD Player - through direct connection it was very loud but the most amazing thing I have ever heard. I VASTLY perferred it too my SuperMini V2.


Through Semi-Direct Connection (5 dollar Radio Shack Volume Control) I still perfered it to the supermini.


My main dilemma is CD Player shopping (I posted this thread here because I thought you guys would be more interested than the source guys.) Idealing, I want a SACD player with built-in variable voltage control - but there is no such player.


However, I don't know the output voltage of my current (no pun intented) CD player. It can give PLENTY of power to my HD600s- making me wonder if it has an unusually HIGH voltage output (greater than the standard 2 volt) .


This is something I should know before I buy an SACD player and use direct connection with it. I might be suprised to find that ir cannot power my Senns.




Any suggestions?

Get a good amp

Seriously, hook it up to a great amp, and you'll be turned from your foolish ways

I do not find my ways foolish.


Amps color the sound - all of the amps I have tryed make the music too smooth and fake.



I am sorry - but live music is NOT smooth.

My mother works for a very good symphony (the La Times says they are better than the LA Phil sometimes) . Thus, I get to hear lots of live concert music for free. I also get to go to rehearsals. I have heard everything from Beethovens "5th" to R. Strauss's "Life of a Hero" to Dvoraks "New World Symphony" - all live.


Anyway - on many occusasion during live concerts I have closed my eyes. I then feel me ears vibrate and remark to myself that if audiophiles ever listened to music this performance and not known it was live they would consider it harsh.


The bottom line - live music is harsh, brutal, and un-relentingly taxing on your ears. It is not smooth, wide, or relaxing.





Anyway - could someone please answer my original question please. Thank you

what amps have you tried out?

also what other headphones have you used?


maybe you have not tried the really good amps and headphones.
all i see in your profile is a supermini and fix up - i dont think those amps are really made to sizzle your cans.

if you want harsh - just get the V6 and use an EQ to boost the trebel more.

I am too old, and too tired to respond to this thread.

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I wouldn't because that would be artificial harshness.




Anyway - technically speaking anything coming out of direct connection is going to be more true to the disk than an amp. Why? Because anything in the signal path distorts the signal more.



Anyway - can someone answer my original question about CD voltages?

Czilla...

...congrats on your constancy! You're even more puristic than I – and justly so. You're completely right about the truer sound from the direct path. It's just that sometimes I'm getting weak and prefer the more colorful sound from my EMP or HA-2, or I want to listen to SACDs: in this case the amp is virtually indispensable because of the DVD 963 SA's 200 ohm output impedance. Maybe in the nearer future I'll have an SACD or universal player with a low output impedance such as my Bel Canto DAC2...

As to your question about the output voltage of your CD player: I didn't find any information in the net; don't you have a user manual? Anyway, I seriously suppose that it's the usual 2 volt. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to listen to music without any attenuation or hearing damage resp.... with the highly-efficient HD 600.

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Please explain – seriously – what an additional amplification stage can do better than a piece of wire! (Save that it's so «normal» that everybody knows it's the only right way...)

Czilla,

There is a CD player with variable output control and I mentioned that source before in one of our conversations - it's a Red Book Sony XA7ES , you can get for around $950-1050.

The variable output of my former X-777ESD was clearly inferior to the fixed output. I have no idea how the XA7ES's variable output is. Anyway, Czilla is looking for an SACD player. BTW: What about the new Sony SACD players?

Ok, I see you have three sources- two portable CDP's and a Technics player, you have to be talking about the Techincs right? If there is an output on the portables it should be variable. So, what source is it you have you are talking about? Try a search for it on the net and see if you can find the specs to see what the voltage is.

I think you are right, I'm not seeing a variable output feature on the current Sony SACD players. However, if you want to remain a purist through and through you should know that any CD player with a variable audio output is basically a "digital volume." The way digital volumes achieve attenuation is they throw out bits of information as you turn the volume down and the ultimate result is degradation of the signal. That's certainly isn't pure, although this can be more subtle in higher end CD players that have been tweaked.

Unless Sony is not including variable audio output in their feature specs on their web site I'm not seeing this feature in their SACD players. As to the voltage output of your CDP do a search and see if you can find the specs. My guess is it is around 2V, perhaps close to 3V if it really is that much louder. Anything beyond that and they're way off industry standards.

Jazz,

As far as I know none of models from the current line-up have variable output, which might not be a good thing to some.

Sean H,

My exprience with Sony XA7ES's variable was very satisfiing. I personally think that having that option and ommiting a pre-amp would be a good choice for non-purists. As for the digital level control - I'm not sure if the trade-offs are that obvious. I think, you'd really have to go into details and look closely at how it is implemented in the digital to analog stage of sound reproduction.

I think you are right, in the better players the digital volume isn't as detrimental as they must be optimized or tweaked. I own an LFD Mistral CDP ($2K) and I must say I hear little if any degradation of the sonics when using it's digital volume. Now, I have owned the Ah! Tjoeb and with it's digital volume I definitely heard degradation to some degree. Your Sony, a well regarded player, must have a somewhat tweaked or optimized digital volume.

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I listen at .1V RMS to my HD600. I can't believe you can stand listening at 2V RMS. The most I can handle is about 1V before I feel like I'm going to damage my ears. The HD600, contrary to what you may have heard, does not require much power to reach safe volume levels, nor even to reach unsafe volume levels. With my portable source (.6V RMS) I use amps with a gain of 3 and never come close to the end of the volume dial, so I can guarantee you I'd never need more than 2V with the HD600. Hope this helps...

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This may have been covered in a previous thread, but why not have a player modded to either add a variable voltage control or improve the existing one? If feasible, it might be expensive but perhaps not as expensive as buying a new CDP - which, in the end, might not be exactly what you wanted anyway.

BTW, I've never tried listening through a direct connection. This is off-topic, but can you describe how you connected your Senns. directly to the CDP? I'd like to try it.