Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › MHDT Havana DAC
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

MHDT Havana DAC - Page 140

post #2086 of 2494
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchee411 View Post

 

 

Interesting, I didn't even know about this cap, but I just ordered one.  When I said Jupiter I was thinking of the HT beeswax caps.  I think I'm going to draw the line at spending $100-$130 to put a CuTF here, but let us know how it works out for you!  If it's a big improvement I may push that line back a little.

I think the Havana already sounds like a several $k DAC with the mods I've put in so I wouldn't balk too much at spending a couple hundred more.  At least that is what I keep telling myself!

 

Where are the limits of it's topology? Inclined to believe that the strongest possible impact of CuTF is on the output section, becouse it is critical for Havana. But you never know...I am very, VERY curious!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mako44 View Post

So what about my dac now : starts to be really pleasant and it looks like I finally found the right balance/sound I was looking for :). However it's still too closed for me and I feel a lack of air & details. I'll receive vcap cutf soon for output and i still have to put WBT nextgen connectors so may be it will help. Didn't put rcore neither because don't know how to do but seems good for that according to what I read. To be continued so...

 

Get ready for the great adventure with CuTF!! After hundreds of hours of burning-in, you will really feel what you missed before. CuTF place there (to the output) gives life to all instruments&voices and transform the audition into something wonderful. It's incredible how much changes the sound stamp across all frequencies (I would say, decisively in the mid and low frequencies).

I love these capacitors! smile.gif

post #2087 of 2494

Very nice to read, I'll receive them next week, was happy with Mundorf S/G/O but they seem still better according to all your comments. Looks like we'll all finish with dacs full of Vcap cutf (output, input, c12...) bigsmile_face.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchee411 View Post

 

 

Interesting, I didn't even know about this cap, but I just ordered one.

 

Are you speaking about Jupiter HT ? Because as you mentionned before I'm not sure it's what you're looking for as they definitely don't go towards definition/incisiveness & transparency. They're more relaxing, warm, soft. But very nice in that way. However I hope I will be abble to extend the extremes with next upgrades because it's too short for the moment especially on highs.

 

It's just a thought but I don't know if Havana is the best raw material to go towards analytical sound like antelope dacs for example. I wonder if  Havana is not above all especially good to make relaxing, full body, soft/warm configs. Still with some good definition, details but not as far as pro dacs (studio dacs). Everytime I tried something more precise and analytical (jw 2c51 ericsson, clarity cap mr) on havana I was not completely happy especially with highs. And the only really good (best ?) tube on havana, if you want a very high level of quality, looks like to be the bendix 6385 which is not especially very precise or opened (it is but not on the analytical way).

post #2088 of 2494
Quote:
Originally Posted by mako44 View Post

Are you speaking about Jupiter HT ? Because as you mentionned before I'm not sure it's what you're looking for as they definitely don't go towards definition/incisiveness & transparency. They're more relaxing, warm, soft. But very nice in that way. However I hope I will be abble to extend the extremes with next upgrades because it's too short for the moment especially on highs.

 

It's just a thought but I don't know if Havana is the best raw material to go towards analytical sound like antelope dacs for example. I wonder if  Havana is not above all especially good to make relaxing, full body, soft/warm configs. Still with some good definition, details but not as far as pro dacs (studio dacs). Everytime I tried something more precise and analytical (jw 2c51 ericsson, clarity cap mr) on havana I was not completely happy especially with highs. And the only really good (best ?) tube on havana, if you want a very high level of quality, looks like to be the bendix 6385 which is not especially very precise or opened (it is but not on the analytical way).

 

Nope, what Robert is using and what I was referring to is the Jupiter Vintage Tone cap, not the HT Beeswax.

 

http://jupitercondenser.com/vintage-tone-yellow-capacitors.html

 

You are correct that if you're looking for analytical, extremely resolving sound then Havana is not your DAC.  I have owned this DAC the longest of any piece of gear I have and keep coming back to it for its tone, texture, and musicality.  My taste is definitely on the warm side -- tube DAC, preamp, power amps with Tannoy dual concentric speakers.  That said, I do enjoy and appreciate a high degree of clarity, transparency, openness, detail, etc. and the Havana is relatively lacking in these parameters so I'm trying to tip the balance in that direction.

 

Last night I installed the WBT-0210 Ag Ms RCA connectors.  Going in somewhat skeptical I was surprised to find that transparency, image/soundstage precision, and fine details were improved significantly with a cooler, but not *bright* sound.  Detail and tonal accuracy of treble are notably better, percussion in particular, especially cymbals.  Interestingly the presentation was also pushed back and is more recessed rather than up front now... perhaps a little too much on vocals.  Overall it is a welcome change, though, as it better captures large scale music (especially orchestral) with the music hall ambiance.  Of course, lots of components yet to burn in.

 

Now I don't know which direction to head with the C12 cap.  I already have Jupiter Vintage Tone on the way and am thinking of Jupiter HT or Mudorf SIO.  Maybe even SGIO but if I'm going to spend that much I might just double down and get the CuTF.  I will sit on this until after the Auricaps and Technics chips are installed and everything burns in.

post #2089 of 2494
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchee411 View Post

Now I don't know which direction to head with the C12 cap.  I already have Jupiter Vintage Tone on the way and am thinking of Jupiter HT or Mudorf SIO.  Maybe even SGIO but if I'm going to spend that much I might just double down and get the CuTF.  I will sit on this until after the Auricaps and Technics chips are installed and everything burns in.

 

I'm also still looking for C12 replacement, the DAC strongly reacts to its change, the best synegry I obtain with Jupiter vintage vone but this is not my last move, this cap is very cheap, its worth testing, you can easily tame the DAC putting there some teflons like Russian FT3 for example (very nice experience), Mundorf SGIO gives technical sound, (I avoid that kind of presentation).

I wonder what would happen when CuTF was there :). I'm gonna find out.

 

Cheers, Robert

post #2090 of 2494
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchee411 View Post

Last night I installed the WBT-0210 Ag Ms RCA connectors.  Going in somewhat skeptical I was surprised to find that transparency, image/soundstage precision, and fine details were improved significantly with a cooler, but not *bright* sound.  Detail and tonal accuracy of treble are notably better, percussion in particular, especially cymbals.  Interestingly the presentation was also pushed back and is more recessed rather than up front now... perhaps a little too much on vocals.  Overall it is a welcome change, though, as it better captures large scale music (especially orchestral) with the music hall ambiance.  Of course, lots of components yet to burn in.

 

@kimchee411,

It was a shame as Havana not benefit from all this. WBT-0210 Ag Ms are probably the best. I was pleasantly surprised also, to see what sensitive reacts Havana to these conectors. It gives a superior layering, certainly. smile.gif

post #2091 of 2494
Quote:
Originally Posted by mako44 View Post
 Everytime I tried something more precise and analytical (jw 2c51 ericsson, clarity cap mr) on havana I was not completely happy especially with highs. And the only really good (best ?) tube on havana, if you want a very high level of quality, looks like to be the bendix 6385 which is not especially very precise or opened (it is but not on the analytical way).

 

You will definitely change your mind about Bendix when you hear 1964's production.  Perfect clearance and precision which you will not get with other tubes. - no way !

post #2092 of 2494
Quote:
Originally Posted by robeeert1 View Post

 

You will definitely change your mind about Bendix when you hear 1964's production.  Perfect clearance and precision which you will not get with other tubes. - no way !


A few days ago I took out the Bendix (from 1964') and I tried to see how it sounds Western Electric (JW)396A. Bendix was better when I bought it after about one half a year ago, and obvious now. The sound is more refined with Bendix..

post #2093 of 2494

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-6385-tube-/130781095796?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e73292774

 

Ask the seller if it is 1964 or 1968 tube, if so, take it, it seems to be a good final price. These are very rare..

 

Why is the year of production so important?

 

Two of my loaner Bendix 6385 (1964 and 1956) have been sent to my 10 friends (Havana's owners) or so all over the world last and this year just to compare them.

For your curiocity no-one pointed 1956 as better. :)

Some of them are members of this forum...

 

Tournée is over now.

 

1954,1956,1957,1959 were advertised as RTMA -  they all sound the same,

1964, 1968 - sound the same (but quite different than the ones from fifties)


Edited by robeeert1 - 10/13/12 at 3:35pm
post #2094 of 2494
Quote:
Originally Posted by loserica View Post


A few days ago I took out the Bendix (from 1964') and I tried to see how it sounds Western Electric (JW)396A. Bendix was better when I bought it after about one half a year ago, and obvious now. The sound is more refined with Bendix..

 

Well you even can't compare them together, JW 396a (at least the one I own)  is a good tube but just sounds like a first draft of bendix 6385. I never loved it that much in fact i find it too "tuby" : bold, lack of air, closed. I also own a 6386 ge 5 star but even if it's a bit different it's not better than jw 396a (too closed too). Bendix 6385 is a first class tube much more clean and airy according to me

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robeeert1 View Post

 

You will definitely change your mind about Bendix when you hear 1964's production.  Perfect clearance and precision which you will not get with other tubes. - no way !

 

I know I agree with you I love Bendix 6385, it's very nice to hear, and can't go back to another one now. I just meant that some other tubes are more analytical & opened than Bendix for example Ericsson 2c51 which is extremely opened and transparent. I liked it more than JW 396a or 6386 because of its openess (stock havana needs to be more opened) but I listened to it again yesterday and it sounds too harsh and "stiffness" after changes we made on the dac. Bendix 6385 is undoubtly more balanced and pleasant (at least on havana).

post #2095 of 2494

Makko, I owned several Ericssons 2C51 and even I owned very rare ones with gold pins, these are very good especially gold pin version. In my opinion these tubes are not more transparent than bendix 6385 1964, 

I bet you have Bendix 6385 from fifties, it is rather on warm side, for me this tube is muddy.

Do know what are the date codes of your Bendix 6385?

The most important thing in our hobby is satisfaction with the sound quality and music.

I'm not going to argue which tube is more transparent and opened any more.

 

You will see plenty of opening space when you install CuFT. biggrin.gif

 

Cheers Robert

post #2096 of 2494

.


Edited by mako44 - 10/15/12 at 7:11am
post #2097 of 2494

I don't remember the date of my 6385 but I love it and prefer it to jw 2c51 anyway. For I changed my amp and speakers at the beginning of the year something kept on disturbing me when listening to havana and I couldn't find the right balance, but I think I did now thanks to Bendix 6385 and by switching Clarity MR with Jupiter HT on C12. I love the sound of my hifi system now.

 

I had the opportunity to listen to the atoll dac 100 (500 euros) yesterdays, well... the kind of situation where you can hear how huge the difference is between entry level dacs and tweaked havana :).

 

And  where you confirm how much havana sounds natural. On Atoll dac I had the impression to listen to a synthetizer with presets erk... I must say it was also with speakers and an amp (davis acoustics matisse hd and atoll in 100se) less good as mines but anyway i've been surprised on how it sounded like a computer... And no air, horrible basses, bad precision. Smooth feeling, spatialization, agreable trebles and more or less correct medium were the good points. Stock havana works much better from memories.

post #2098 of 2494
Quote:
Originally Posted by mako44 View Post

 I had the impression to listen to a synthetizer with presets erk...

 

That is *EXACTLY* my thoughts on so many DACs that I've heard. Good description..

post #2099 of 2494
Quote:
Originally Posted by robeeert1 View Post

 As I told you, they need burning in like fish need water :)

I adore the quality with CuTF.

 

Hi,

Because we are interested in all about this topic, I found here very interesting remarks:

(I checked on the write up to 300>>400 hours of CuTF burning-in and I found sound characteristics described here).

 

quote:

 

"<<Teflon capacitors take a solid 400 hours to reach about 90% of their true potential and their true colors open up at the 600 hour mark (25 days). It has also been established that they will even continue to change, ever so slightly, up to 1200 hours (50 days). You may not notice these changes and I only mention it to give you an indication of the characteristics of Teflon. During the break-in cycle of these capacitors, they will go through different stages.

 

During the initial 150 hours (6 days) , you will notice these capacitors will do a two steps forward, one step back routine. What you will notice is that one day you system may sound fine while the next day (after it's one step back) it will not sound as good as it did even the day before. This is the stage where the capacitors can actually sound broken. Don't be alarmed, it's simply the nature of Teflon. What you will notice is a 2 dimensional sound. The bass may be uncontrolled, the midrange a bit foggy and a lack of air and extension. Absolutely no coherency.

After 150 hours (6 days), the capacitors start to stabilize. From this point onward, they will be more consistent in their progress. They will still only be at about 50% of their sonic potential but the one step back issue is gone. This stage will last to about the 200-250 hour mark (8-10 days). This is where they start to become more 'listenable'  but you are still only half way there.  The bass should start getting better here and the highs a bit more extended but the midrange is not quite there yet.

Now that you have gone through the ugly stages and have reached the 300 hour mark (12 days), things are starting to come into focus. Teflon capacitors start coming into their own between 300 and 400 hours (12-16 days). You may still noticed a few quirks but they should be minimal at this point. You have more control down below, the midrange is becoming more real and the upper end is starting to extend further. This is when I usually receive the phone calls telling me I was absolutely correct about what to expect.

One you reach the 400 hour mark (16 days), you are starting to reach sonic nirvana and it will not be long before you are experiencing the truest potential of Teflon capacitors. It's been a long road but you will probably find the journey well worth it. This is the point where the midrange magic is apparent. You should notice a sense of texture and realism that is uncanny. The bass is quick and firm and the highs extended with a great sense of air. You will now start realizing a wide, spacious presentation as well. At this point, I don't receive any phone calls at all as you will be too involved in your music to want to waste time talking to me.

After 400 hours........... Heaven.>>"

post #2100 of 2494

This vcap cutf is a real bottle of wine bigsmile_face.gif. I have a question : sound quality fluctuates depending on the time spent but is it better than, let's say, Mundorf S/G from the beginning and even during worst stages or can it become worse sometimes ?

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dedicated Source Components
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › MHDT Havana DAC