way back in the earliest days of the first term of the Clinton administration our president turned over the task of overhauling our medical system to his wife,then not elected to any office by the public,Hillary.
A featured componant of this reform package was a "medical card" that would identify the user , include a medical history,and any useful information a doctor might need to treat someone.
There were two problems with this "innocent" card.
1-it would in reality provide way more information than is anyones business unless volunteered by the card holder
2-there would be up to a $1,000 fine and one year in jail to anyone caught not carrying this card at any time.
So in reality it was a smokescreen for sticking the citizens of this country with what amounted to a national identification card.
The bill failed , at it should have,mainly on that point.
Could you imagine going to jail for not carrying a card ? How about police officers walking up to you and using that as an excuse as "probable cause" for any real or imagined wrongdoing,including not liking the way you look.
We do not live in the Former Soviet Union or Hitlers Germany were "show me your papers' was a normal occurence.

Well now it seems there is a movement in congress to bring this to the fore again,to revisit a VERY BAD idea.The excuse this time is tracking terrorists by identifying REAL citizens.

HOGWASH !!!!!!

First of all,this will never fly in this country.You do not punish the folks who have done no wrong with the excuse that it is for thier own good.
Second,we all know that those who are determined to will always be able to forge papers,to skirt laws,again meaning those who broke no law get FCKD.

No way I want to see in my lifetime a time when "show me your papers" becomes the norm.Where your life becomes even more of an open book than it is becoming now.These quite ,insidious assaults on our inherent freedoms should not go unchallenged (even though sadly they are,most folks just do not pay attention)
I will look into this a bit more but just let me say-if true,all who would not be controlled should write letters to state reps,congressman,senators,even George Bush.
Your voice means a lot,really does.

agreed.

IMO some rights are more important than (perceived) safety.

In the Reich v3.0, there was also a "homeland security" cabinet. They were called the "Geheime Staatspolezei". My Deutshsprechen ist nicht zehr gut, so I won't give you the translation. You may have heard of their common name - the Gestapo.

In the future, they won't ask to see your papers, they'll just scan the bar code on your forehead instead.

Speaking of "It's for your own good", how about the GPS transponders going into cell phones - so the "authorities" can find you when you dial 911?

No, I'm not into conspiracy theories, but they are sure fun to start! For example...

Ever see those food store discount cards? Whenever the cashier would ask if I had one, I would act terrified and expain that the cards were being used by the government so they could keep track of my deplorable dietary habits and deny me health care in the future. By the end of my theory, they usually figured out that I was being very sarcastic - and we would both have a good laugh. Until one cashier told me how the DEA was tipped off on an individual who had a pattern of buying lots of little zip-lock bags. While that sounds like an urban myth to me,....

funny you bring up the cell phone 911 issue.I have discussed it in passing before,and no I am not one of those "it's a conspiracy " guys but again,a total smokescreen that the "sheep" never seem to notice coming.What it can do ,no ****,is if you are being monitored can pinpoint where you are and who you are talking to,plus where they are.
So if you are honest what is the problem ?
Simple invasion of privacy and against the constitution if worded in the law different.By passing it with the present language it "in theory' is OK legally.
Even small erosions are after all erosions.Add them all together over time (and that is why not done all at once) and it looks damn ugly.

Oh, it gets even better. You could get "pinged" whenever they wanted to find you - or account for your whereabouts. Or track, say, the speed you are going. A LOT of parents woud love that feature....

Instead, it'll get marketed as some sort of personal "OnStar" system, or some such thing.

H-P is coming out with some sort of PDA/cellphone/mp3 player etc.. So, if you are listening to bootleg tunes, do you suppose it'll dial 911, report your position, and testify against you?

On the other hand, some nut case cruises around here in a car with large stickers on it urging the government to shut down its mind control satellites! No, it ain't me.

Politics... one of the things you don't talk about in polite company. Please, can't this board just be for headphones and related?

I understand your sentiments all too well. But since you asked...

I don't think the above is about politics, but basic human rights. Since at least 9 out of 10 registered Head-Fi'ers are human, I'd say it is suitable discussion matter.

After 2 years of lurking/posting/flaming/whatever of 'Wize & 'Fi, I'm getting very bored with reading the same old tired posts about (fill in the headphone/amp/cable/format/etc.).

I would find it very sad if there were individuals here who lived for headphones - and absolutely nothing else. While very few of us actually KNOW anybody here, it is fun to find out either what interests or views we have in common, or should the opposite be the case, sooner or later we find SOMETHING we agree on. I find that BOTH instances lend some credibility to some of the reviewers here. If they are too cowardly to take a stand on something, then how can anything they say or do be taken seriously? Anybody who thinks that their opinions are beyond their fellow man is not to be taken seriously, either.

And if the subject matter doesn't interest you, don't read it!! Even better, don't post!! Nothing disappears faster than a thread with NO replies.

Personally, I find MP3 threads/posts completely irrelevant to me. Clearly, there are plenty of those who DO find that subject relevant.

Even those with whom I've vehemently (they might have a less polite term) argued with I've found SOME common ground. It is becoming increasingly clear to me that, while we may all be on very different paths, our destinations are rather similar.

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State Police Constabulary, if I remember my German.

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Could it be that you are reading in the wrong place?

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This is an excellent suggestion. If you use a thread title less ambiguous than "here they go again" it will even more possible. I won't post on this thread again.

Common ground? Hmm. As if the Earth beneath our feet isn't enough...

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A very similar quote I do recall concerning religions........

Jeez , guess I stirred up the mix again

And by no means an accident.Some would rather not think of certain things,makes those little hairs on the back of your neck kind of stand up ,creates a certain discomfort.
These things are better left alone for some.For others it leads to passionate conversation,and that in the end tells a bit about a person that "I like headphone X" could never convey.And since a good portion of us will never meet in life,this type of converstaion fleshes out a faceless person into an actual thinking person ,no matter if we agree or not.

BTW-"I like Grado"

OH,by the way
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My take is,this is the area where you post on things you would have a conversation with somebody that has NOTHING to do with headphones.Just cruise most of the topics in this forum area and you will see that pretty much anything anyone wants to discuss is brought up.If not found interesting then it passes on its own.

And what the FCK is "polite company" anyway ?That the same as a bunch folks that just smile and never say anything that would cause a stir until it is behind someones back ?
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That is very close to pissing me off,you have issues with me man ?If so then state them .Go for it dude,i am up to it.First of all,you know my style of "titles" by now,you are not a complete newbie so you peeked in out of curiosity.But then went and posted a response.Why not just hit "back" and have done with it ?


and sorry rohorn,got you pounced on again man.Though I know that don't cause too much discomfort

T'Sorry: Uh, right, but unfortunately, wherever you stand, somebody will claim it as theirs - or some "endangered species" ground....

Rick: anonymity is a double edged sword. While it sometimes brings out the worst in people, it also tells me that nobody knows anybody here well enough to hate them, either. It took a heated PM exchange with one of the more rugged individualists here for me to learn that. I hope he's laughing about it all by now. We weren't laughing at it all back then.

But the best part is that some feel that we should abide by the polite peoples' protocol.

Which means that the impolite are exempt!!!

Post on with zest and enthusiasm!!

There was an article I read a row or two from today, in university weekly paper. About Canadian bill being passed right now through parliament/senate, which would give police right to arrest and detain people without warrant (if suspected of being terrorists), routinely spy on communications, forbid participation in organisations qualified as "terrorist supporting" etc. Well, the author had a problem with the definition of terrorism and organisations supporting it, that the government is preparing. It will be now quite easy to do any of the following:

You want to protest against APEC? You're a terorrist. You want to organize labour union, go on strike etc? You're a terrorist. You send money to your family in Lebanon, where your brother is in local militia (or not - the fact you've sent money to anyone in Lebanon means - you've guessed it - you're a terrorist). Or you voice your disagreement with foreign policy when, say, NATO attacks Libya in a few months - you must be a terrorist.

Yes, that might not happen. The thing is, usually at least there's two levels of system needed - police plus judiciary. So if a cop was smoking crack when deciding to charge someone with a crime, there's at least a judge to reason with him. With this bill, police alone makes a decision.

In the end of the article the author claims that the terrorists already won, and quotes Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give away their cherished liberties to gain a little personal security deserve neither liberty nor security." (I didn't get this quote completely correct)

However, once political discussions start on a forum, things can easily get out of control. I have seen forums being destroyed by this. And politics can and WILL incite hate or at least disgust. It can break the best of friendships, marriages, even close blood relatives. As someone coming from a country destroyed by politics I can atest to all of this. At some point you will just want to shut it out at least for a while. Having a mind-occupying hobby is a great way to do this. That's where the forum comes in.

Now, with the forums there are two conflicting issues that I see - you want to discuss the hobby, after all there's plenty of opportunity to talk politics just about anywhere and very little to talk about whatever the forum is about - that's the purpose of specialized forums. So you hardly need to use forum to express your off-topic opinions. But it is not that simple, and that brings the other issue - after so many months or years, you start considering (at least some) people on the forum as your friends and start talking about everyday things. At some point you want to talk to them about issues you normally discuss only with close friends, ones that you know. It's up to the forum's owner(s)/moderator(s) to decide how to control this - or not. You can censor off-topic, or let it be and intervene only if it becomes too hot and then lock the thread or even expell people (that's what I believe Chu Moy did, luckily it happens very rarely).