Denon PMA-2000IVR Integrated Amp
Feb 7, 2008 at 6:03 AM Post #16 of 32
Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I think you made a mistake; this amp measures no better than the $150 penny...you have just wasted alot of money.


ahh i see its all one big troll
 
Feb 7, 2008 at 6:05 AM Post #17 of 32
Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Denon PMA-2000IVR
160W @4ohm => THD is 0.7% !!
80W @8ohm => THD is 0.07%

How is this better than 0.09% @ 6ohm?

How can Denon sound better than Panasonic SA-XR55s if it measures worse?? If you can't measure it you can't hear it !!! that's a fact! And if it measures worse, it must sounds worse.

at least OP should stick with his believes on all electronics including amplifiers.



maybe the OP could do a blind test if you sent him an XR55... if he cant tell the difference im pretty sure he would return the denon.
 
Feb 7, 2008 at 6:15 AM Post #18 of 32
Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Denon PMA-2000IVR
160W @4ohm => THD is 0.7% !!
80W @8ohm => THD is 0.07%

How is this better than 0.09% @ 6ohm?

How can Denon sound better than Panasonic SA-XR55s if it measures worse?? If you can't measure it you can't hear it !!! that's a fact! And if it measures worse, it must sounds worse.



C'mon, are you serious?
redface.gif


The Panasonic isn't even 4-ohm stable. Good luck driving anything at 4 ohms with one, regardless of THD. Besides, the Panasonic's analog input section measures so poorly it's not even close to being able to reproduce a regular CD's dynamic range (85 dB SNR vs. 96 dB).

Edit: If you look closely, you'll note that the 4-ohm THD spec for the Denon is rated in DIN, not RMS. "Continuous power output" = RMS, which is why Panasonic's two measurements are the same in that section. I have a feeling if Denon bothered measuring that way, they would have 0.07% in both places.

Panasonic's DIN Power is listed in the lower-right hand corner of the specs page. 1% THD at 6 ohms.
biggrin.gif
 
Feb 7, 2008 at 6:27 AM Post #19 of 32
Quote:

Originally Posted by gotchaforce /img/forum/go_quote.gif
maybe the OP could do a blind test if you sent him an XR55... if he cant tell the difference im pretty sure he would return the denon.


I think BB has 30-day money back on those or its equivalents; but regardless, even if OP claims to hear a difference, its merely placebo as we all know, since the Panny measures better or measures close enough to the Denon. And don't forget the 103dB digital inputs
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I think OP will be much happier with the Panny!! what's the point paying 5X for equivalent measured performance?
 
Feb 7, 2008 at 6:34 AM Post #20 of 32
Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I think OP will be much happier with the Panny!! what's the point paying 5X for equivalent measured performance?


Exactly, and what's the point in paying 24X the cost of the Panasonic? Sell your Ayre AX-7e and move to budget-fi.
wink.gif
 
Feb 7, 2008 at 6:37 AM Post #21 of 32
I personally think it was a big mistake buying the amp as well. Except that I will offer to dump the amp for you....heck, I will pay you $150.00 to send it to me and I can get rid of it for you
biggrin.gif


Congrats on the amp!! One day, I will own one of these beasts
 
Feb 7, 2008 at 1:40 PM Post #22 of 32
Hey Chesebert, after my recent purchase, I am kind of out of disposable income for the next 3 months. If you send me your Panny, I will be more than happy to do a detailed comparison review for all you guys.
biggrin.gif


And oh Chesebert, if you don't mind, can you please also send me a couple of your Virtual Dynamics powercords and cables while you are at it? I would love to do a comparison between those ultra expensive cables and the generic ones that I am getting.
smily_headphones1.gif


And that Denon Premium Audio Integrated Amp looks REALLY impressive. But too bad it's not for sale here in the U.S.
frown.gif
 
Feb 7, 2008 at 4:42 PM Post #23 of 32
Quote:

Originally Posted by furball /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The list price is $1199. I purchased this integrated amp along with a pair of Polk LSi9 speakers. With a bit of haggling, I was able to negotiate the price down to $1100 for the integrated amp.

I took delivery of the integrated amp and the speakers yesterday, but my cables wont be here till next week. So they are still sitting in their boxes right now.
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I have the LSi 7's and they are quite possibly one of the best bookshelf speakers I have ever heard right up there with high end B&W's although I have never A/B listened to both, the highs are some of the best I have ever heard the ring tweeters are incredible.

I see people crying about the amp you picked, if you want bang for the buck go on ebay and find a reconditioned Sansui AU-717 or AU-919. I own the 717 and it is not only powerful with a low THD 85wpc w/ 0.025% THD@8 ohms. It sounds better than any two channel I have heard and I have heard some nice amps, I'd imagine there are some elite manufacturers that make something better but I bet the headphone stage isnt even close to as good or powerful. I use it for my Sextetts and they are driven with extreme ease. I also had my LSi7's matched up to it but it needs an overhaul now as its 30 years old and has never had any proffessional maintenance.

AU-717

The 919 is even more of a beast 100 wpc with a 0.007% THD @8 Ohms. Sorry I have to pimp Vintage Sansui every chance I get cause it really is amazing and can be had for a bargain compared to anything comparable you'd find new these days. The Audiokarma forums have a Sansui section.
AU-919
 
Feb 7, 2008 at 7:03 PM Post #24 of 32
The LSi7 has the exact same ring tweeter as the LSi9. I read that this ring tweeter is the same one used in Krell's top of the line speakers which cost $$$$$. Man this is sweet!
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As to the Sansui gear, they sure look impressive. But with used gear, I don't have too good of an experience with used gear. A couple of old integrated amps I have purchased over the years had one problem or another. So that's why this time I am buying new gears.

Who knows, maybe one day I will buy a pair of LSi15 floorstanders, and a real amp/preamp combo to power them, but I think even then I will still keep my current combo and use them as my bedroom set.
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Feb 7, 2008 at 7:17 PM Post #25 of 32
Thats why you buy the vintage gear that has been reconditioned, new caps old glue cleaned up ect... Trust me it's worth it. I have tried newer amps and I just do not like them. Some of the Rotel stuff is pretty decent to my ears but I don't know how the headphone out is and you pay over $700.

Those amps from the 70's were built to last mine is 31 years old and just this last year has decided to fail and it can be fixed for a decent price. Plus being all black it isn't gaudy like some of the silver/wood beasts (wish I still had my Marantz
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)

I could have had the LSi15's for $700 but I didnt have the extra money god I wish I could have bought those.
 
Feb 7, 2008 at 7:22 PM Post #26 of 32
Nice. I'll look into those reconditioned stuff.
wink.gif


Speaking of Marantz, have you see Marantz reference series stuff? There is a Marantz reference series integrated amp on their website, and the list price is $4000! That's one hell of a beast!
 
Feb 7, 2008 at 7:24 PM Post #27 of 32
When I do decide to upgrade, you will be the first to know! But we will have some serious discussions about that price you just quoted me...
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Quote:

Originally Posted by soundboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I personally think it was a big mistake buying the amp as well. Except that I will offer to dump the amp for you....heck, I will pay you $150.00 to send it to me and I can get rid of it for you
biggrin.gif


Congrats on the amp!! One day, I will own one of these beasts



 
Feb 7, 2008 at 7:26 PM Post #28 of 32
Thank you for clearing that up. Man, for a second there I was kind of worried.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif
C'mon, are you serious?
redface.gif


The Panasonic isn't even 4-ohm stable. Good luck driving anything at 4 ohms with one, regardless of THD. Besides, the Panasonic's analog input section measures so poorly it's not even close to being able to reproduce a regular CD's dynamic range (85 dB SNR vs. 96 dB).

Edit: If you look closely, you'll note that the 4-ohm THD spec for the Denon is rated in DIN, not RMS. "Continuous power output" = RMS, which is why Panasonic's two measurements are the same in that section. I have a feeling if Denon bothered measuring that way, they would have 0.07% in both places.

Panasonic's DIN Power is listed in the lower-right hand corner of the specs page. 1% THD at 6 ohms.
biggrin.gif



 
Feb 7, 2008 at 7:40 PM Post #29 of 32

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