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Teclast T39 and Cowon D2 - Under the Hood

post #1 of 39
1/21/08 at 6:23pm
Thread Starter 
I noticed the Teclast T39 being suggested in some recent threads- I missed this player altogether when deciding what player to get before purchasing my D2 (it didn't fit my requirements anyway). Hardware-wise these players have very similar layouts.

The D2 was released in Korea in November 2006, the T39 in May/June 2007.

Side by Side Specs:

Cowon D2 = Telechips TCC7801 + Wolfson WM8985G
Teclast T39 = Telechips TCC8200 + Wolfson WM8978G

Telechips specs:
TCC7801 = dual core ARM926EJ-S + ARM946ES 300MHz, 96K SRAM, video hardware accel
TCC8200 = ARM946E-S CPU core 200MHz, 64K SRAM + 2/4/8 MB SDRAM + graphics accel

Wolfson Specs:
WM8985 = DAC SNR 98db thd -84db | ADC SNR 92.5db thd -83db
headpone/line driver: 40mw/channel, class D, class AB
headphone driver+dac (class D): SNR 97db, THD -79
headphone driver+dac (class AB): SNR 97db, THD -80db

WM8978G = DAC SNR 98db THD -84db | ADC SNR 95db THD -84db
headphone driver: 40mw/channel, +.9W output into 8ohm speaker
headphone driver+dac: SNR 102db, THD -92

Players that use the WM8985: D2
Players that use the WM8978*: Ipod 5g, Zune 1G, Zune 30, Teclast T39


side by side pics courtesy of pmptoday:



Based on hardware specs alone I'll stick with my D2.

However I wonder who is making what and how it went down. Did Teclast find a China manufacturer that was doing D2 assembly and get a deal for a clone? Perhaps Cowon sold them firmware? From the looks of it though, the T39 users are pretty happy as long as their firmware is from december 2007 or newer.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Cowon D2+ 16 GB MP3 Player (Black)
Cowon D2+ 8 GB MP3 Player (Black)
Cowon D2 2GB Portable Media Player (Black)
post #2 of 39
1/21/08 at 7:12pm
Good players mostly the D2 of course...thanks for the specs sheet.
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post #3 of 39
1/22/08 at 10:24am
Cowons are produced in Korea, Teclast and all its rebrands in China. They are independent businesses. Teclast T39 provides better SQ than D2, BTW.
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post #4 of 39
1/22/08 at 10:32am
Wait for D3
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post #5 of 39
1/22/08 at 4:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by majkel View Post
Cowons are produced in Korea, Teclast and all its rebrands in China. They are independent businesses. Teclast T39 provides better SQ than D2, BTW.
yea I'd like to get them side by die no doubt.
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post #6 of 39
1/22/08 at 6:37pm
T39 pro:
Better SQ than D2 (D2 sound robertic on human voice)
Better on power. ( I use it to drive PK1 without amp)
SQ is very very good on flac format

T39 cons:
Bad firmware support (still tons of bugs, no flv support yet)
Not very good on low frequecy extend

T39 + PK1 + WAV = can sound close or better than PCDP but there is bugs when playing WAV, it has little pop....pop sound randomly during play back.........

If SQ is the most important, you should go with T39.
Otherwise, go with D2.

So far, I am happy with T39 + PK1 + Flac!
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post #7 of 39
1/22/08 at 9:06pm
T39 will be outdated soon by Cowon's new offering...which will have better firmware support + user interface.
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post #8 of 39
1/22/08 at 9:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by faichiu View Post
T39 pro:
Better SQ than D2 (D2 sound robertic on human voice)
Better on power. ( I use it to drive PK1 without amp)
SQ is very very good on flac format
Quote:
Originally Posted by majkel
Cowons are produced in Korea, Teclast and all its rebrands in China. They are independent businesses. Teclast T39 provides better SQ than D2, BTW.
I'm calling you guys out as T39 spin doctors. The D2 has a better quality wolfson and they both came from a similar stock of firmware. According to you two Cowon was able to somehow degrade the sound quality with their firmware while Teclast was able to get more quality out of theirs despite lower quality hardware and a fraction of the time in development.

Majkel, I've only seen you give black/white comparisons on the D2s sound quality while praising the T39. I respect that you are well traveled with the portables you've heard, but to me it sounds like you are just feeding FUD.
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post #9 of 39
1/22/08 at 10:56pm
Double posted by accident. Look below.
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post #10 of 39
1/22/08 at 10:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbagump View Post
I'm calling you guys out as T39 spin doctors. The D2 has a better quality wolfson and they both came from a similar stock of firmware. According to you two Cowon was able to somehow degrade the sound quality with their firmware while Teclast was able to get more quality out of theirs despite lower quality hardware and a fraction of the time in development.

Majkel, I've only seen you give black/white comparisons on the D2s sound quality while praising the T39. I respect that you are well traveled with the portables you've heard, but to me it sounds like you are just feeding FUD.
Same situation with the Zune 30 and Zune 80. Z30 uses an 8978G just like the T39, whereas the new Zunes (80, 4 and 8) uses an 8350G. Going by the numbers, one would assume the Zune 30 would sound better, because of the newer generation chip, yet people doing side by side comparisons of the new and old generation find the new generation Zune 80 (etc.) to be better, even with the supposedly inferior audio processor.
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post #11 of 39
1/23/08 at 1:56am
According to your comparing theory, the mp3 player that has same chipset will have same SQ. Then there is no different on SQ between Ipod 5g, Zune 1G, Zune 30, Teclast T39.

SQ is various on chipset + "circuit design" + software.
You only metion chipset + software.

If you think Teclast has low quality hardware, you may interest to take a look at the pcb board first.













Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbagump View Post
I'm calling you guys out as T39 spin doctors. The D2 has a better quality wolfson and they both came from a similar stock of firmware. According to you two Cowon was able to somehow degrade the sound quality with their firmware while Teclast was able to get more quality out of theirs despite lower quality hardware and a fraction of the time in development.

Majkel, I've only seen you give black/white comparisons on the D2s sound quality while praising the T39. I respect that you are well traveled with the portables you've heard, but to me it sounds like you are just feeding FUD.
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post #12 of 39
1/23/08 at 4:09am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by faichiu View Post
According to your comparing theory, the mp3 player that has same chipset will have same SQ. Then there is no different on SQ between Ipod 5g, Zune 1G, Zune 30, Teclast T39.

SQ is various on chipset + "circuit design" + software.
You only metion chipset + software.

If you think Teclast has low quality hardware, you may interest to take a look at the pcb board first.
I'm not into your trolling (showing me a pcb and stating the obvious and making blanket statements) -- I'm just skeptical of someone who comes out and loudly states the SQ is better on a new device like its a known fact when as far as I can tell there is a grand total of one person on headfi that has actually compared the player to anything.

thats all.
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post #13 of 39
1/23/08 at 4:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbagump View Post
"....making blanket statements...."
Blanket statements?

"....The D2 has a better quality wolfson...."

Gee. Are you SURE the D2 has a better "wolfson"?

Your argument that the D2 is better than " Made in China player A" because its backed by the reputable Cowon is like saying ; "The Apple iPod is better built than any ol' "China" player because it has the Apple logo on it", when infact its parts are mainly manufactured and assembled in China.

"The D2 sounds better than the T39."

"The T39 sounds better than the D2."

Above are blanket statements. Both of them tell opposite of eachother, but neither one of said statements are wrong. Same can be said about opinions.
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post #14 of 39
1/23/08 at 5:11am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amblin View Post
Blanket statements?

"....The D2 has a better quality wolfson...."

Gee. Are you SURE the D2 has a better "wolfson"?
not a blanket statement. Go download the wolfson datasheets and compare for yourself. In reality I understand that it may not boil down to thd and snr measurements when analog sound leaves the headphone jack, but specwise thats a pretty neutral statement.

this is not to say that I'm itching to get my hands on a t39 and see how it sounds. The T39 looks like a fantastic PMP. If the T39 had an expansion slot I'd be second guessing my D2 until I could compare them side by side.
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post #15 of 39
1/23/08 at 8:45am
bubbagump, what is the reason of opening this thread? Mainly you're showing lack of education in electronics.
1) WM8985 is nowhere better than the WM8978, given their applications discussed here.
2) Read faichiu's posts and try to understand it. The codec is not the only thing that matters for SQ. This is also PCB layout and passive elements like resistors and mostly like capacitors. There are lots of WM8750 based players - iAudio, iPod, iRiver, others, and each one sounds different. Guess why?
I post my observations regarding the D2 and the V39 which I both owned for a couple of weeks, tested them in deep and the T39 is actually my second player now. I'm a bit of DIYing which taught me what may change the sound signature and it's not just a single chip. It's the whole circuit and layout. I've been also beta-testing some upcoming players and will continue to do this as a non-profit forum support in my country, so I can say what players sound like, of course I haven't heard all of them but many popular models were in my hands.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Cowon D2+ 16 GB MP3 Player (Black)
Cowon D2+ 8 GB MP3 Player (Black)
Cowon D2 2GB Portable Media Player (Black)
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