New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Orgy of Capacitors: The Cap Thread - Page 7

post #91 of 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioCats View Post
what is your tester's voltage requirement? I have some .22uf coming, but they are only 100v DC rated. If that is high enough I can send a pair over.
He was asking me for 500 volt versions, so i guess 100 volts isn't nearly enough.
post #92 of 553
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
He was asking me for 500 volt versions, so i guess 100 volts isn't nearly enough.
That's right. I've got some 100V versions myself..
post #93 of 553
Thread Starter 
Russian K40y Paper-In-Oil Capacitor



I must thank “Bob B” and “Les Lemmars” for kindly loaning me these K40y caps. After the usual rocky burn-in ritual, this PIO cap settled into a confident, natural sounding device. There are some audiophiles who rank these PIO caps as the best of the Russian military caps, including the FT-3 and K72 teflon caps. I may agree with this sentiment when it comes to utter naturalness and ease of presentation as well as the lack of a subtle “plastic” sound, which of course all plastic (film) caps have.

Gladly, this PIO cap did not have an overly dark, laid-back sound some people may expect of PIO caps. The important midrange energy was quite forceful and engaging as well as richly harmonic. The rendering of textures was most reminiscent of a good vinyl setup, which is a good thing; and detail resolution was not lacking, either, but the extreme “air” on top was not as beautifully alive as with VCap teflons. Speaking of teflons, the only real reservation I have about K40y is in the bass. The VCap Teflon, K72, FT3, Sonicap Platinum all seem to have a tighter control over basslines with sharper leading edges and snappier decay. K40y’s bass is more woody, richer, but just shy of the vise-grip crunch, so if you’re a death-metal or electronica fan, K40y may not get you to the promised land.

Overall, I really enjoyed the K40y. Its raison d’tere falls squarely in the critical midrange, where tons of texture, bloom, and natural detail anchor the music without that subtle synthetic feel of many other caps. Although the voices aren’t brightly spotlit, there is a magical highlighting and intensification without turning bright.

Dare I dream of oil-impregnated foamed-teflon silver-foil capacitor…?
-----------------------------------
Vishay Roederstein MKP-1839 Metalized Polypropylene Capacitor



Audio Circle member “slbender” was kind enough to send me some less-than-exotic caps to evaluate, including the Vishay MKP-1839. His view is that most caps of similar construction, e.g. metallized poly, should sound very similar, no matter the brand or price. This was a good exercise for me because it helped with the “Big Question” that must be lurking in the minds of many audiophiles: are these expensive, exotic capacitors worth it?

Vishay MKP-1839 is the axial version of the more famous Vishay Roederstein MKP1837 (a.k.a. ERO MKP1830), which is touted as a good bypass cap, and represents a well-made, inexpensive metallized poly cap. And as it turns out, it also sounds good as a coupling cap. Upon casual listening from a casual house guest, for example, it is unlikely he will jump up and down and scream, “Put back that other capacitor X ASAP!”

MKP-1839 sounds pretty well-balanced, without obvious peaks or valleys, and pleasant; it is less hard-sounding than, say Solens. In fact, one can only wish manufacturers would use caps like MKP-1839 in their cheaper, generic audio gear. So, why should you pay more for your cap?

The most important difference between MKP and some of the better caps is the weight behind the notes. I’m not talking about bass weight or warmth but the fully fleshed-out, 3-dimensional harmonic energy behind each note, be it in treble, mid, or bass. Lacking this, soprano, chime, flute can sound just 2-dimentional and thin, failing to fully make you believe.

The other significant difference is in dynamics. The MKP doesn’t sound too lacking until you compare to the better caps. A “pop” or “thwack” via MKP sounds like a fighter who is punching to save his neighbor’s life whereas via a better cap, he sounds like he’s punching to save his own life. Similar difference in microdynamics as well; better caps simply let the small nuances and subtleties to bubble to the surface with easier effervescence and life.

I still don’t believe any of this truly answers the question whether exotic caps are worth it because the answer will depend on one’s gear, tastes, resolution level of the system, musical choice, pocketbook status, and simply how crazy you are. Time to enjoy the music, either way, any way…
post #94 of 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L View Post

snip

Dare I dream of oil-impregnated foamed-teflon silver-foil capacitor…?

snip
I've put some little FT-1 teflon caps in parallel with some K40s. So far .... I like them a lot.
post #95 of 553
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordgtlover View Post
I've put some little FT-1 teflon caps in parallel with some K40s. So far .... I like them a lot.
What values of each? The big question is, does that combo have the ultra-defined, razor-sharp bass of teflon alone?
post #96 of 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L View Post
What values of each? The big question is, does that combo have the ultra-defined, razor-sharp bass of teflon alone?
This is on my new Bijou. In its standard confiuration it has 470uf electrolytic output caps bypassed by 1uf polypropylene caps. I have installed 0.1uf K40 and 0.01uf FT-1 caps in parallel with the poly cap.

I previously had the 1uf poly cap paralleled with a .22uf K75 russian cap. While the bass was very nice, the highs were lacking.

With the current combination, I feel that the bass might be lacking a little in punch rather than range, but the highs extend to the sky and are crystal clear.

This weekend I will replace the 1uf polypropylene caps with some 1uf K40 and parallel those with the same 0.1uf K40 and 0.01uf FT-1 caps. I'll report back after I do this.

UPDATE:
The 1uf K40, 0.1uf K40, 0.01uf FT-1 parallel combination sounds really nice (to my ears, of course). No missing bottom end, and mids and highs all seem present and accounted for. I'll see how this combination goes over the next week or so.
post #97 of 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L View Post
What values of each? The big question is, does that combo have the ultra-defined, razor-sharp bass of teflon alone?
The venhaus oimps go deep as well, well defined good bodied bass.
post #98 of 553
Most of my favorite budget caps were tested in the diyaudio Tripath Input Coupling Cap thread, where I donated some lesser known caps. I can donate my favorite Epcos MKV B25834 oil caps (3.3uf), but the only stock available is from Germany. I wonder if it's a good idea to test caps that aren't readily available, but if there is interest, I'll pass them on. If people are willing to pay V-Cap prices, then getting these shipped from Germany isn't all that expensive in comparison. Let me know.
post #99 of 553
great work Jon L, this thread made me bought some FT-3 teflons.... and they are indeed really good. A couple of questions though:
* how long do these FT3 teflons take to burn-in?
* How do these "rather inexpensive" teflons compare with similar priced caps, such as Mundorf Silver/Oil and Silver/Gold?
(the current FT3 price on ebay is $8/0.22uf after shipping, so about $40/uf. Mundorf Silver/oil is roughly $50, pretty close).
post #100 of 553
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioCats View Post
* how long do these FT3 teflons take to burn-in?
* How do these "rather inexpensive" teflons compare with similar priced caps, such as Mundorf Silver/Oil and Silver/Gold?
(the current FT3 price on ebay is $8/0.22uf after shipping, so about $40/uf. Mundorf Silver/oil is roughly $50, pretty close).
It's hard to give an exact number of hours, but I would say listen to them for at least a couple of weeks before deciding. As far as whether FT3 is as good as Mundorf's, all I can say after all these months is that they all sound differently excellnet.

BTW, this whole cap comparison made publication on enjoythemusic!
Capacitor Musings Article By Jon L DIY Audio Kits Reviews

That's not the end, though, since I now have some more interesting caps to test, including Epcos polypropylene in oil, Dynamicap, liquid-teflon injected Russian K72 caps, Penta Labs teflon caps, etc. More to be posted in the coming weeks
post #101 of 553
Thread Starter 
Epcos (Siemens Matsu****a) MKV B25834 polypropylene in oil capacitor



Epcos was founded by Siemens Matsu****a, who sold all its interests in 2006. MKV B25834 is a polypropylene in oil cap like the Siemens MKV radial capacitor talked about previously. Mundorf silver/oil also happens to be polypropylene in oil, so it was not a great surprise that Epcos sounded somewhat similar to Mundorf silver/oil when directly substituted in Mundorf’s place. Not that they sounded the same, mind you, but both shared a sense of liquidity and grace, which helped music just flow effortlessly.

Compared to silver/oil, Epcos had a bit more richness to voices and even more apparent smoothness in the upper-midrange region, but it conceded some sheer resolution and attack. Silver/oil sounded more like a “modern” film capacitor while Epcos leaned more in the direction of paper-in-oil caps without overt darkness or lack of resolution. I was especially glad to observe Epcos not to possess overly rounded or slow bass like some paper-in-oils can.

The Epcos, not surprisingly, sounds VERY much like the Siemens MKV polypropylene in oil capacitor I described earlier. Both sound balanced, if not extraordinarily extended or obviously “airy” up top. Human voices have fluidity, richness, and sparkling liveliness that’s so endearing. If you are a die-hard Teflon or polystyrene fan, you will likely call these poly oil caps a bit slower and not as lit-up, but the fans of the poly oils will call it the opposite.

A great strategy is to use the Epcos with something like Russian K72 teflon cap somewhere else in the component. K72’s enthusiastic, bold, slightly upper-midrange-centric sound signature complements the ease of Epcos very well while lending the whole package a dollop of Teflon resolution. This combo sounds mighty nice, and I must thank “dweekie” for pointing me to these Epcos capacitors.

-----------------------------------------

Fluorinert-Injected Russian K72 Teflon capacitor



Fluorinert is an electrically insulating, inert perfluorocarbon fluid developed by 3M as electronics coolant that some have called “liquid teflon.” These K72 caps were injected with Fluorinert by “Serengetiplains,” who was gracious enough to let me try them. Fluorinert K72 and regular K72 do sound different, but not night-and-day different. After all, K72 possesses a very unique and distinct sound one can recognize from a mile away.

What Fluorinert does seem to do is smooth out the upper ranges somewhat while subduing the vividness and spice a dash. For those who feel K72 is way too forward and brash for their tastes (I don’t...much), this will bring a welcome change, especially if your system has too much sibilance with the stock K72. The changes brought on by Fluorinert remind me of the sort of changes one hears when applying damping material to equipment chassis. In fact, the changes are in the similar direction as when I applied EAR isodamp material to the outside of the K72, though Fluorinert seems to have even greater effect.

There are two issues with Fluorinert K72. One, it is not commercially available, so you have to either DIY it yourself or ask someone to make and sell it to you. Second, as one may guess from my description, Fluorinert does decrease the apparent upper-air sparkle and a certain “flair” of the stock K72 somewhat. If your personal tastes or your equipment fancies to such personality of stock K72, then Fluorinert may not necessarily sound “better” to you, proving once again YMMV, etc.
post #102 of 553
Thread Starter 
Penta Labs TFT Teflon Capacitor



Who is Penta Labs? I’ve heard the name in the past, but mostly in relation to Penta Labs tubes. According to their website, “Penta Laboratories is a Manufacturer and Distributor of vacuum tubes, capacitors and electron tubes for Broadcast, Industrial, Marine and Avionics applications worldwide.” They also make a teflon capacitor which I am including here, but this is for general interest only as the Penta cap available to me falls somewhere between my small and large reference capacitance range.

In comparison to Russian Teflon capacitors, especially the K72 and Fluorinert K72, Penta initially comes across as smoother and more forgiving but also with less obvious sparkling detail and dynamic pop. However, Penta seems to take forever to “settle into” a spot after soldering (even after long burn-in before soldering), so continue listening, and one realizes certain things just sound more “right,” especially the piano and other instruments that have significant extreme high-frequency harmonic content. These seem to have finer sonic pixels compared to Russian teflons, but each pixel is not as lit-up, if you can picture that. Yet there’s no denying they have tons of resolution and purity, so the combination of supple richness and resolution forces you to keep listening to music. In fact, Penta Labs kind of reminds me of that denser, richer, more elegant school of Teflon sound possessed by Sonicap Platinum capacitors.
post #103 of 553
Out of the caps you've tried, I think the Relcap RTX and RT (which perhaps you haven't tried) are my favorites for coupling. I haven't decided on a good bypass and was considering the FT-1 teflons, or my standard ROE MKP1837 / MKP1830. Any opinions on a good match with these?
post #104 of 553
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvdunhill View Post
Out of the caps you've tried, I think the Relcap RTX and RT (which perhaps you haven't tried) are my favorites for coupling. I haven't decided on a good bypass and was considering the FT-1 teflons, or my standard ROE MKP1837 / MKP1830. Any opinions on a good match with these?
If you are a fan of RTX (Haven't tried RT) and MKP1837, it may be worth trying out the Mundorf Zn, which is quite nice and quite affordable. FT-1 teflons will certainly work well in bypass as well.

I just got in some smaller value FT-3 teflon caps to try as bypasses, but haven't had a chance yet..
post #105 of 553
Jon,
Another cap you may want to take a look at are the Erse PulseX that diycable is selling now. I messed up on my cap selection for my preamp (Dynamicaps) and wound up needing larger than 1uf for the output coupling cap. I went ahead and ordered a pair of the 250V Erse 8uf and so far they sound pretty good. I'm still probably going to do the Dynamicaps for these, but at ~$4-$5 a pop, I can live with these for a bit. They also have 630V available (though nowhere near the size I need).
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav: