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K1000 with First Watt F1 or F3?

post #1 of 36
3/29/07 at 3:59pm
Thread Starter 
Wanted to know if anyone had compared the First Watt F1 versus F3 for the AKG K1000? Your thoughts would be much appreciated.
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post #2 of 36
3/29/07 at 6:06pm
From what I have read from the diyaudio forum, f1 is the most neutral, f2 is the most colorized (not in a bad way) and f3 is something in between.
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post #3 of 36
3/29/07 at 7:09pm
all of the reviews i've read on these have been conflicting about one thing: which First Watt models use balanced XLRs, and which don't? someone answering this would be a big help for me.
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post #4 of 36
3/29/07 at 7:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by varro View Post
From what I have read from the diyaudio forum, f1 is the most neutral, f2 is the most colorized (not in a bad way) and f3 is something in between.
What do you mean by coloration? The numbers would suggest that the f3, the lowest measured distortion of the three, would be the least colorized.

I'm listening to the F1 now and neutral is the best description I can think of!

Thanks for the input.
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post #5 of 36
3/30/07 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by smk5r View Post
What do you mean by coloration? The numbers would suggest that the f3, the lowest measured distortion of the three, would be the least colorized.

I'm listening to the F1 now and neutral is the best description I can think of!

Thanks for the input.
I seem to have mixed the f3 with f4, I found the exact post: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...46#post1152546
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post #6 of 36
3/30/07 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelonious Monk View Post
all of the reviews i've read on these have been conflicting about one thing: which First Watt models use balanced XLRs, and which don't? someone answering this would be a big help for me.
of the models produced by Nelson Pass only the F1 is balanced.

As far as colorations, according to Nelson Pass from his First Watt web site the F1 and F2 are both simple circuts with the F2 being the simpler of the two. Each amp emphasises different harmonics neither is more colored than the other.

To the OP it may be a factor of your needs the F1 has plenty of power providing you are using it with a cdp with built in volume. I would not use a passive with this set up as you are bound to get mixed results. I have an axiom passive pre that did well but my ASL passive robbed the music of some of it's life and could have used a more powerfull amp. A great and less expensive tubed pre amp is the minimax, on audiogon used they go between $550-700 and are an outstanding value. I borrowed one last week for use with my first watt and was impressed.
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post #7 of 36
3/30/07 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp11801 View Post
To the OP it may be a factor of your needs the F1 has plenty of power providing you are using it with a cdp with built in volume. I would not use a passive with this set up as you are bound to get mixed results. I have an axiom passive pre that did well but my ASL passive robbed the music of some of it's life and could have used a more powerfull amp. A great and less expensive tubed pre amp is the minimax, on audiogon used they go between $550-700 and are an outstanding value. I borrowed one last week for use with my first watt and was impressed.
I will get a K1000 soon and I'm thinking about building an F1 or F2, but I don't have a pre or the money to get one. I thought I could simply install a pot in the DIY F1/2 amp, is there a way to predict the results? Are some pots better than the others at not "robbing the music of some of it's life"?
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post #8 of 36
3/30/07 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Quichotte View Post
I will get a K1000 soon and I'm thinking about building an F1 or F2, but I don't have a pre or the money to get one. I thought I could simply install a pot in the DIY F1/2 amp, is there a way to predict the results? Are some pots better than the others at not "robbing the music of some of it's life"?
this is an area where I am somewhat over my head, on audiogon if you do a search on passive pre amps you will find two intersting designs that should be relatively easy to diy, they are passive attenuators attatch to the rca's inputs of the amp and seem to be pretty highly rated.
You also may want to look at the bottle head pre amps as a lower cost diy solution
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post #9 of 36
3/30/07 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp11801 View Post
this is an area where I am somewhat over my head, on audiogon if you do a search on passive pre amps you will find two intersting designs that should be relatively easy to diy, they are passive attenuators attatch to the rca's inputs of the amp and seem to be pretty highly rated.
You also may want to look at the bottle head pre amps as a lower cost diy solution
I could only find one passive pre on Audiogon, something for sale (much too expensive for me), using Vishnay resistors - maybe I didn't know how to search. Sorry for the ignorance, is there any difference between a passive attenuator and a potentiometer?
Thanks.
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post #10 of 36
3/30/07 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Quichotte View Post
I could only find one passive pre on Audiogon, something for sale (much too expensive for me), using Vishnay resistors - maybe I didn't know how to search. Sorry for the ignorance, is there any difference between a passive attenuator and a potentiometer?
Thanks.
here are a few of the lesser expensive ways to control volume they are limited to a single source though
Enders Attenuators review
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss...ttenuators.htm
Axiom web page with links to user reviews
http://www.luminousaudio.com/axiom.html
More thoughts on Enders at Audiogon
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr...d&zzTrelja&4&5
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post #11 of 36
3/30/07 at 3:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Quichotte View Post
I will get a K1000 soon and I'm thinking about building an F1 or F2, but I don't have a pre or the money to get one. I thought I could simply install a pot in the DIY F1/2 amp, is there a way to predict the results? Are some pots better than the others at not "robbing the music of some of it's life"?
Unless you are going to go "all out" with the pot, i.e. stepped, I would highly recommend both the Endler attenuator and EVS "nude" Ultimate attenuators. I have owned/used both for years. They both sound better than simple separate passive preamps b/c lack of internal wiring and need for extra run of interconnects, i.e. less capacitance and expense.

The advantage of doing it this way is you don't need to put holes and extraneous knobs on the (presumed) beautiful chassis, that future perspective buyers may not want (or want to pay for).

Both Endler and EVS, when used in a reasonably passive-friendly system, will make many, MANY active preamps sound veiled, colored, and subtractive as well as additive.
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post #12 of 36
8/16/07 at 3:08pm
I dug very deep into my search to find this thread.

Bumping it up from the deep archive, I ask the same question as the OP because though I have seen that the First Watt F1 has heavenly synergy with the K1000s, I read up a bit on the F3 as well

6moons:
Quote:
Where the F1 and F2 still had me wishing for a tube preamp, the F3 did not and I enjoyed it most of the time au naturel, with the stunning transformer-attenuating Music First Passive Magnetic.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/firstwatt4/f3_3.html

But being a voltage source amplifier, would it be less suited to the K1000 in comparison to the F1 which is a current source amplifier?

Cheers.
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post #13 of 36
8/16/07 at 5:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mofonyx View Post
But being a voltage source amplifier, would it be less suited to the K1000 in comparison to the F1 which is a current source amplifier?
Cheers.
While I can't quite comment on your question, I experienced solid performance out of the K1000 when I owned a Pass Labs Aleph 3. The First Watt current source amps are certainly not the only way to go here. But I will be able to tell you more soon after my F1 arrives next week
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post #14 of 36
8/16/07 at 5:29pm
Dude you are the reason why I got hooked on the K1000s when you said that the Aleph 3 was a good partner.

Now look at me, I'm a full-on addict.

And also for selling me my first "real" source, the Lavry DA10.
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post #15 of 36
8/16/07 at 9:24pm
I think Canman has gotten a few of us addicted. I haven't heard the F3 but the F1 in combination with a nice tube preamp is K1000 heaven. Of course, my WA5 is no slouch either.
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