Damn thats a beautiful amp. Now I want a RKV...

Hi people......first the CD1700 has nothing to do with the CD3000, simple IMO the CD3000 has a better sound, and OTOH, I don't see any insult in trying to pair the RKV a very nice sounding and a beautiful amp (if is because it was not designed for low impedance cans, is OK) with probably one of the best sounding cans (if not the best after the R10) the CD3000 is a lot better of what people think in fact, see markl reviews or ask hirsch, and a lot of people here, I have one now and only hooked to my main amp, without the need of anything else, the sound is awesome, to the point that the HD600 are on the way to someone else, it outperformed it many times, just that in the WOHT it was not matched with the right amp that's it, the same as if you pair a HD600 with a portable CD player, according to many headfiers here is better than any Grado or ATH or so, this is accourding to the opinion of the some of the most experineced headfiers that had listen all of them (I have only listen a few of them) people like it or not!!!! period...

Please servininecuador, I think that you better post your review to stop this crusade!!!!!

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did anybody else notice that that's just one big sentence? or at least supposed to be..

i realize that the cd1700 and cd3000 are different model headphones, but i have read and feel that they have a similar sound, kind of like the hd580 and hd600. i have heard both of them, but the cd1700 was the model that i heard with my rkv. this amp definitely improved the sound of what i normally consider a grossly overpriced headphone that i never plan on owning.

the cd3000's were being run from a headroom home amp at the woh tour, which retails for $700. running the hd600's out of a portable cd player is not an equal comparison, but just a poor and useless analogy. to each his own, but to see somebody say that the cd3000 is "one of the best sounding cans (if not the best after the R10)" is just.. well, nevermind.

"did anybody else notice that that's just one big sentence? or at least supposed to be.."

First this is not a grammar forum, I was just trying to express an idea the best way I could, in a languaje that is not my native... period, and you got it right, in mine I can speak and write like that sorry if is confusing for you and I apologize for that, grinch

but to the point that seems to bother some people here....

"one of the best sounding cans (if not the best after the R10)"

I do not say that, I do not have the oportunity to hear some many other expensive cans, I wish, but people who have heard more than me, are convinced of their sonic qualities, and to the point of what I have heard, is a really and extremelly good sounding headphone:

Here is one of the comments posted by markl in the permanent section of this forum even when is only a comparison between it and the HD600, I think that could give you an idea of what we the people who own it are talking, and if I would posted the link nobody is gonna read it, this way least.....I will try, as you may notice, I'm not the only one who likes that one, sorry, I wish that I could write like this guy, but simply I can't, so wit hhis permission I will quote his words and as he mention other quotes of so many others I think this should be enough:

"Backstory:
I've compared my beloved HD600s to all the major competitors in their price range with the exception of the K1000 from AKG. Grado RS1 sounded "fake" and colored to me. The ER4S was an excellent phone, but the ergonomics just wouldn't work for me. So, now I have ordered the Sony CD3000 just to satisfy myself that there is no better phone available than the HD600. I've had the Sonys for a little over a week, they have about 70 hrs. of burn-in, and I have logged over 30 hours on them. I've owned the Senns for over a year, and owned the HD580 for years before that.
Review:
If you consider the HD600 and the Grado RS1 to be two opposite ends of the high-end headphone spectrum, the Sony CD3000s are closer in sound to the Senns. Anyone who says "all Sony phones suck", either has a hidden agenda, a bias against Sony, or simply hasn't heard these phones. They are definitely in the same league in terms of performance as the ER4S, RS1, and HD600.
Soundstage/Imaging:
Much, much "larger" soundstage than the HD600s. You are moved to front row center. The sound is more "immediate" and "faster" than the HD600s. Left to right imaging exceeds that of the HD600s which already did a great job. Electronic effects that drift around make an unbroken line when they move left to right-- it's very realistic with no "hole" in the middle. I've never found a headphone yet that had a compelling sense of "depth", and the Sonys are no worse than any other phone in this respect. Verdict: a slight edge to the Sonys.
Treble:
This is the make-or-break area with any phone for me. If the treble is abrasive, spitty, gritty, or piercing-- I'm gone. Ditto if the sound is stifled, claustrophobic or muffled. I always found that the Senns with a tube amp did the highs better than any other set of phones I've owned. Listening to the Sony's has now made me aware that the Senns are slightly etched and hashy in comparison. The Sonys have an amazing clarity that makes horns, trumpets and female vocals sound just fantastic.
There is a lot more treble energy with the Sonys. In my system with my amp, this sounds clear and smooth, although a touch "sweet" compared to the HD600s. I don't mind the extra "sweetness", but it's a coloration that can be too much with poorly recorded, "tinny"-sounding music. It's fabulous on well-recorded records though, top notch. However, this comes at a price: I notice my ears ring a little after a long session with the Sonys. Verdict: I like the treble on the Sonys on most recordings over the HD600s.
Mids:
Slightly more midrange "presence" than the somewhat "hollow"-sounding Senns (possible hump in the Sony's midrange?). Detail and resolution is equivalent to the Senns, although I would say the Sonys are a bit "warmer" and "richer" sounding than the relatively sterile HD600s. You can't go wrong with the mids of the Sonys-- they're clean and appealing and draw you in to the sound. Verdict: I prefer the Sony's mids over the 600s.
Bass:
Most likely due to the larger drivers, the Sonys have much more kick and punch than the 600s. There is more bass information, but I still question if it really goes as low as the 600s. I don't think it delivers the lowest registers as well as the 600s. Drums, however really come to life on the Sony's. The low bass of electronica albums sounds pretty tight and convincingly deep. Verdict: a draw between the bass of the 600s and the Sonys.
About My Results:
My amp, the ZOTL has a very laid-back character with an incredibly smooth and easy presentation. I wonder how the Sony's would sound with solid-state? Would the sweet highs be a bit too much? Might the sound get a touch brittle and hashy?
Final Remarks:
I never saw the utility of owning more than one set of cans, but I'm leaning toward keeping both phones. I would take the Sony's out to listen to well-recorded modern discs and recently remastered older CDs. It's not so good with older "brittle"-sounding or poorly recorded discs. It may also not perform quite as well as the HD600 on very intense tracks where there are lots of loud instruments playing simultaneously. For those, the Senns seem to work better and keep sound separated and distinct.
Overall, very impressed with the Sony CD3000 and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. In some areas I believe it bests the HD600.
The CD3000s have officially replaced the HD600 as my weapon of choice. I think my mental "break-in" period with the CD3000 is over. This is an addicting sound that just gets more enjoyable.
When I trade back and forth between them, I just can't believe how "muffled" and distant the HD600 sounds. I start lusting for the Sonys again after a few minutes with the 600s and off they go! I'm getting where I prefer the Sonys on almost any recording, good or bad. It does much better on many more CDs in my collection than the HD600. I would say they are good all-around phones for almost any musical style.
I think I can confirm that you will need a good source with these. It's quite a revealing phone with unmatched palpability. If you're feeding them doo-doo, they're gonna give you the clearest picture of doo-doo you've ever seen. You've just got to hear good, full-range modern recordings on these phones! Pretty amazing.
If anyone is considering the CD3000s I recommend the ZOTL as an amp. Great combination-- synergy!

Here is more of markl with some quotes of another well known members, if all these are not enough:

Why am I doing this? Because the more I listen to my CD3000s, the more passionate I feel about these phones. I think you might like them, too. This exercise should help us identify when and where these phones are appropriate, and for whom.

I agree 100% with that prior statement!!!!

Soundstage/Imaging:
Conventional wisdom: Large soundstage with superior left-to-right imaging.

"Much, much "larger" soundstage than the HD600s. You are moved to front row center. Left to right imaging exceeds that of the HD600s which already did a great job. Electronic effects that drift around make an unbroken line when they move left to right-- it's very realistic. " Markl

"Soundstage...nice and wide...the 3000s are closed, but it sure don't sound like it." Vertigo1

"There seems to be much less of the left/right/center blobs of sound, and more of a complete sound stage with the Sonys." Danamr

"The soundstage for a closed can is simply amazing, in fact astonishing at times." MusicLover

"Spatially, these would certainly be the best headphones I've heard. There is a layering of instruments from left to right, and front to back, with no blurring between instrumental and vocal lines, with individual elements in a complex mix (e.g. a flute or clarinet in an orchestral passage) clearly standing out. What's more, this "layering" of instruments has a very natural spatial quality, almost as if facing the stage, without the strange spatial reconstruction the Sennheisers seem to engage in. I never use the image processing on the Headroom amp, and I found it was even less necessary with the 3000s, since their presentation is so natural in this respect that it seems completely unnecessary. They do not produce the "blobs in the head" effect, and have a wonderful ability to produce music which sounds as if it is external, rather than focussed in the middle of your head." RossB

Speed and Attack:
Conventional wisdom: these are fast phones with realistic attack.

" The 3000s are very fast, with good impact." RossB

"The sound is more "immediate" and "faster" than the HD600s" markl

"For a very fast paced, dynamic, punchy, bright sound, go with the CD3000s. " Vertigo1

Resolution/Detail/Clarity/Presence
Conventional wisdom: the CD3000s excel in terms of detail, clarity and presence.

"The Sonys have an amazing clarity that makes horns, trumpets and female vocals sound just fantastic. When I trade back and forth between them, I just can't believe how "muffled" and distant the HD600 sounds. Slightly more midrange "presence" than the somewhat "hollow"-sounding Senns." markl

"They produce an incredible level of detail - much more so than the 325s or 600s. The sound is very very smooth. By contrast, the Grados and Sennheisers sound coarse, grainy and unfocussed. These headphones have an incredible sense of presence and realness of sound. Because they are very fast, clean, tight sounding headphones, I suspect that people who prefer the Beyer 990s, with their warm, somewhat woolly sound, will not like these headphones." Ross B

" The thing that stricks me about the Sonys is the detail in the sound. I noticed right away the how individuals stood out seperate from each other." Danamr

"Everything is so crisp and clear. " Borzy

"RossB hit on something that I love about the 3000's; and that is that when listening to music an ambience pervades that simply draws you in. Listening to jazz funk, blues, etc. one is drawn into a basement club, air thick with the smells of bourbon, and cheap wine, and lovers leaning into one another and occasionally clicking glasses. Simply grand and very provocative!" MusicLover

Treble:
Conventional wisdom: treble is strong, but "clear" and "crisp", "detailed" and "sweet". However, it approaches a line where it might bother some people, and has been noted to promote a slight ringing in the ears.

"There is a LOT more treble energy with the Sonys. In my system with my amp, this sounds clear and smooth, although a touch "sweet" compared to the HD600s I notice my ears ring a little after a long session with the Sonys." markl

"Heavy on the trebble. I know that most other people said that these were more heavy on the bass (which they are heavy on the bass), but i found the trebble in this type of music slightly painful." Borzy


"Neruda: I didn't sell my CD3000's just because of sibilance. In fact, I never said they had signifigant sibilance. I said that they approached a level of sibilance. So why did I sell them? The extended treble didn't seem very realistic to me. It had a sort of ringyness that just didn't cut it at times." ian

" At this point, i've listened mainly to string quartet music through them, and it's hard to imagine them being surpassed for that. Sweetest violin sounds I've heard other than live." (author?)

"Yes there is bright, crisp treble...I didn't find it at a level where I could call it sibilant though. Treble: in a word, bright and snazzy. Not quite blindingly bright like some Grados can be. Tinkling details show up excetionally well. The 3000s no doubt pack quite a bit of detailed treble." Vertigo1

"Sibilance? Sounds like sweet sound to me. " beowulf

"The CD3000's aren't that bright. Grado treble (at least with SR325s and RS-2's that I've owned) is much brighter. The Sony treble is "sweeter" and less fatuiging (no idea how to spell that)." ian

"Being a treble fan, I really enjoyed the 590's brightness and was wondering if the CD3000 would disappoint me there. At first, I missed that brightness and was wondering if the CD3000 had less detail, but now I am sure the detail is there all right, very focused, it's just a bit warmer, but never too dark like some people have accused the HD600 of being. They are very detailed, crisp, but not to the point of excess. " Beowulf

"There is an enormous amount of high frequency energy. As I mentioned, highs are very extended, and perhaps even emphasised to a certain extent" (author?)

Bass
Conventional wisdom: powerful, impacting bass that is deep and possibly resonant sounding.

"Bass is deep (subjectively as deep as the Sennheiser 600s, and more so than the Grados)" RossB

"Most likely due to the larger drivers, the Sonys have much more kick and punch than the 600s. There is more bass information, but I still question if it really goes as low as the 600s. Drums sound awesome (Thump! Thwak!). More realistic than the HD600s for drums." markl

"The CD3000s gave me bass headaches: the HD600s did not." ian

"Bass: In a word, WOW. These headphones exhibit a LOT of bass! This is the part that impressed me the most...the 3000s have an enormously tight, punchy, driving bass line. These would have NO problems whatsoever doing deep bass, and sound awesome with dance music and pop and rap and rock. The bass is also strong enough to invoke headaches if you keep up bassy music for about half an hour. But for everything else, the bass is just perfect...the thump is there, the deepness is there." Vertigo1

Effect of Upstream Components/Sources
Conventional wisdom: due to their revealing nature, these phones must be fed good, clean sound for best results. Mediocre gear/source material need not apply.

"I began listening using the DH Labs cables, but these cables (with their silver content) can have a tendency to be bright and exaggerate the top end. With the DH Labs cables in place, the high frequencies, while incredibly detailed, were so pronounced as to be fatiguing. I replaced the cables with the Kimber selects (all copper), and this stridency in the upper frequencies was immediately reduced to acceptable levels. I would add that both the Meridian 506 and the Maxed Home have a tendency to warmth, particularly in the high frequencies, so other amps or CD players which do sound bright may not be suited to these headphones. If you object to high frequency detail and your associated equipment and cables emphasises high frequencies or sound bright, you may also not like these headphones." RossB

"There was another thread about the importance of source with Sonys high-end phones. I agree. My CDP (a nice Denon DVD player, actually) is very precise, flat and mellow with no digital "hash". It is not a "crispy" metallic sounding machine. Furthermore, the ZOTL is similarly even, clear, and relaxed. I wonder how the Sony's would sound with solid-state? Would the sweet highs be a bit too much? I would take the Sony's out to listen to well-recorded modern discs and recently remastered older CDs. It's not so good with older "brittle"-sounding or poorly recorded discs. It's quite a revealing phone with unmatched palpability. If you're feeding them doo-doo, they're gonna give you the clearest picture of doo-doo you've ever seen. You've just got to hear good, full-range modern recordings on these phones! Pretty amazing." markl

"The CD3000 give a good sense of aliveness, involvement, the reproduction draws the listener in to the musical performance (if sound engineering of the CD was good, that is)." Beowulf

"These cans are incredibly detailed and revealing. I hear things in the background of a recording so much clearer with the Sony's that I am finding new information in recordings I have listened to for years! I believe that these cans will give you the best your current system has to offer, and will reward you for any improvements you make down the road too! They sound to me to offer very flat and extended frequency response, and will easily let you hear the difference between cables and equipment. That is exactly what a quality headphone should do." Budgie

Wrap-Up
I think we now have a pretty good picture of what these cans do well and maybe not so well for some people. I deliberately avoided the issue of "resonances", "ringing", "cavernous sound", and other controversies related to possible artifacts associated with the closed nature of the phones. Opinion seems split as to whether the "reverberations" really exist or not.

I was going to include a section of comments from people that compared the CD3000 to other high-quality phones, but I ran out of time and patience. Suffice to say, many people that have tried CD3000 preferred them over the competing top-of-the-line phones from the usual suspects. If you can swing it, go out and try these phones!

"I am not a crook."
-Richard Nixon

"Why would anyone ever need more than 640K of RAM?"
-Bill Gates

"I did not have sex with that woman."
-Bill Clinton

"It seems to me that later on neither I nor anyone else will be interested in the musings of a thirteen-year-old schoolgirl."
-Anne Frank

"**** MTV! We'll never make a video!"
-Lars Ulrich of Metallica

You see, quoting something does not make that which you quote a true statement. It simply makes it someone else's statement.

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If you won't say it, I will. The CD-3000 is one of the best sounding dynamic headphones I've heard, after the R10. As with any top level headphone, it can be very picky, and not sound its best if it's put into the wrong system. That doesn't mean that either the headphone or system is bad, just that they don't work well together.

Nice review, Sovkiller!

NICE!!!! Have you been under the bonnet yet??

Pictures and component list appreciated!!

Get under that bonnet and upload the innards

Pinkie

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So will I, after hearing the following cans: W2002, W1000, RS-1, HP-1, Senn 600s w/ Equinox, and my cheapo Sony V6s, these are, by far, supoerior sounding, more enjoyable, more comfortable, and I would take a pair of these over anything else any day of the week!! They are just that good. I am totally amazed at the bad press they receive around these parts, especially since the strong opinions expressed are often from a few minute audition in less than ideal circumstances. It seems like those who own them or have extended listening times with them sing their praises. Curious, no??

I'm going to play a little substitution game. In this exercise, ServingEcuador's quote will follow, but I will selectively replace pronouns and references to the CD3000 with something else--my replacements will be in red.

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And the truth remains. People who have the Sony MDR-V600 love them. They think we're crazy when we tell them we don't like them. We form our opinions about the Sony MDR-V600 usually over brief listening sessions because we just don't care for them very much.

They're only opinions after all. I don't like poi or kimchee and knew from the first taste.

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Well, count me out of that first group, Doug. These are among my very favorite dynamic cans (especially with my EMP). I have always raved about these phones and I think others like joelongwood would join the chorus.

I personally feel that the CD-3Ks are right up there among the very best...

I'll chime in to defend these 'phones as well, although you guys seem to be doing a good job without my help. As far as comfort goes, of the 'phones I have, only the MDR-CD1700 surpasses them, because, rather than the pleather pads, the CD1700s have an ultra-soft velour pad.
As far as sound quality goes, the only full-sized 'phones I have that I feel surpasses them is the HP-1, mainly because I perceive it to be more neutral......what goes in, comes out.
I can't wait to get the Impedancer to see how the RKV compares with the Earmax Pro with the CD3000s.

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All I can say about this combo is: Audio bliss. I almost want to hear what you have to say also as I will sound like the lone fanatic raving about them until your review comes in. While I don't ahve other amps on hand to check these cans out with, I will neither buy a new amp or set of cans for years to come.


Kelly,

I understand your comments about these Sony headphones. Although my comments were directed at those who have strong opinions against them by people with little experience with them, if that fits you thats fine. I am entitled to my opinion of the misrepresentation of the headphones as much as you are about the headphones. The knife cuts both ways. Your opinion is noted, but too strongly worded and misworded in my opinion. Far too often we hear people's opinions without knowing their usage history. If someone says, "Therse headphones suck, my Sony V6s are better and have more bass." but don't tell us that they only listened to them thru a PCDP while they had their beloved V6s running off of a headphone amp and great source, their opinion matters about squat in my book. far too often people with little to no experience with using somthing hide behind their reputation as being knowledgable instead of taking the time to listen to the item in question.

Feel free to flame all you want, but I call it like I have seen it. Far too often a decent set of cans/amp/cable/power cord, etc by people without actual time spent with the item in question. I would read much more into what Joe, Rick, Hirsch and others say about these Sony cans, but I stupidly listened to the bad press mistakenly put out about these cans and bought another set before endeing up with them. I shouldn't have listened, but I did. Others reading will do the same without questioning the person's usage history or bias.

Are the Sony CD3k's still available new?

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Yup!

Just do a search on Yahoo Shopping or similar sites.

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Last I heard, yes. Unlike the R10s where they stopped and then started up again. Try eBay if interested. Just watch out for high shipping costs. Mine were $349, but was charged $24 for UPS ground shipping. WOW was that expensive.