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Yarland P-100 - Page 2

post #16 of 136
2/23/07 at 11:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post
Hmmm..I do see your point. So I take it a 6N3 cannot be easily substituted? It looks just like a 6922, but I'm guessing they aren't compatible?

I already took out the EL84's that were in it - they sounded way too bright. I put in some EH EL84's - much better. I'd like to try replacing the 6N3's too, but I guess I can't, eh?
You already listened to it with the standard tubes in it and thought it was to bright and changed the tubes.I don't think that was a good idea.I suggest that you listen to it as is for awhile as I've found nothing wrong with the standard tubes.
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post #17 of 136
2/23/07 at 11:21pm
Well, to be honest, that isn't the reason I changed the tubes. My P100 hums slightly in the left channel. I was hoping that maybe changing the output tubes would help. It didn't. The hum is still there. It's barely noticable, but it is enough to bug me, not because I can hear it when music is playing (I really can't), but because I know it shouldn't be there.

But I did find that the EL84's I put in sounded a little better to me than the stock tubes. Why do you think I should stick with the stock tube?

And anyone have any idea what might be causing the slight hum?
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post #18 of 136
2/23/07 at 11:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post
Well, to be honest, that isn't the reason I changed the tubes. My P100 hums slightly in the left channel. I was hoping that maybe changing the output tubes would help. It didn't. The hum is still there. It's barely noticable, but it is enough to bug me, not because I can hear it when music is playing (I really can't), but because I know it shouldn't be there.

But I did find that the EL84's I put in sounded a little better to me than the stock tubes. Why do you think I should stick with the stock tube?

And anyone have any idea what might be causing the slight hum?
I would definitly put the stock tubes back in or you might void the warranty.The hum I suspect should go away after some use.If not then contact Sound&Vision and they should be able to help you.
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post #19 of 136
2/24/07 at 2:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairbanks View Post
I would definitly put the stock tubes back in or you might void the warranty.The hum I suspect should go away after some use.If not then contact Sound&Vision and they should be able to help you.
A tube amp that doesn't allow direct swaps of tubes without voiding the warranty would probably not make for a very popular product. That said, I have found that my tube amp often hums a bit when I switch tubes. If tubes have been sitting around for a while, they take time to burn in. I would let it go with one set of tubes for a few hours and see if the hum goes away. I also think you might be able to swap the 6n3 with other types (maybe 5760/WE396A/2C51 ), so you should check out tube asylum or some other site to check for differences. (However this might understandably void the warranty unless you check with manufacturer first.) 6922 is definitely not a substitute.
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post #20 of 136
2/24/07 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by izquierdaste View Post
A tube amp that doesn't allow direct swaps of tubes without voiding the warranty would probably not make for a very popular product. That said, I have found that my tube amp often hums a bit when I switch tubes. If tubes have been sitting around for a while, they take time to burn in. I would let it go with one set of tubes for a few hours and see if the hum goes away. I also think you might be able to swap the 6n3 with other types (maybe 5760/WE396A/2C51 ), so you should check out tube asylum or some other site to check for differences. (However this might understandably void the warranty unless you check with manufacturer first.) 6922 is definitely not a substitute.
I totally agree. There should be no issue swapping compatible tubes. It's not as easy on the P100 as it is in my ASL or Singlepower amps, but it was easy enough.

Some use time seems to have eliminated the hum. This is good news. The sound is VERY good. I have ordered some Russian 6N3P tubes that I think will sound better than the cheap Chinese tubes that are in there. But the P100 is a very nice sounding amp. Smooth, even, and inviting. Not quite as tubey as my PPX3 w/ RCA Cleartops, and a little more tubey sounding than my ASL with all Electro-Harmonix tubes in it. But regardless, the Yarland is a very nice amp, and at the price I got if for ($320), an unbelievable bargain!

I will have more detailed comments later. I am thinking about a formal bake off between my 3 tube amps, but I have got to finish my portable amp review first :-/
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post #21 of 136
2/24/07 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post
Hmmm..I do see your point. So I take it a 6N3 cannot be easily substituted? It looks just like a 6922, but I'm guessing they aren't compatible?

I already took out the EL84's that were in it - they sounded way too bright. I put in some EH EL84's - much better. I'd like to try replacing the 6N3's too, but I guess I can't, eh?
No Chinese amp sounds its best using all stock Chinese tubes.

The Chinese 6N3 is not bad and neither is the 6P14 - if matched with non-Chinese tubes.

A Sylvania 6BQ5 might do good as it is rich and can mollify the slight harshness of the Chinese tube - Phillips-Heerlen EL84s would be better - not so rich as the Sylvania but smooth.

Your options are limited with the 6N3 - I think 5670 is a sub - someone correct me if I am wrong. Not many 5670s available.

I suspect the Doge 6210 beats the Yarland in sound quality on the basis of being able to find a better tube combo. The Doge beats or meets anything up to $1200 - based on my experince and based on reports I have received from Doge owners who have owned other amps.

Keep in mind you can't really completely know the true sound of any amp unless you put it in an excellent sytem with excellent headphones, ICs and source. A mediocre amp may sound as good as a great amp in a mediocre system.

Keep in mind that the tubes used in a tube amp are more important than the amp itself - you can make the most expensive tube amp sound bad with the wrong tube combos.

See the thread on the XianSheng 708B in my link below for options in changing the 6N3.
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post #22 of 136
2/24/07 at 1:46pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks Skylab (and Fairbanks) for your impressions. I've been thinking about another tube amp (still love my X-Cans v3, but it IS a hybrid). Dr. Arthur Wells has already given me the lowdown on the Doge and the Yarland seems to be a real find. Skylab, I used to own an ASL and I loved that amp, have no idea why I sold it (hell, yes I do, it's this place). I had those EH tubes in there also. Real tube sound there. I know the ASLs ran into some quality control issues a few years back and that may have hurt their rep, but they are great amps.
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post #23 of 136
2/24/07 at 1:54pm
I have never had a tube amp hum out of the box and then settle down, but it occurs to me that this is the first tube headamp I have ever bought new. Now that the hum issue is gone, I can safely say the Yarland is a fine, fine amp. But I definitely prefer the EH EL84's to the stock Chinese ones.

I was able to order some nice looking NOS Russian 6N3P's on EBay for very little money, so we'll see if that further improves the sound.

The ASL amp certainly sounded MUCH better with all EH tubes than it did with its stock tubes. I took the ASL amp in as part of a trade, not expecting to keep it, and yet I cannot part with it. So it looks like I'm going to have 3 tube amps. Sheesh.
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post #24 of 136
2/24/07 at 2:02pm
Thread Starter 
How does the ASL (and the Yarland for that matter) stack up against the Singlepower? That's the amp I want ultimately, one of these days...
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post #25 of 136
2/24/07 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitary1 View Post
How does the ASL (and the Yarland for that matter) stack up against the Singlepower? That's the amp I want ultimately, one of these days...
My Singlepower is a non-SLAM PPX3. It's a very romantic, lush tube sound, the tubey-est of all the tube amps I have. I know the SLAM is supposed to be more neutral. But I use the PPX3 with the JVC DX1000's, and it's a perfect match. The DX1000's can use a little midrange sweetening, and the PPX3 obliges nicely. The DX1000's also have a very extended treble and very powerful bass, again a good match for the PPX3.

OTOH, I use my 600 ohm Beyer DT880's with the ASL amp, and that's a great combo. It's really so much about the pairing of the amp and headphone. I don't really have amps and headphones, I have SYSTEMS:

Meier Corda Opera > Beyer DT990
Meier HA-2 mkII SE > Darth Beyers
ASL OTL III > Beyer DT880
Singlepower PPX3 > JVC DX1000

So far have listened to the Yarland just with Darth Beyers. That's a good match. Will try some other cans with it too though after it breaks in more.
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post #26 of 136
2/25/07 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by drarthurwells View Post
No Chinese amp sounds its best using all stock Chinese tubes.

The Chinese 6N3 is not bad and neither is the 6P14 - if matched with non-Chinese tubes.

A Sylvania 6BQ5 might do good as it is rich and can mollify the slight harshness of the Chinese tube - Phillips-Heerlen EL84s would be better - not so rich as the Sylvania but smooth.

Your options are limited with the 6N3 - I think 5670 is a sub - someone correct me if I am wrong. Not many 5670s available.

I suspect the Doge 6210 beats the Yarland in sound quality on the basis of being able to find a better tube combo. The Doge beats or meets anything up to $1200 - based on my experince and based on reports I have received from Doge owners who have owned other amps.

Keep in mind you can't really completely know the true sound of any amp unless you put it in an excellent sytem with excellent headphones, ICs and source. A mediocre amp may sound as good as a great amp in a mediocre system.

Keep in mind that the tubes used in a tube amp are more important than the amp itself - you can make the most expensive tube amp sound bad with the wrong tube combos.

See the thread on the XianSheng 708B in my link below for options in changing the 6N3.
With all due resepect Art you havn't heard the Yarland so why judge it.From what I understand your saying that the Doge is better because it's more flexible with other tubes where the Yarland is limited in this respect.Sounds to me like we should buy just one tube amp and just change the tubes from time to time.I'm certainly no tube expert but I know what sounds good and to me the Yarland is a wonderful sounding amp.
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post #27 of 136
2/25/07 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairbanks View Post
With all due resepect Art you havn't heard the Yarland so why judge it.From what I understand your saying that the Doge is better because it's more flexible with other tubes where the Yarland is limited in this respect.Sounds to me like we should buy just one tube amp and just change the tubes from time to time.I'm certainly no tube expert but I know what sounds good and to me the Yarland is a wonderful sounding amp.
The Chinese 6P14 that the Yarland is likely supplied with tends to be harsh and bright. It is useful when combined with a proper input tube but matching to get good sound is difficult.

The Xian Sheng 708B came with the 6N3 input and Chines output tubes and sounds bad with that combo.

I suspect the Yarland with the 6N3 input and Chinese output tubes is bright and harsh also. The 6N3 type tubes are subject to hum and other problems - I hate this tube as it can cause so many problems.

You can become adjusted to bad sound and think it is good. You only realize how bad it was when you hear something better. Then you wonder how you ever thought the previous sound was good to you.

Fairbanks, perhaps you have become adjusted to the bright harsh sound and don't realize how bad it is. Need to try some different tubes - could surprise you.
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post #28 of 136
2/25/07 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by drarthurwells View Post
The Chinese 6P14 that the Yarland is likely supplied with tends to be harsh and bright. It is useful when combined with a proper input tube but matching to get good sound is difficult.

You can become adjusted to bad sound and think it is good. You only realize how bad it was when you hear something better. Then you wonder how you ever thought the previous sound was good to you.

Fairbanks, perhaps you have become adjusted to the bright harsh sound and don't realize how bad it is. Need to try some different tubes - could surprise you.
Or perhaps Fairbanks has his own ears and tastes Still generalizing to push your own amp I see Fairbanks is basing his opinion of his amp on music that he likes and what he's heard. Not by comparing it to what some feel are superior based on their own tastes. Fairbanks statement still stands that you haven't heard the Yarland, so any opinion you have is theory based. The main theory being that it doesn't use the same tube as your Doge so that it has to be inferior. Tubes do have a certain sonic character, but the base amp does too: if a 6P14 sounds too bright on your amp, it doesn't mean it's going to be too bright on other amps.

@Solitary1: I haven't listened to any of the Chinese amps in question, but do really like my Single Power SLAM. It's relatively tonally neutral with plenty of dynamics: SLAM is a good term for it. Seems to have good synergy with Grados and Senns. The tonality is comparable to the Xcan and a Darkvoice 336i I've heard: just offering more soundstage and dynamics.
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post #29 of 136
2/25/07 at 3:30pm
The Yarland does not come with a 6P14, not sure where you got that. It comes with a 6N3. And I did find the stock chinese EL84's bright, the russian EH output tubes are much smoother. I hope the russian 6N3P I ordered will also be smoother.
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post #30 of 136
2/25/07 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by drarthurwells View Post
No Chinese amp sounds its best using all stock Chinese tubes.

The Chinese 6N3 is not bad and neither is the 6P14 - if matched with non-Chinese tubes.

A Sylvania 6BQ5 might do good as it is rich and can mollify the slight harshness of the Chinese tube - Phillips-Heerlen EL84s would be better - not so rich as the Sylvania but smooth.

Your options are limited with the 6N3 - I think 5670 is a sub - someone correct me if I am wrong. Not many 5670s available.

I suspect the Doge 6210 beats the Yarland in sound quality on the basis of being able to find a better tube combo.

Keep in mind that the tubes used in a tube amp are more important than the amp itself - you can make the most expensive tube amp sound bad with the wrong tube combos.

.


There are LOTS of options for the 5670 tube. All the major tube manufacturers made them .... Tung Sol, Sylvania, RCA, GE and Raytheon. The Western Electric 396a is another popular option and several manufacturers made 2c51's including Bendix, Tung Sol, Sylvania and some European manufacturers like Edison Electric. The Tung Sol 2c51 is a fabulous sounding tube and better than any 12ax7 I have ever heard .... and the Tung Sol 5670 sounds equally good. The 5670 is a very high quality tube that is generally less expensive than the nos 12ax7's. I am using 2c51's in my Singlepower Extremes and the tube is easily my favorite gain tube in these amps.

I believe one should be able to easily find a tube combo that would atleast equal if not exceed the tube combinations available in the Doge amp. The 5670/2c51 is one of the very best sounding tubes I have used and both amps use the same EL 84/ 6BQ5 output tubes.

While I agree poor quality tubes can make even an excellent amp sound wrong. The circuit is still just as critical if not more so .... IMO. Good tubes are not going to make a bad circuit design sound good.



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