R10 vs Qualia vs L3000 vs HP2 vs DX1000 Review - Determining my "King" of dynamics
Sep 12, 2006 at 11:28 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 88
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Thanks to a very generous ayt999 (Alex), I've been able to compare three new headphones in my system: the Sony R10, Sony Qualia 010, and JVC DX1000, in addition to the L3000, W2002, W11jpn, and HP2 I already owned. Certainly, given a chance to sample all the greatest dynamic headphones, any veteran head-fi'er with their wits about them would be able to crown one set their personal "king" of headphones, right? Not so fast
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I have to admit there is no one headphone that reigns supreme in *every* application, every genre of music for me. How depressing...

[size=medium]Photos[/size]

All the headphones together:
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R10:
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Some of the music used:
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[size=medium]System[/size]
Main rig:
Sony SCD-1 SACD/CD Player
HGA Silver Lace RCA interconnects
Singlepower SDS (old chassis), 1x TungSol roundplate 6sn7, 2x TungSol 5687 D-getter tubes in Singlepower SLAM adaptors.

Computer rig:
ESI Juli@ soundcard
Outlaw PCA interconnects
Sugden Headmaster

[size=medium]Impressions[/size]

Sony MDR-R10:
I declare these headphones The King of Headphones for classical music. Also, I declare them King of vocals, King of detail, and King of midrange, for that matter. With so many strengths it's no wonder this set is the most frequently tagged as "The King". Truly, they are very special with music that plays into these strengths. I'm not much of a classical fan; hell I've hardly listened to any of it in the last few years. The R10 redefines the genre for me. I have no doubt that were I to own the R10, I would swiftly become a full-blown classical fan. The Amadeus Soundtrack SACD w/ R10 combo regularly gave me the chills. They render music with a concert hall ambiance nothing else can match. Midrange tonality is also unmatched and utterly perfect in its naturality. It's not cold, not warm, not even neutral - just natural. Imaging is so precise that vocalists materialize inside your head and their singing is literally palpable. Did I mention detail? You can have a full-scale orchestra playing full blast, and each instrument is rendered as if it's the only thing playing. Perfect. Unfortunately, they're still not the perfect headphone for me. I don't like the R10 with rock, or pop music. See, the R10's have treble energy. LOTS of it. They also are lacking in bass quantity compared to...L3000, Qualis, DX1000, HP2...basically *everything* I have on hand. Somehow this works great with classical, or with slower paced, well-recorded, vocal heavy stuff like Patricia Barber. It doesn't work with rock. Listening to Rush (Presto, Fly By Night, Hold Your Fire) and Jethro Tull CDs (Songs From The Wood, Broadsword and the Beast, Stand Up) was bordering on painful. One of my favorite J-Pop/anime soundtrack CDs (Marmalade Boy Soundtrack) didn't fare any better. They did significantly better with rock when balanced out of an upgraded SDS-XLR, but still not as well as I'd hoped. I would love to own these headphones in the future (sooner the better
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) just for their merits on classical & vocals, but they cost a fortune, supply is scarce, and I'd still need to use the L3000 for rock.

Audio-Technica L3000
King of Rock! Still my undisputed king of rock. King of bass. The L3000 is a headphone with phenomenal muscle, slam, guts, and bass impact. The sheer sense of power and emotion conveyed kills any other headphone. If Grados reproduce guitars well, then the L3000 IS the guitar. How did they fit all those different guitars and tube amps inside those leather cups?
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Resolution not quite up to the levels of R10 and Qualia, but I’d say still better than any other dynamic. An excellent all-genre headphone; it sounds a bit like what I’d expect if the HD650 were bumped up a couple of levels, with additional tweaks favoring the rock genre (intimate small/medium room sized soundstage, etc.). It does have a bit of a warm coloration to the midrange. Midrange and bass are quite forward compared to the treble.

Sony Qualia 010:
The Qualia is...um...king of enigmas? Seriously, I really do like the Qualias quite a bit, just sometimes I can't fully figure out why
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Let's see - I guess for now I can declare them King of acoustic guitar. Hmm, probably King of microdynamics. They're also in 2nd place just behind the R10s in overall detail retrieval, in the classical genre, and in reproduction of metal percussion. Not too bad with most rock, despite the high detail and abundance of treble energy; the excellent speed and significant amounts of bass may be its saving graces here. The Qualias are a headphone that is diabolically dependant on a precision fit. The first time you put them on, there is a high chance that pair will not fit you well. Then, there's some chance you'll be able to adjust that pair (via a small screwdriver) to fit you. Assuming you end up with a pair that fits you, there's a good chance you'll botch the positioning on the first several tries. Wait, remember you have to get a good seal too...oops, watch out for the cheekbone - that'll throw things totally out of whack. So far, my optimal position (roughly) is with the lower earlobe tucked under the lower lip of the leather pad and my back ear flap under the back lip of the pad (forward, and up on the head). I did need some extra padding between my head and the headband (Medium size) to secure this positioning
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First time I plopped these on, I though they were the worst headphone I'd tried in recent memory. It was the most hollow, echo-ish, cavernous sound I'd heard in years. After feeling out the fit, my opinion improved rapidly. OK, even once you get the fit right, some of that hollow cavernous sound will likely linger. The tonality is not perfect, which is surprising since the previous R10's got it perfect. Still, given a chance, the brain seems to be able to adapt for this. Unlike, say, boomy bass, smeared transients, or lack of detail - the brain largely cannot adapt for these flaws, which fortunately the Qualia is completely free from. Perhaps the designers chose to focus on aspects of sound quality that the human/ear interface could not easily adapt for. It's like watching a high end HDTV with a slight blue color cast vs. watching a standard def TV that's properly calibrated - the eye will adapt to the blue cast such the display's blue-ish whites eventually look pure white. However, you'll never be able to make up for the lack of detail on the other TV.

After a while I found the Qualias were able to just disappear on certain songs/albums. For me, the Qualias really shone on Kenny Loggin's Back to Pooh Corner song (heh) and Neil Young's Greatest Hits. Serious disappearing factor on these. Spine chills, too. They also did extremely well with Diana Krall , Mary Chapin Carpenter, and also the little j-pop/anime I tried.

The speed of these headphones significantly improves with an aftermarket cable. Either the Moon Audio Black Dragon or Alex's own Wyvern Audio Qualia cable will put these cans where they should be. Both Alex and I agree the quality difference from cable rolling is more profound on the Qualias than with the HD650.

Despite the oddities, I liked what I heard from the Qualias enough to buy my own pair (w/ black dragon cable). Finding a great deal really helped in pulling the trigger. Mine have red pads. Alex's are blue. As far as I can tell, the pad color causes no difference in sound quality.
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I'll probably also purchase the Wyvern Audio cable in the near future.

JVC HP-DX1000
These are King of...mp3's on the computer
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The ESI Julia@ and Sugden Headmaster round out the mp3 system. I don't mean to disrespect this headphone - like the Qualias, I liked the DX1000 enough that I now own it (I have little self control
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). In fact I'm quite fascinated how the JVC acts like a respectable high end $1000+ level headphone in a proper audiophile system, yet it also doesn't slap me on the face and remind me that I'm listening to mp3's on a computer system when placed in that environment. Overall, a warm lush headphone signature like what I typically prefer. Just enough treble energy to sparkle and shimmer where necessary; not enough to cause listening fatigue. Mids are smooth, warm, and lush, but still quite snappy! Bass is a bit - voluptuous - but not out of control – the result can be lovely. I love how the extra bass on the JVC fills in some of the bass typically missing/attenuated in the computer rig. Detail, impact, smoothness - all that good stuff - is right about where it should be for a $800 headphone, IMO. Pop it in the SDS/SCD-1 rig and it’s just right below the R10/Qualia/L3000 in the 2nd tier of dynamic headphones. I’d place it on about the same level of the HP1000 in overall musical enjoyment. At least sonically, I’d gladly trade in my W11jpn or W2002 for the JVC. IMO this should easily be the best headphone in current production (I don’t like the Omega II).

Grado HP-2 w/ JGUWBWRC
Sadly, I doubt I can consider these the king of anything. King of neutrality? How can one tell what’s really neutral with recorded music? The R10 sounds tonally more natural in the midrange. Still, the HP2s are very nice sounding headphones. Of bass, mids, and highs - mids are the most pronounced of the three here. Tonally, the midrange is a bit on the cool (think cool, clear water) side. Contrast that to the warmish mids on the L3000, HD650, DX1000, etc. Bass is extremely tight and snappy, just behind the Qualias in this area. Quantity wise, the bass is plentiful, just not as much as the L3000 and still a bit behind the HP2 mids. Treble is non-fatiguing, a bit subdued but can sparkle (joining the L3000, HD650, DX1000 in this trait), which is how I like it for most music. Among the most grainless of dynamics – though once again the R10 has it beat. IMO these lag behind the R10/Qualia/L3000 in resolution and ability to keep up with complex music – individual notes get a bit smeared. Overall a very, very nice sounding headphone that works well with all genres. I must admit they’re probably the best I’ve heard with DVD movies, however I’ve yet to try the R10/Qualia/L3000 in this application (seems almost wrong to do so). The forward, crisp mids make movie dialogue a joy to listen to – their musicality is also very flattering to musical scores/soundtracks. Flat pads are the only way to fly here, IMO.

[size=medium]EDIT:[/size] Added a few more impressions on my new R10 here: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showp...9&postcount=41
 
Sep 12, 2006 at 11:52 PM Post #3 of 88
Enjoyable review.

You know you will have to get a R10 now no matter what else you have. You are simply not complete otherwise. So when is everything else going on sale?
 
Sep 13, 2006 at 12:16 AM Post #4 of 88
Hey, you forgot the PS-1 and K 1000!
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Naw, seriously, cool review. I'm glad you've had a chance to have extended trials with each of these. I can see how you've come to the conclusions you have.

It's the curse man. Even if you have one or two big favorites, it's still too tempting to own so many more for other flavors.

Be glad you're only doing this with dynamics... if you're ever tempted by electrostats or IEM (sigh, I had to pick up an E500 today...) give me a shout.

Best,

-Jason

PS: Oh man, is that a Black Dragon I spot on your 010? No wonder you think the R10 is more detailed...
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Sep 13, 2006 at 12:17 AM Post #5 of 88
Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser
Enjoyable review.

You know you will have to get a R10 now no matter what else you have. You are simply not complete otherwise. So when is everything else going on sale?



Wise man here, folks
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When/if I find an R10 for a reasonable price from a reputable seller, then the likes of the HP2/W2002/W11jpn/K340/microZOTL would probably be making an appearance in the FS forum. I wouldn't sacrifice the L3000 or Qualia, probably not even the DX1000.
 
Sep 13, 2006 at 12:19 AM Post #6 of 88
Very nice Mike! Did you get rid of your Meridian already?
 
Sep 13, 2006 at 12:21 AM Post #7 of 88
Quote:

Originally Posted by mulveling
Wise man here, folks
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When/if I find an R10 for a reasonable price from a reputable seller, then the likes of the HP2/W2002/W11jpn/K340/microZOTL would probably be making an appearance in the FS forum. I wouldn't sacrifice the L3000 or Qualia, probably not even the DX1000.



The DX1000 is an interesting beast, isn't it? I wouldn't say I'd own one over the L3k or W5000 or R10... but it does something interesting with imaging, and is surprisingly nimble at the top end. Lots of bass though. I think it's a great first shot by JVC, though I'm looking forward to the son or grandson of the DX1000...

Best,

-Jason
 
Sep 13, 2006 at 12:32 AM Post #8 of 88
Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hankins
Very nice Mike! Did you get rid of your Meridian already?


Thanks Tom! Yep, the G08 is already with its new owner. I really liked its redbook, but I'd rather have extra cash for headphones
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Plus, the SCD-1 with SACDs sounds better, as you know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjcha
Hey, you forgot the PS-1 and K 1000!


Yep, still haven't heard the PS-1. That and the Ultrasone Edition 7 are most needed before I can consider myself a true scholar in the ways of dynamics
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I've owned the K1000 but it was a bit too dry for my tastes. However I've only spent a total of about 2 minutes on the K1000 with what's considered a synergistic amp (RKV), so I'm not sure what it's really capable of.

Quote:

The DX1000 is an interesting beast, isn't it? I wouldn't say I'd own one over the L3k or W5000 or R10... but it does something interesting with imaging, and is surprisingly nimble at the top end. Lots of bass though. I think it's a great first shot by JVC, though I'm looking forward to the son or grandson of the DX1000...


Yes, I was pleasantly surprised with the DX1000 once I got the initial shock of R10 + Patricia Barber SACDs out of my system. It's a very worthwhile headphone to own and I hope more head-fi members will be convinced to give them a shot.
 
Sep 13, 2006 at 12:32 AM Post #9 of 88
I really enjoyed reading your review, and I concur with your comments regarding the R10. Here's my unique experience with the R10. It didn't really sound very special with the several amps that I first used to drive it. The R10 was also disappointing when driven with my first version of a Supra SDS; i.e., the R10 sounded substantially inferior to my HE90. But then Mikhail did his magic by further upgrading my SDS, and the R10's sound improved dramatically. It is now everything that I could hope for from my single ended (as apposed to balanced) system. The R10's wonderful potential only becomes clear when it's driven by an optimal amp.
 
Sep 13, 2006 at 12:52 AM Post #10 of 88
nice review! but the best part is since you have them all in your house, you don't have to do a A/B insta-comparo. pick one can, listen to it for a week, write impressions, etc. then put it down, pick up another, ignore the drastic change in signature, let your ears get used to them, then listen for another week, write down opinions, etc.

lemme tell ya, if you're coming from a Sony product - doesn't matter if it's an R10 or a Qualia - the HP1000 is going to sound dull and muddy and CRAP. I found this out at the Qualia minimeet a long time ago - I was like, what gives?

But you know what? Let your ears get used to them, and the HP1000 make everything sound Real. Don't listen for anything in particular, just put em on your head and enjoy for a week, then see. Sony products have more "wow" factor than Joe Grados do since they are so lively up in the highs, but eventually you'll hear that they all have their own merits.

BTW tho, I agree that the R10 is the king of dynamic cans. Qualia, I just can't get used to them. I like the bass of the L3K too, but overall it has a dark nature I just can't live with. Similar to how the Omega II is a dark can compared to the Lambda Pro - not murky, just Dark.

Edit- don't forget, since you own the HP2, you have to factor in the "I'm bored with what I know" factor and the "whee new toys" factor. That's why I listen to one of my cans for a long time before switching to another - it helps stave off the "familiarity breeds contempt" syndrome.
 
Sep 13, 2006 at 1:02 AM Post #11 of 88
Great review! It seems like the more expensive... the more better
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Sep 13, 2006 at 1:22 AM Post #12 of 88
Quote:

Originally Posted by mulveling
Yep, still haven't heard the PS-1. That and the Ultrasone Edition 7 are most needed before I can consider myself a true scholar in the ways of dynamics
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I've owned the K1000 but it was a bit too dry for my tastes. However I've only spent a total of about 2 minutes on the K1000 with what's considered a synergistic amp (RKV), so I'm not sure what it's really capable of.



You have heard enough to be consider a true scholar believe me, the rest you are missing will not stand in front of the R-10, not a chance...Even, IMO, the ones you have there, are not in that same league neither...honestly...to me the R-10 are simply special heapdhones...
 
Sep 13, 2006 at 1:36 AM Post #13 of 88
did you get that pair of JVCs from Alex? if so, i got the chance to hear that pair for an extended amount of time and i agree they are nice. not in the same league as the rest of the phones being discussed, though. i haven't heard the Qualias, so i can't comment on them, but i find the R-10 to be highly amp dependent. the only amp i've heard them on where i really, really liked the sound was with the Cary 300SEI. that combo is magical in how real it sounds. the 300SEI also breathes a lot of life into the bass. i imagine your SDS with 5687s does something similar.

the L3000 are a great pair of phones. i would love to own a pair. they are the only other phones besides the HP-1000s that i've heard that get the tonality just right. i think they, like the R-10s, need an amp with a lot of balls to get the balance right, though it's kind of the opposite of the R-10, as the L3000s need plenty of current bring the treble out. otherwise i can see why some people have described them as being somewhat dark. the 5687 output tube in a Singlepower amp is a great choice for that.

jahn probably is right about familiarity breeding contempt, as i think that HP-1000 very easily fits into the same league as the R-10 and the L3000. to my ear, there are things that the HP-1000 can do that no other dynamic phones i've heard can do. once your brain clicks in with them the gear just disappears and only the music is left. i love it. i also love that bass snap, so i really want to hear the Qualias now if the bass really is even snappier. i definitely agree that the HP-2s rule for movies
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the PS-1 is in that same league as the R-10, L3000 and Joe Grados, though i prefer the HP-1000. to my ear, the PS-1 isn't neutral enough to have that HP-1000 magic and isn't colored enough to have the RS-1 magic. for people it works for, however, the PS-1 really works. i suggest trying to borrow a pair. nice write up, btw
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Sep 13, 2006 at 2:07 AM Post #14 of 88
What a show off....
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Na seriously though; nice review, and to be honest I seen you around and your defiantly first page in my book of credibility.
So, I have to ask.. Have you owned or heard a burnt pair of 701's. If so how they compare to the L3000's?
Getting those dam upgradies even though I'm in bliss with my 701's.. Actually it’s this bliss that’s inspiring me to find something even better. Your opinion would be greatly appreciated.

ALSO,

You go boy ("snap" "snaP") disss thosse Gradoss!
 
Sep 13, 2006 at 4:50 AM Post #15 of 88
Do you happen to know if the R10s in question are a new production model (serial number higher than 1000) or an older one? The newer ones supposedly have a bit more bass than the older models.
 

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