[tagosaku]

I would really appreciate if someone can generalize how 6SN7, 12xx7, 6922, 2C51 compares

 

[Rob N]

Anyone got any Mullard sounding ECC88 alternatives?

 

[Frihed89]

These tubes are rated at 450 volts. They can be run at high power?

They also have a mu of 41, quite a bit higher than the 6SN7GTs. Do they make decent input tubes?

 

[Amarok]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob N /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyone got any Mullard sounding ECC88 alternatives?

Alternative as in another 6922/ECC88 type number?
I have 2 Mullard CV2492s/E88CC which sound quite Mullard-ious (the spell checker actually suggested melodious.) $89.95ea @ tubedepot.com (just now checked and it's OOS for now) (This is probably nothing new to most here, but I was wondering about the difference between the ECCnn and EnnCC tubes. I found one place that stated that the EnnCC types are "premium" versions of the tube. But now I wonder if they really meant something more like the differences between an XYZT and an XYXT GTA, GTB, etc. Anyone know the real scoop?)

Or this:
Current production JJ 6922s ($9.95ea) sounded surprisingly (and
embarrassingly for Mullard perhaps), close to the Mullards. In my amp. With
my other gear. To my ears. In my office. With my music. On the days I
listened. BP 120/80. pulse 122 (tachy). Froot Loops for breakfast. Moon:
waxing gibbous. YMMV. (caveat listenor

Or am I, perhaps, missing your point?

[Just kidding on those caveats youse guys. I know there really are tons of real variables. But sometimes it almost feels that way. One thing I read years ago was about a guy who got significantly better sound past 7pm or so because of the effect local businesses had on his power. SPs, tho, essentially come with built in power conditioning. In FL, I had a 10 gauge line run from my breaker box to my stereo. Best sub $200 tweak I ever made.]

The Mullards're in my XCANv3 at work, but someday I plan to get an ECC2
adapter and try one out as a gain tube. I'm also curious as to whether they might work well as outputs. But I've burned a pretty good chunk'o'change on the MPX3 already, so things like extra adapters'll have to wait until all of my other TR options have run out.

-=A=-

 

[budx3385]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob N /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyone got any Mullard sounding ECC88 alternatives?

I've never heard any Mullard tubes, Rob. Do they have a particularly pleasing sound? If so, why are you looking for alternatives?

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amarok /img/forum/go_quote.gif (This is probably nothing new to most here, but I was wondering about the difference between the ECCnn and EnnCC tubes. I found one place that stated that the EnnCC types are "premium" versions of the tube. But now I wonder if they really meant something more like the differences between an XYZT and an XYXT GTA, GTB, etc. Anyone know the real scoop?)

ECC88= 6DJ8
E88CC= 6922 (longer life, higher current capability)
E188CC= 7308 (premium 6922)

 

[Amarok]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tagosaku /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would really appreciate if someone can generalize how 6SN7, 12xx7, 6922, 2C51 compares

Too bad there isn't a searchable database, or WIKI, of different users' perceptions of the various tube sounds

But that would only help a little anyway, since that would be filled with (mostly?) characteristics of tubes under various conditions and in various combinations of other tubes and equipment. Although some people might find it useful to make comparisons. Things akin to: "If you like Elvis, Zeppelin, Reggae, and have a sense of humor, then you may like Dread Zeppelin. Or if you appreciate Stravinsky and Holst then you may be a little miffed at the excessive "inpiration" John Williams seems to take from them.

But here's something simple to try: First, determine the qualitative features about tubes in which you are interested. Here are a few dimensions in the feature space to get you started: Air, imaging, SLAM (who would classify a tube based on that quality?!

), sound stage, imaging. Then determine the parameters that can help you identify a tube with your desired subset of features, e.g. type/manufacturer/plate-shape/plate-color/year-of-manufacture/country-of-manufacture/etc.

After choosing the features and parameters, it should be trivial to write a natural language parser (with the addition of domain specific Audio jargon of course) to extract the features of interest from all of the posts. Fortunaetly, most people hear spell good so this should work swell. Then use the parsed features along with the associated parameters to train up a petri or neural net, toss in a natural language query system, give it a nice cup of really HOT tea, and bada bing, voila, tada, bada boom, you're set. The implementation, as with other hard stuff, is left as an exercise

Then write a query on the tubes of interest (q.v.). You can then examine the parameters of the resulting matches. This will help in making future purchasing decisions. Also, posting the resulting summary will help your fellow aficionados. And, after all, isn't helping what this thread is really all about?

You can also make runs excluding things like the ultra rare 1964 Stangelove Industries 6SN7 OPE/POE which is nigh impossible to find, due to, amongst other things, the Unobtanium235 used in its cathode and its subsequent roundup by the US military after the cold war. See the article in The National Tube Enquirer: Help! MIBs stold my stareo!
I mean, like, DUH! Everyone knows OPiEs are the best, but why show them if I. Can't. GET. THEM!

But I kid

(Too much cough medicine, I guess.

)

I've just dipped my toe into the vacuum, as it were.
I intend to work on this until my head is chock full of vacuum


tube information.

Heck, I don't even know what a 12xx7 is. Off to google!

-A-

 

[tagosaku]

sorry 12xx7 meaing the ones you can use with ECC 1 adaptor. 12AU7, 12AT7, 12AX7 etc.

I can't even comprehend the comparison between 12AV7 and 12AZ7. Within 12AV7 there is a variation and same goes with 12AZ7. There are more brands I like with 12AZ7 than 12AV7. At the same time, I can not tell the difference between Raytheon 12AV7 and 12AZ7 - both looks and sound

 

[budx3385]

Well, the 2c51 adapter and a TS tube arrived today from SP. Immediately, I saw why folks have spoken highly of this tube. It is as if someone took Windex to the soundstage, and everything is cleaner, clearer. It didn't take long, however - only three test tracks - until I was sure that the sound was also brighter - tilted up toward the high end. Most important for me, the emotion was missing. Jennifer Warnes singing about Leonard Cohen's Famous Blue Raincoat can almost bring tears every time with the (much more expensive) 6922 or 7308 driver - but not with this tube.

IMHO, of course.

A WE 396 version is on the way - it's supposed to be darker, warmer. I hope so. Clear and clean, but with good tonal balance - that could definitely float my boat !!!

 

[Rob N]

Quote:

Originally Posted by budx3385 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, the 2c51 adapter and a TS tube arrived today from SP. Immediately, I saw why folks have spoken highly of this tube. It is as if someone took Windex to the soundstage, and everything is cleaner, clearer. It didn't take long, however - only three test tracks - until I was sure that the sound was also brighter - tilted up toward the high end. Most important for me, the emotion was missing. Jennifer Warnes singing about Leonard Cohen's Famous Blue Raincoat can almost bring tears every time with the (much more expensive) 6922 or 7308 driver - but not with this tube. IMHO, of course. A WE 396 version is on the way - it's supposed to be darker, warmer. I hope so. Clear and clean, but with good tonal balance - that could definitely float my boat !!!

I actually think the TS 2c51 is warmer soundeing than the WE396A

The RCA 5670 triple mica is also on the warm side

 

[budx3385]

thanks, Rob - I'll look for that RCA tube - that's the first I've seen anyone mention it !

 

[Amarok]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tagosaku /img/forum/go_quote.gif sorry 12xx7 meaing the ones you can use with ECC 1 adaptor. 12AU7, 12AT7, 12AX7 etc. I can't even comprehend the comparison between 12AV7 and 12AZ7. Within 12AV7 there is a variation and same goes with 12AZ7. There are more brands I like with 12AZ7 than 12AV7. At the same time, I can not tell the difference between Raytheon 12AV7 and 12AZ7 - both looks and sound

I'd consider that a blessing. If you find both of those tubes sound the same
(hopefully that sound is good for you) then you have up to 2x more NOS tube
supply available. And if one is cheaper than the others, so much the
better.

I hope I can find something(s) like that.
I love my 6414 + 2x6BL7. I have some 6BX7s coming TODAY! and hopefully they
will sound as good or better than the BLs. I read that the BX is more linear
than the BL, so I'll see if that translates to better sound. I hope so. I
haven't read much about the BX.

-=A=-

 

[augustwest]

“I hope I can find something(s) like that.
I love my 6414 + 2x6BL7. I have some 6BX7s coming TODAY! and hopefully they
will sound as good or better than the BLs. I read that the BX is more linear
than the BL, so I'll see if that translates to better sound. I hope so. I
haven't read much about the BX.”

The “BX’s” seem to be more neutral if that is what you are seeking. Some like them. Personally, I found they had very little personality and I ultimately found them to be boring. . . . . But as I have said others seem to like them. It just goes to show one tube set is not for everyone. However, like you I like the 6416 quite a bit.

- augustwest

 

[Amarok]

Two and 1/2 questions

1) Is it safe to use 2 different tubes of the same type but with different
ratings In the output section? e.g. a 12SN7GT and a 12SN7GTA ?
1a) Does the middle tube handle the left channel? It is more leftward
from the front.

2) Is there anything that can be used to safely write on a tube? I have some
where there is almost nothing left of the original writing. Easier for
octals , but the base can still get hot. But for nonals, writing on
the glass seems like to require something special.

thanks all,

-=A=-

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amarok /img/forum/go_quote.gif Two and 1/2 questions 1) Is it safe to use 2 different tubes of the same type but with different ratings In the output section? e.g. a 12SN7GT and a 12SN7GTA ? 1a) Does the middle tube handle the left channel? It is more leftward from the front. 2) Is there anything that can be used to safely write on a tube? I have some where there is almost nothing left of the original writing. Easier for octals , but the base can still get hot. But for nonals, writing on the glass seems like to require something special. thanks all, -=A=-

1) Safe yes .... but the sound will be different in each channel as these tubes not only have different ratings but a different sound. A Sylvania 12sn7gt will not sound like a Sylvania 12sn7gta.

2) I have both the new an old SP versions and I sometimes forget. But I am fairly certain the middle tube is the left channel.

3) Use a sticky label and put the tube name on the label. I have these labels on some of my tube socket adapters and this works fine. See the labels on the front two tubes in the pic below ....