Hi

When I compare the following:

X-Fi Elite Pro – Analogue out (Quenex J2P) – Sugden Headmaster – K701 or HD650
to
X-Fi Elite Pro – Digital Out – Benchmark DAC1 (revised edition) – Audio Note AN-A cable - Sugden Headmaster – K701 or HD650

then I cannot hear any difference. The Sugden has 3 inputs, so I can switch between the 2 options above and A/B them. No matter what I listen to, there is no difference at all.

Now, according to a number of posts I’ve read here at Head-Fi, the Benchmark (although fallen somewhat out of favour in these parts) should be a significant upgrade to a lowly soundcard as the X-Fi (comparable to unmodded 1212M I think).

Both the X-Fi and the Benchmark, as well as the K701/HD650 are well broken in (if that should make a difference).

Haven’t made any comparisons with my speakers (BW 801 first generation), as I almost never listen to them any more.

Any takers as to why I can’t hear a difference, whilst I should according to “conventional wisdom”:

1.My hearing is not sensitive enough to hear the differences, YMMV as they say.
2.Conventional wisdom at Head-Fi isn’t wisdom, it’s dogma, differences between sources are very small, if there are any.
3.The Sugden is not a good enough amp to show the differences.
4.My interconnects are not good enough, they mask any difference there might be.
5.Anything else.


Excuse any spelling errors, English is not my native language.

Regards

Try making comparisons with the speaker then

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Differences between sources are somewhat hard to spot at first =P

And by the way, for someone who does not speak english natively, your english is very very good.

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I'm voting for number 2.

What type of files are you using?

Mostly lossless - APE (EAC)

I'm all for #2 (congrats! now you can save yourself a lot of money!) but you should also consider #3 and just run the sources unamped to see if differences improve. However, any differences you do find in that case may be due to headphone drive issues that would never show up with an amp and therefore may not be an issue. It's complicated.

I am going for #2 as well. *Not* because I find the source unimportant. I consider the source as important as the can, at least at the lower system range. Going from onboard to Elite Pro the second most significant upgrade I made to my system (the most significant was when i went from earbud to Porta Pro). But I also suspect that you are already getting a lot of quality from those EMU class card, and diminishing returns will hit hard afterward. Mind ya, that's only what I am suspecting. I'll still be upgrading my source at some point, although you just made me even more patient now

As you start moving up the "food-chain" differences, can be very subtle.

Do these newer versions of the DAC1 still benefit from some of the tweaks of "yester-year"? Floating ground pin on power cable, tweaking the XLR-RCA adapter (if using), etc.?

I had a similar experience where I couldn't hear any difference doing from an EMU 1212m to the Zhaolu DAC 1.3 (stock). Going to cheaper sources though, I can easily hear differences. I need to hear more high end sources to be sure, but I think that beyond a certain point, differences may be small to non-existent.

to utep10: wouldn't know

about sources:

I've upgraded from an Audigy1 to Audigy2 to Audigy4 to X-Fi Elite Pro. I *thought* I heard a difference (of the good kind) between all of these. Couldn't A/B them though, so a lot of it could be placebo. Biggest upgrade between the Audigy 2 an 4, because of better DAC's I suppose and discovery of resampling in Foobar.

I suspect, also from your responses that the Elite Pro for a lot (most?) people is as good as it needs to get.

I'm not a real audiophile, but as stated above, I can hear, and do appreciate differences between sources up to a certain point.

Thanks for your responses.

Two sources with very similar sound signatures can be very difficult to distinguish on midfi headphone systems. Between the 0404 and my Bel Canto DAC2 with the K1000 the differences are subtle but there.

In my opinion, you should be able to spot some differences, they might not be extreme or you might discover that you like the x-fi more then the DAC1 but there should be differences. Here are my "guesses" based on recent experience with an Audigy 2zs and a HagUSB.

1- First, make sure your x-fi is well configured and that it is not upsampling or playing with the bits before sending on the digital out (like volume control needs to be at max, output needs to be at 16-bit/44.1kHz, etc...)

2- Are you using an optical digital out? If so try with a coax. My Audigy was giving me crappy results with an optical out, when I switched to the HagUSB and a coax digital out, things improved dramatically.

3- Try your headphone directly out of the DAC1 versus out of the Sugden. If it's better out of DAC1 then your analog interconnect cable is crap. The analog interconnect is an extremely important cable, much more then the digital.

If you don't mind, I'd like to know what happens when you try it, for my personal knowledge.

Have fun!

Interesting thread, I have a friend who raves about the dacs in the elite pro, and I have one myself. I'm watching this thread, will be interesting to see if the elite pro really isn't that bad. Not many people here have it.

1 - I run the X-Fi bitperfect Audio Creation Mode 16/44.1, no hanky panky in Foobar (also 16/44,1 with no DSP used, kernel streaming)

2 - I use Coax

3 - What good will that do? I tried the headphone out of the DAC1 and found it thin/metallic (exaggerated of course, but you get my drift). There's clearly a difference between the DAC1 amp and the Sugden, the question is if the DAC section makes any audible difference.