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post #4201 of 7544
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfetan44 View Post
 

Anybody happen to know what size the Fostex T50RP driver is?

 

For Grado cups?  Or, for other reasons?  Might want to direct the post to the T50RP thread where more knowledge in that area is present.

post #4202 of 7544
Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfetan44 View Post
 

Anybody happen to know what size the Fostex T50RP driver is?

 

For Grado cups?  Or, for other reasons?  Might want to direct the post to the T50RP thread where more knowledge in that area is present.

Ah, okay. For Grado cups, never know how it might sound ;). Probably not good though haha.

post #4203 of 7544
From what I recall of my brief Fostex experience (been thinking of trying again actually), the drivers are too big for a standard Grado cup. You might have some luck if you get someone to turn you a larger version of the standard Grado woody.

Wayne, good to see your impressions on the KSC75 in the Paduak...am I correct in assuming the cups you are using are the ones I sold you? They spent some time with KSC75 drivers and some Sportapro/Portapro/KSC35 drivers for me as well.

I found the cups didn't change the sound much, but oddly enough, cables did. I am usually not sold on cable hype, but couldn't help but see the improvement from both a stock and 8 conductor Grado cable.

Doing Kramer mods introduced fatigue for me, and going extreme Kramer and replacing the black grills with mesh made it worse. They performed best with the standard black plastic grills, unmodded.
Edited by fleasbaby - 11/3/13 at 9:06pm
post #4204 of 7544
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post
 

a friend of mine had this sennheiser, so i had the chance to listen to. the sennheiser px100 II is really dark sounding, no highs, so may fit, but i would not use this driver for a mod. if you spend $20 more you could get a sr60i.

 

 

German Guy,

 

I don't want to contradict what you've said as you've been a great contributor to this thread and this forum.  But, speculation of how the Sennheiser driver would do in a pair of Grado cups is quite different from how they might sound in their current plastic-based, on-ear sparse housings.

 

I've had the chance to test the Sennheiser driver in wooden cups.  While the sound is a bit dark from the the typical Grado house sound, the highs are there and detailed.  They are not up to the same level as the Koss KSC75 drivers, but are less pronounced and still, plenty of the detail is left in the music.  In fact, I'd have to use my PS-500 as the closet match on where I'd have to compare the Sennheisr Px100 II drivers to.  Does this mean I'd tell everyone to run a pay $59.00 for a pair?  Not really.  In my previous post, I had suggested that the driver would or could be an option.  Since that post, my ears have had a chance to hear the drivers in wooden cups.  The results are a bit surprising.  

 

When faced with the option for a pair of Magnum X drivers at $135 or a pair of px100 II drivers, I don't feel that the sound improvement of the Magnum X would warrant the 100% increase in cost.  Actually, the px100 II drivers have a better lower end.  The sound signature presents itself in a good manner.

 

While the results of how another's ears might perceive sounds might be quite different than how my ears might hear something.  However, while going through the exercise of testing out other drivers from other manufacturers in Grado wooden cups, I'm coming across a few surprises.  The px100 II has more detail to my ears than my Sennheiser HD-600 headphones had.  Plus, the low end is not suffering and is present just as well as it would be with the HD-600s.  The px100 II has bass that isn't just a one note wonder.  But, the bass is actually quite good.

 

Call me surprised.

 

Also, please let me share a few paragraphs from a comparison of the old PX100 vs. the new PX100 II headphones.  The review / comparison is pretty good at spelling out the signature of the PX100 II headphones.

 

Quote:
 

Soundwise, the PX100-II has been a pleasant surprise from the first time I put it on. I was expecting more of the same of the old PX100, but I wouldn’t mistake the new PX100-II’s sound for the old PX100’s. The new sound is generally quite forward and grabs your attention but still in a relatively smooth Sennheiser way. The overall sound of the PX100-II is bassy, warm, and full-bodied, and the added heft makes it less upper-mid oriented than the PX100. The frequency range is more even and fleshed-out than the PX100 and also more detailed overall, particularly apparent when I played both through Jazz tunes and live recordings. Subtle sounds in the quieter passages of the songs are just more easily noticeable with the PX100-II. There is also more depth and layer behind the sound compared to the original PX100, and the volume swings in classical recordings are more believable with the PX100-II.

The most easily noticeable difference between the two headphones is bass and midbass. The PX100-II has more bass quantity and thump. I don’t find the bass to be too excessive most of the time, and it is sufficiently deep, an improvement upon the PX100. However, if you like bass to be tight and light, this bass can be an issue. But, if you like a rather full and thumpy approach, you will like the PX100-II.


Edited by wje - 11/3/13 at 11:49pm
post #4205 of 7544

As a brief update.  The tiring fatigue I was facing a few hours back was resolved with 2 hours of sleep.  Now, onto the comparisons a bit.

 

In all honesty, I don't think I'd jump on the KSC75.  The driver just doesn't do *enough* things right.  I think as I pushed it through the various artists, one could see a somewhat inconsistent pattern in what I was hearing.  Some music was good, others not no good.  Norah Jones and Johnny Cash were flawed in the playback.  The KSC75 driver just somehow couldn't produce those vocals correctly.  Also, the music on Norah Jones' "Fees Like Home" disc, also sounded "off".  The accuracy of the music just seemed to have issues.

 

My apologies for writing such a novel on the KSC75, but I wanted to provide the information as I walked through my testing of the drivers in an actual listening situation so I could share the comments appropriately.

 

Now, where does that leave us?  Good Question.  A little side-by-side testing was in order.  But, the question is, which should be compared.  The "classic" pink mesh SR-60s?  The Grado SR-225i?  Or, straight to the top of my collection?  The RS1i?  Hmm ... Yup!  At first, I put on some Brian Simpson - punchy jazz with keyboards, horns, percussion, etc.  A very nice beat.  The first to be worn were the Woody PX100 II Sanneiser driver equipped headphones.  I listened carefully - yet, tried to convince myself if what I was hearing was actual, or flawed.  I was enjoying the sound, but I wasn't sure how it actually played out as I had not compared the Senn driver to another headphone at this point.  Thus, the need for careful listening to some of the familiar passages in the Brian Simpson songs.  

 

Then, the pause button was press.  The Senn PX100 II was unplugged and set down.  The Grado RS1i was plugged in, placed on my ears and the pause button was released.  Thunder?  Lightning?  Earthquake?  Fireworks?  I was expecting something, but I just wasn't sure.  Were my ears deceiving me?  Nope.  The RS1i was similar in tone, balance, instrument presentation as well as loudness.  This indicated to me the efficiency of the two drivers (Grado RS1i and Sennheiser PX100 II) were quite similar.  In fact, I can't believe how close the sound was.  I mean, there are some slight variations.  However, in the big picture, the results from the PX 100 II is just scary.  Scary to the point of where I'm expecting the Grado police to knock on my door any minute for my comments.

 

So, what should we all do now?  Is the game over?  Have we reached the Shangri La that we've all been searching for?  I'm not sure.  But, I'm flipping back and forth between the RS1i and the PX100 II and listening carefully to the music.  I'm confused to the point that when I have one pair of headphones on, I have to look down at my desk to see which pair is resting on my desk so I know which one is on my ears.  The difference is hard to distinguish.  In fact, if it were not for having both in my possession, making such a comparison would be impossible.  Now, I have an appetite for more.  But, not Magnum X to compare to the PX100 II at this time.  I'd love to have that comparison option.  I won't test the PS-500 against it, since the PS-500 is a bit darker and a bit less detail that we are used to in the Grado signature.

 

My thought.  A pair of MX100 II drivers, a pair of wooden cups, a headband, a cable and some good ear pads.  Then?  A road trip to send the headphones from member-to-member so they could listen and compare it to their current collection of Grados or Magnums.  I don't know how else to explain this. I could get all of the pieces assembled for the RS1i competitor.  But, setting up $230 or so for the build isn't in the cards right now.  

 

I'm speechless.  Now, I have all of you wondering how much stock I own in Sennheiser, right?  Well, I don't own one dime's worth of stock in Sennheiser.  In fact, I don't own any stock in any audio company to the best of my knowledge.  I'll shut up now as I feel that I've said quite enough. 

 

Edit: Grado RS1i disclaimer.  I'm not running the 8-conductor Grado cable in my current configuration.  I do have a custom 4-conductor Canare cable that is 7' in length being used.


Edited by wje - 11/4/13 at 1:35am
post #4206 of 7544

i think it´s great to share thoughts and opinions. and for me it´s no problem also sometimes to be corrected or seeing the opposite opinion. why not. and what you wrote especially about the sennheiser drivers ... have to check my filter ring inventory ... and let´s try it, we all and so i would be very happy to find driver alternatives.

post #4207 of 7544

Here's a picture of the two.  Grado RS1i is on the left, the PX100 II is on the right.

 

post #4208 of 7544
Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post

Here's a picture of the two.  Grado RS1i is on the left, the PX100 II is on the right.



Sounds like I'm buying a pair of the PX100 II's
post #4209 of 7544
Hi all,Just joined the forum.
Hope to learn more fr u guys.
Here's my grado , still needa do another sanding n final coat of lacquer.

Lee

post #4210 of 7544
Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post
 

 

I have the KSC-75 drivers in woodies right now.  I have Roberta Gambarini playing some sweet jazz for my ears.  

 

Some brief impressions (not scientific):

 

  • Low end - not pulsing.  But, when I hear the upright bass playing, the string plucks are quite evident from a sonic sense.
  • Mids - not really lacking in that regard.  Still need to push some other genres and artists through this setup, though.
  • Highs - Cymbals from the drummer present themselves accurately.  Detailed.  Not really over the top or too excessive -- then again, I'm familiar with the Grado house sound.  Others who don't the Grado sound, might not really love these drivers.  Highs are detailed, yet not piercing.
  • Overall - Performing better than I had ever anticipated.  With the details of the percussion, upright bass, etc., as well as vocal quality, these drivers when one considers the cost are a winner.  I'm not sure which Grado model I'd start to compare this driver too, though.  With the level of detail, maybe, the SR-325.  Then again, I haven't heard the SR-325 in a few years, but was familiar with the sound at one time.   Female vocals to give a presence of sibilance. ***  The sibilance is a bit better controlled with the Grado driver.  However, the sibilance of the KSC75 isn't to the point of being a deal breaker like the HifiMan HE-400 was.
  • Pads utilized: Sennheiser HD-414 pads with the "true" reverse quarter mod and not the mis-understood modification like I see 75% of the people apply.  Also, I used the TTVJ "flats" and the details in the bass were ever present again.
  • Cable, cups, etc. utilized: Wooden Padauk cups.  Standard 4-conductor Grado cable crudely soldered to the leads on the Koss drivers.  Electrical tape was quickly placed on connections to prevent any "shorts" from occurring.
  • Notable items:  I've read some comparisons between the KSC35 and KSC75.  The KSC35 was made several years ago, but some people have reflected that the KSC35 is a bit less sibilant than the KSC75.  Also, other comments indicated that taking the drivers from the Koss Porta-Pro headphones was recommended as the drivers would fit into the casing for the KSC75.  The bass is a bit better in this case.  I don't have the Porta-Pros, but do see they are about $38.00 on Amazon.  Also, about $42.00 on Ebay with free shipping.

 

  • Late breaking comments:  During the write-up summary, I toggled through some different genres.
  •     Jeff Golub in "My Three Kinds" - this a blues album covering the work of the (3) Kings who were all bluesmen with the same last name of King.  The guitars, vocals and lower end is really quite good.
  •     Boney James - Sax and drums on "The Beat" were nicely presented.  The vocals were good too.
  •     Yellowjackets - Great detail in their piano, percussion and saxaphone instruments.  The don't use vocals, so this can't be evaluated with their music.
  •     Bettye Lavette "Thankful and Thoughtful" - Good low-end tracks on this album.  Her vocals are detailed, yet not sibilant.
  •     Melody Gardot "My One and Only Thrill" - Great vocals - brings out the variation and detail of what she really is capable of with her singing.  
  •     Arturo Sandoval "Journey to Chateau de le Feun" -- Great sound and presence with his trumpet.  Keyboards were enjoyable to hear.  This album is detailed ... yet has punchy tracks on it.
  •     John Ginty "Bad News Travels" - John is a Hammond B3 organ king.  This whole album has his B3 whaling away through the tracks.  The man is talented at making this organ run "full throttle" to put lots of intensity into his songs.  The Hammond played                  pleasantly through the Koss drivers.               
  •     Norah Jones "Fees Like Home" - Good.  But, the presence of Norah on these drivers seemed to be trying a bit too hard.  She and her voice wasn't as set back as I remember the songs to be on other speakers and headphones.
  •     Johnny Cash American IV "The Man Comes Around" - Good acoustic guitar and piano.  Johnny's voice came across a bit odd.  Not as "true" as I know for these songs to be on other headphones.  
  •     Johnny Cash "Ain't No Grave" - After trying to decipher Johnny's voice on the previous album, I decided to give this a listen.  Better, yet still not the true Johnny that I recall from other Grado experiences that I've had.  Not sure about this.
  •     10,000 Maniacs.  Natalie Merchant has a very lovely voice.  She sounds "on cue" with the Koss drivers.  

 

*** - I should note that the sibilance on the Roberta Gambarini album that I have is noted to be sibilant.  I've experienced this on other headphones, too.  I don't want to indicate that this is a weakness on the KSC75, when it really is not.

 

### -- I'm getting a bit drowsy.  I think some of my impressions should be taken with a bit of a grain of salt.  My listening isn't as tuned in towards some of the details in the artists and their music to share further detailed impressions.  Again though, I'll give more comments when I'm more awake and have had more listening time.  Also, for those who spring for the $9.99 to play with this driver, I will also be interested in the dialog that could take place.  The KSC75 isn't an RS1i killer by no stretch of the imagination.  Though, I think it is worthy of comparing against the Grado SR-60, 80, 125 and 225 to see how it stacks up against those models.  Time to hit the "Submit" button as I've had this reply open for the past 50 minutes as I was listening and collecting some impressions to share.

 

From the pictures, the first thing I noticed on the back magnet of the driver were the two vent holes.  Placed similar to how Grado has theirs on the backs of the drivers.  I'll have to look at other drivers of this nature to discover other likenesses that might be present.  

I am relatively new at modifying dynamic drivers. I have not read this entire thread so excuse me if this has already been discussed.

 

An ear side material over the driver should reduce sibilance. It may not require fully covering the driver, i.e. cover only 1/2 or 1/3 with a felt wedge vs a felt donut vs felt disk (smaller than driver vs same size as driver). Thin cotton, polyfil, or Angel Hair may work, as well or perhaps better?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post
 

 

 

German Guy,

 

I don't want to contradict what you've said as you've been a great contributor to this thread and this forum.  But, speculation of how the Sennheiser driver would do in a pair of Grado cups is quite different from how they might sound in their current plastic-based, on-ear sparse housings.

 

I've had the chance to test the Sennheiser driver in wooden cups.  While the sound is a bit dark from the the typical Grado house sound, the highs are there and detailed.  They are not up to the same level as the Koss KSC75 drivers, but are less pronounced and still, plenty of the detail is left in the music.  In fact, I'd have to use my PS-500 as the closet match on where I'd have to compare the Sennheisr Px100 II drivers to.  Does this mean I'd tell everyone to run a pay $59.00 for a pair?  Not really.  In my previous post, I had suggested that the driver would or could be an option.  Since that post, my ears have had a chance to hear the drivers in wooden cups.  The results are a bit surprising.  

 

When faced with the option for a pair of Magnum X drivers at $135 or a pair of px100 II drivers, I don't feel that the sound improvement of the Magnum X would warrant the 100% increase in cost.  Actually, the px100 II drivers have a better lower end.  The sound signature presents itself in a good manner.

 

While the results of how another's ears might perceive sounds might be quite different than how my ears might hear something.  However, while going through the exercise of testing out other drivers from other manufacturers in Grado wooden cups, I'm coming across a few surprises.  The px100 II has more detail to my ears than my Sennheiser HD-600 headphones had.  Plus, the low end is not suffering and is present just as well as it would be with the HD-600s.  The px100 II has bass that isn't just a one note wonder.  But, the bass is actually quite good.

 

Call me surprised.

 

Also, please let me share a few paragraphs from a comparison of the old PX100 vs. the new PX100 II headphones.  The review / comparison is pretty good at spelling out the signature of the PX100 II headphones.

 

Good stuff, Wayne!  Thanks so much for the detailed and informative posts.

 

Were the PX100 II's drivers transplanted into similar Grado cups or left in their stock enclosures? As you know, pads contribute a significant percentage of the variance in headphone sound quality. In your comparisons, were the pads both Grados?

 

Can PX100 II drivers be "dropped in" as Grado substitutes?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post
 

As a brief update.  The tiring fatigue I was facing a few hours back was resolved with 2 hours of sleep.  Now, onto the comparisons a bit.

 

In all honesty, I don't think I'd jump on the KSC75.  The driver just doesn't do *enough* things right.  I think as I pushed it through the various artists, one could see a somewhat inconsistent pattern in what I was hearing.  Some music was good, others not no good.  Norah Jones and Johnny Cash were flawed in the playback.  The KSC75 driver just somehow couldn't produce those vocals correctly.  Also, the music on Norah Jones' "Fees Like Home" disc, also sounded "off".  The accuracy of the music just seemed to have issues.

 

My apologies for writing such a novel on the KSC75, but I wanted to provide the information as I walked through my testing of the drivers in an actual listening situation so I could share the comments appropriately.

 

Now, where does that leave us?  Good Question.  A little side-by-side testing was in order.  But, the question is, which should be compared.  The "classic" pink mesh SR-60s?  The Grado SR-225i?  Or, straight to the top of my collection?  The RS1i?  Hmm ... Yup!  At first, I put on some Brian Simpson - punchy jazz with keyboards, horns, percussion, etc.  A very nice beat.  The first to be worn were the Woody PX100 II Sanneiser driver equipped headphones.  I listened carefully - yet, tried to convince myself if what I was hearing was actual, or flawed.  I was enjoying the sound, but I wasn't sure how it actually played out as I had not compared the Senn driver to another headphone at this point.  Thus, the need for careful listening to some of the familiar passages in the Brian Simpson songs.  

 

Then, the pause button was press.  The Senn PX100 II was unplugged and set down.  The Grado RS1i was plugged in, placed on my ears and the pause button was released.  Thunder?  Lightning?  Earthquake?  Fireworks?  I was expecting something, but I just wasn't sure.  Were my ears deceiving me?  Nope.  The RS1i was similar in tone, balance, instrument presentation as well as loudness.  This indicated to me the efficiency of the two drivers (Grado RS1i and Sennheiser PX100 II) were quite similar.  In fact, I can't believe how close the sound was.  I mean, there are some slight variations.  However, in the big picture, the results from the PX 100 II is just scary.  Scary to the point of where I'm expecting the Grado police to knock on my door any minute for my comments.

 

So, what should we all do now?  Is the game over?  Have we reached the Shangri La that we've all been searching for?  I'm not sure.  But, I'm flipping back and forth between the RS1i and the PX100 II and listening carefully to the music.  I'm confused to the point that when I have one pair of headphones on, I have to look down at my desk to see which pair is resting on my desk so I know which one is on my ears.  The difference is hard to distinguish.  In fact, if it were not for having both in my possession, making such a comparison would be impossible.  Now, I have an appetite for more.  But, not Magnum X to compare to the PX100 II at this time.  I'd love to have that comparison option.  I won't test the PS-500 against it, since the PS-500 is a bit darker and a bit less detail that we are used to in the Grado signature.

 

My thought.  A pair of MX100 II drivers, a pair of wooden cups, a headband, a cable and some good ear pads.  Then?  A road trip to send the headphones from member-to-member so they could listen and compare it to their current collection of Grados or Magnums.  I don't know how else to explain this. I could get all of the pieces assembled for the RS1i competitor.  But, setting up $230 or so for the build isn't in the cards right now.  

 

I'm speechless.  Now, I have all of you wondering how much stock I own in Sennheiser, right?  Well, I don't own one dime's worth of stock in Sennheiser.  In fact, I don't own any stock in any audio company to the best of my knowledge.  I'll shut up now as I feel that I've said quite enough. 

 

Edit: Grado RS1i disclaimer.  I'm not running the 8-conductor Grado cable in my current configuration.  I do have a custom 4-conductor Canare cable that is 7' in length being used.

 

It would be interesting to set up 2 identical headphones with the only difference being the Grado driver of your choice in one, and the Senn PS100 II driver in the other.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post
 

i think it´s great to share thoughts and opinions. and for me it´s no problem also sometimes to be corrected or seeing the opposite opinion. why not. and what you wrote especially about the sennheiser drivers ... have to check my filter ring inventory ... and let´s try it, we all and so i would be very happy to find driver alternatives.

^^This^^


Edited by bluemonkeyflyer - 11/4/13 at 6:25am
post #4211 of 7544
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfetan44 View Post

Anybody happen to know what size the Fostex T50RP driver is?

Not able to fit in a Grado that's for sure.
post #4212 of 7544
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemonkeyflyer View Post
 

Can PX100 II drivers be "dropped in" as Grado substitutes?

 

Yes.  With the non-Grado wooden cups that I have, I was able to do this.  As you can see in my picture of both headphones with the ear cushions facing up, I do have a bit of grey foam sticking out.  I basically had some grey weatherstrip foam that I used around the driver and then pushed it into the cup to secure it.  The gap difference between cup and driver is about 1/8", so the Senn driver is just a wee bit smaller.  This should not be an issue for most people to resolve though, without any major issues.

 

Regarding sibiliance.  I only used the stock factory driver protectors.  These protectors were made of plastic and protect the driver as they face the ear.  A finger could potentially poke the driver if these were not in place.  The only difference is that the factory foam ear cushions for the said drivers are not being utilized.   Though, I only have the issue with the Koss driver.  The Sennheiser driver is good.

 

My ear pads.  I had the L-Cush pads on my RS1i for the testing.  I had the Sennheiser HD-414 pads with the reverse quarter mod applied which is what I used on the test with the Sennheiser drivers in wooden cups.

 

Sennheiser PX100 II cost.  I've seen the headphone at B&H photo for $48.00, shipped free in the U.S.  Other vendors are a bit higher (NewEgg, Ebay, etc.).  When I went to Google.com/shopping and did a serach for "PX100 II" the vendors and prices came up.  One had them for $33 and change.  They claim they were new models.  I didn't proceed to the point of checkout to see how bad the shippping charges would be, though.  While $33.## seems great, their shipping costs could be horrendous.  Also, not sure of their reliability.  With B&H, I may pay a slight amount more, but they are a solid vendor and I know my item will arrive in 3 days.

 

Back to work for now ...

post #4213 of 7544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thedeviling View Post

Hi all,Just joined the forum.
Hope to learn more fr u guys.
Here's my grado , still needa do another sanding n final coat of lacquer.

Lee

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thedeviling View Post

Hi all,Just joined the forum.
Hope to learn more fr u guys.
Here's my grado , still needa do another sanding n final coat of lacquer.

Lee

 

Nice!

post #4214 of 7544

Granted, we should really never buy a pair of headphones based on graphs or graph performance alone.  However, I am posting the graphs for the frequency response on the PX100 II headphones and the Grado RS1i headphones.  One thing to note is that the graphs for both feature that familiar "hump" but you can see that the upper frequency rolloff for the PX100 II dives a bit deeper, and a bit earlier.  But, keep in mind the PX100 II measurements were taken in their plastic on-ear housings and not in wooden cups.  Also, the PX100 II has a bit more "beef" on the lower end.  Not a lot, but it's there on the graph -- again, though, not in wooden cups.

 

 

 

 

 

post #4215 of 7544
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfetan44 View Post
 

Anybody happen to know what size the Fostex T50RP driver is?

Outer edge to outer edge = 55 x 76 mm (W x L)

Driver opening = 34 x 34 mm

Driver height = ~ 9 mm

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