take a look at this website if u hv time: http://www.anstendig.org/AudioCable.html
Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org
Nordwestlicht
Maybe good or not good for you, that you spend money for audio gear to get a placebo effect. You believe in this and you're not alone in this "club". I don't because it's often technically nonsense and not to barely audible. And for sure it's -when audible- different, but NOT BETTER. That's my experience.
Beats?! I think you haven't got me. I primarily listen to classical music and what should I do with a crappy sounding Dr.Dre Beats there? Headphones make a huge difference.
First comes the recording, then the headphones/speaker, then the rest... and the rest is not very important, compared to the recording quality and the headphones/speaker.
I will try to discuss the link about cables you've posted here. There is a discussion about cable sounding on German hifi forum.
This "institute" doesn't prove anything scientifically and it's hard to take them seriously. They seem to me also be fooled by a common kind of placebo effect and so it's just one opinion out of many and nothing to be written in a scientific schoolbook.
Opinions vs. opinions. That's the way it is.
Be glad with your stuff, as I am with mine. As we in German say, you seem to be a Goldohr (golden ear) and I'm a Holzohr (wooden ear, meant to hear less than the golden ear).
The HD800, as I said, sounds wonderful out of the Sony NW-HD5 mp3-player even in direct comparison to other SS amps at the same volume. But the NW-HD5 has not the balls to drive it loud enough for me.
Beats?! I think you haven't got me. I primarily listen to classical music and what should I do with a crappy sounding Dr.Dre Beats there? Headphones make a huge difference.
First comes the recording, then the headphones/speaker, then the rest... and the rest is not very important, compared to the recording quality and the headphones/speaker.
I will try to discuss the link about cables you've posted here. There is a discussion about cable sounding on German hifi forum.
This "institute" doesn't prove anything scientifically and it's hard to take them seriously. They seem to me also be fooled by a common kind of placebo effect and so it's just one opinion out of many and nothing to be written in a scientific schoolbook.
Opinions vs. opinions. That's the way it is.
Be glad with your stuff, as I am with mine. As we in German say, you seem to be a Goldohr (golden ear) and I'm a Holzohr (wooden ear, meant to hear less than the golden ear).
The HD800, as I said, sounds wonderful out of the Sony NW-HD5 mp3-player even in direct comparison to other SS amps at the same volume. But the NW-HD5 has not the balls to drive it loud enough for me.
Dennis
"This "institute" doesn't prove anything scientifically and it's hard to take them seriously."
---> So, some people did a large scale test and hv a set of serious datas, and u said it doesn't prove anything.... Perhaps, it's u who doesn't prove anything at all~
"Opinions vs. opinions. That's the way it is."
---> Ur opinion V.S Someone else's Data (@.@)
"As we in German say, you seem to be a Goldohr (golden ear) and I'm a Holzohr (wooden ear, meant to hear less than the golden ear)."
---> I hv never said I am a golden ear.... pls don't pretend that u know everything~
---> So, some people did a large scale test and hv a set of serious datas, and u said it doesn't prove anything.... Perhaps, it's u who doesn't prove anything at all~
"Opinions vs. opinions. That's the way it is."
---> Ur opinion V.S Someone else's Data (@.@)
"As we in German say, you seem to be a Goldohr (golden ear) and I'm a Holzohr (wooden ear, meant to hear less than the golden ear)."
---> I hv never said I am a golden ear.... pls don't pretend that u know everything~
Dennis
Is there any differenc between balanced connection and sing-end connection, wt do u think?
Nordwestlicht
Some people...? fine... I can also create some nice data. There is no objective data with an obligatory conclusion in this field.
What does that data prove for the single listeining individual human being? Nothing at all. It's opinion vs. opinion, as I said.
Something might have an effect. But it has in the first place to be undoubtly proven that nothing is interfered by the own and collective imagination...
To your question:
Balanced connection might have an advantage over single ended as long as the wohle chain is a balanced setup. Balanced connection is mainly to go against parasitic induction and against "Übersprechen" (don't know the English term), I think. Some of the Corda amps use active balanced ground, which should have a similar effect like a balanced connection. But you won't get a better sound out of balanced connections, if the single ended chain runs already perfectly.
In the end:
I've looked at your gear in your profile and you seem indeed to be kind of a snake-oil supporter.
You have voodoo-power cords and power filter? For what?!?! Has the coflow in the USA such negative effects on the audio quality?
Power cords... hahahaha!!!
Btw. most, if not all, problematic components of big companies have built in such filters, because they are really cheap and have, if necessary an effect.
But maybe the DIY-hoodoo-voodoo industry with its hughe amount of "knowledge"
is not able to build in such cheap filters, if necessary. But wait! Why build in something you can charge big amounts of extra $$$ for from fellow voodoo believers... money always seems to be the best reason in a commercial world.
And you belive in the advantage of different fuses?! Ridiculus, if so!!! Or what exactly is use of different fuses you seem to use in some components?
That all might be just fine for you, but it's not my way out of my own experience (and not only out of mine) and much of it is technically nonsense.
So I think, this leads to not much, why I won't continue to answer more of your questions.
Maybe sometimes you will see the things in a similar way, maybe not. Who knows?
And I think it's not important at all, as long as you feel good with your toys with voodoo and I feel good with mine without voodoo.
The future is -as always- not predictable, except maybe the continuing destruction of our universe by entropy.
But that's another funny story...
What does that data prove for the single listeining individual human being? Nothing at all. It's opinion vs. opinion, as I said.
Something might have an effect. But it has in the first place to be undoubtly proven that nothing is interfered by the own and collective imagination...
To your question:
Balanced connection might have an advantage over single ended as long as the wohle chain is a balanced setup. Balanced connection is mainly to go against parasitic induction and against "Übersprechen" (don't know the English term), I think. Some of the Corda amps use active balanced ground, which should have a similar effect like a balanced connection. But you won't get a better sound out of balanced connections, if the single ended chain runs already perfectly.
In the end:
I've looked at your gear in your profile and you seem indeed to be kind of a snake-oil supporter.
You have voodoo-power cords and power filter? For what?!?! Has the coflow in the USA such negative effects on the audio quality?
Power cords... hahahaha!!!
Btw. most, if not all, problematic components of big companies have built in such filters, because they are really cheap and have, if necessary an effect.
But maybe the DIY-hoodoo-voodoo industry with its hughe amount of "knowledge"
is not able to build in such cheap filters, if necessary. But wait! Why build in something you can charge big amounts of extra $$$ for from fellow voodoo believers... money always seems to be the best reason in a commercial world.And you belive in the advantage of different fuses?! Ridiculus, if so!!! Or what exactly is use of different fuses you seem to use in some components?
That all might be just fine for you, but it's not my way out of my own experience (and not only out of mine) and much of it is technically nonsense.
So I think, this leads to not much, why I won't continue to answer more of your questions.
Maybe sometimes you will see the things in a similar way, maybe not. Who knows?
And I think it's not important at all, as long as you feel good with your toys with voodoo and I feel good with mine without voodoo.
The future is -as always- not predictable, except maybe the continuing destruction of our universe by entropy.
But that's another funny story...
Dennis
(But you won't get a better sound out of balanced connections, if the single ended chain runs already perfectly.)
---> http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php?graphID%5B0%5D=2321&graphID%5B1%5D=863&graphID%5B2%5D=&graphID%5B3%5D=&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones
Objective data proves that u r wrong AGAIN~
(I've looked at your gear in your profile and you seem indeed to be kind of a snake-oil supporter.)
---> I hv never said that the powercords and the power filter work. *Again*, pls don't always act like voodoo....
Hv I ever ever said I believe in the advantages of diff. fuses? Hv I? I assume u believe in some kinds of German Voodoo?
How come u know wt I am thinking before I say it out? Do I hv the right to buy some products with my own money and try them out?
U r such a funny German Shaman~
---> http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php?graphID%5B0%5D=2321&graphID%5B1%5D=863&graphID%5B2%5D=&graphID%5B3%5D=&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones
Objective data proves that u r wrong AGAIN~
(I've looked at your gear in your profile and you seem indeed to be kind of a snake-oil supporter.)
---> I hv never said that the powercords and the power filter work. *Again*, pls don't always act like voodoo....
Hv I ever ever said I believe in the advantages of diff. fuses? Hv I? I assume u believe in some kinds of German Voodoo?
How come u know wt I am thinking before I say it out? Do I hv the right to buy some products with my own money and try them out?
U r such a funny German Shaman~
Nordwestlicht
Again, my addiction to answer to your comments...
The data (balanced/unbalanced HD800) you present is well known to me.
I tend to believe that those different FR charts have more to do with individual headphone exemplars or maybe even other effects, too.
Look at e.g. Tylls different measurements of the LCD-2 and others, okay, that might be another case.
To make it clear:
I THINK it, I don't KNOW it for sure.
But your so called "proves" are not better at all. Maybe there is something, maybe not... and the bigger question is, whether it is audible or not and -when it comes to data- whether the used methods to get the data are really uniform and therefor scientific.
The modded HD800 sounds slightly different to me compared to the unmodded. To me at least it seems to be so, out of my experience with it. That's what I can say, but here we do some physical changes on the HD800 that effect the sound. Cables said to have lower resistor by using e.g. silver at the length of about 3 meters compared to the stock cable and therefor effect the sound really audible, are technically nonsense. Pure imagination. Like some of Sony's speakers which technical specs show that they are able to produce 100kHz frequencies. But who in the world can hear this and the side effects sometimes praised also don't seem to me inevitably.
There is no hard technical evidence known to me why just a single balanced cable should change the sound of a headphone (and more so if not the whole chain is balanced) in a better way. This subject is also often discussed without a clear result. The positive technical effects of balanced cable are what I talked about already in my last post here, but you seem to have not read my posts carefully enough. Even if the measurements are correct, the balanced cable does not make the sound BETTER! You have not proven that and therefor not rebuted my thoughts on this.
The data (balanced/unbalanced HD800) you present is well known to me.
I tend to believe that those different FR charts have more to do with individual headphone exemplars or maybe even other effects, too.
Look at e.g. Tylls different measurements of the LCD-2 and others, okay, that might be another case.
To make it clear:
I THINK it, I don't KNOW it for sure.
But your so called "proves" are not better at all. Maybe there is something, maybe not... and the bigger question is, whether it is audible or not and -when it comes to data- whether the used methods to get the data are really uniform and therefor scientific.
The modded HD800 sounds slightly different to me compared to the unmodded. To me at least it seems to be so, out of my experience with it. That's what I can say, but here we do some physical changes on the HD800 that effect the sound. Cables said to have lower resistor by using e.g. silver at the length of about 3 meters compared to the stock cable and therefor effect the sound really audible, are technically nonsense. Pure imagination. Like some of Sony's speakers which technical specs show that they are able to produce 100kHz frequencies. But who in the world can hear this and the side effects sometimes praised also don't seem to me inevitably.
There is no hard technical evidence known to me why just a single balanced cable should change the sound of a headphone (and more so if not the whole chain is balanced) in a better way. This subject is also often discussed without a clear result. The positive technical effects of balanced cable are what I talked about already in my last post here, but you seem to have not read my posts carefully enough. Even if the measurements are correct, the balanced cable does not make the sound BETTER! You have not proven that and therefor not rebuted my thoughts on this.
Nordwestlicht
Well, I learned English in school, as well as French and Latin.
My primary languages are German and Dutch.
Maybe my English is (sometimes) too bad and you get me wrong because of this. I don't know.
I always wrote "I think", "it seems to me" and something like that regarding your person.
I made my conclusions out of my observations (your gear in your profile) and wrote what I thought about it. I've never said that I undoubtedly believe that you believe for example in the sound effects of fuses, but it strongly seems to me to be so, because why should someone with the ability of rational thoughts buy stuff like this if he is not crazy in the mind, otherwise?
Okay, maybe you like(d) to buy it out of reasons I can't understand, maybe you have been fooled by the opinion of others... I DON'T KNOW.
To me, you're some kind of a serious clown... if something like that exists.
That's not meant offensive, maybe it makes you even some kind of likable for me.
And it's nice you think I'm a German Shaman. Funny indeed.
Probably I can make money with those "abilities"...
My primary languages are German and Dutch.
Maybe my English is (sometimes) too bad and you get me wrong because of this. I don't know.
I always wrote "I think", "it seems to me" and something like that regarding your person.
I made my conclusions out of my observations (your gear in your profile) and wrote what I thought about it. I've never said that I undoubtedly believe that you believe for example in the sound effects of fuses, but it strongly seems to me to be so, because why should someone with the ability of rational thoughts buy stuff like this if he is not crazy in the mind, otherwise?
Okay, maybe you like(d) to buy it out of reasons I can't understand, maybe you have been fooled by the opinion of others... I DON'T KNOW.
To me, you're some kind of a serious clown... if something like that exists.
That's not meant offensive, maybe it makes you even some kind of likable for me.
And it's nice you think I'm a German Shaman. Funny indeed.
Probably I can make money with those "abilities"...
Nordwestlicht
Btw. that's it for now from my side.
Maybe you could show our discussion here to others, so that they can get the giggles about it.
Probably we should make our own audiophile comedy-show sometime together.
The best wishes, Frank
Maybe you could show our discussion here to others, so that they can get the giggles about it.
Probably we should make our own audiophile comedy-show sometime together.
The best wishes, Frank
Dennis
whenever there are datas that prove u r wrong, u will just say "I tend to believe that......" and u think the measurements are not objective. Jesus.....
Is that German Voodoo? Always assume things that u don't know? Wt u think = Fact? U should make some money with ur abilities, shaman~ coz u can basically ignore all the proves and datas in the world and only believe wt u think is true.
"why should someone with the ability of rational thoughts buy stuff like this if he is not crazy in the mind"
---> That's my own money, right? Do i hv to right to spend it? OMG..... i think u can't do that in German, right? (base on my observation, it strongly seems to me to be so)
***So, u think all ss amps sound exactly (100%) the same?
Is that German Voodoo? Always assume things that u don't know? Wt u think = Fact? U should make some money with ur abilities, shaman~ coz u can basically ignore all the proves and datas in the world and only believe wt u think is true.
"why should someone with the ability of rational thoughts buy stuff like this if he is not crazy in the mind"
---> That's my own money, right? Do i hv to right to spend it? OMG..... i think u can't do that in German, right? (base on my observation, it strongly seems to me to be so)
***So, u think all ss amps sound exactly (100%) the same?
Nordwestlicht
I'm laughing my ass off!
I've seen so much "proves" (well and bad made ones) in my life, which can look nice and prove nothing what they are intended to prove. But with the right flowery text someone will buy it for sure...
You're aware that the graphic you present is made by the vendor of such fuses...?! THINK ABOUT IT!
http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-18-1734.html
Maybe you can use a translator. The sound effect of fuses is just ridiculus.
And to your question "So, u think all ss amps sound exactly (100%) the same?"
My answer, again:
For the human capability of hearing: YES, but maybe only to 99,999999% the same.
If you have an ss with
- no audible noise (black background)
- no other sound circuits like crossfeed ON
- no different sound volume level when listened to it
- no different output resistor
then they will sound 99,999999% the same.
Not 100% because it's always good to have some doubts and -the main reason- the brain is too complex to make out clearly subtle differences.
Such "proves" like "I hear differences" are none.
And proves measured are not automatically heard, because the hearing of us humans is indeed very limited.
I think, for example, that the Cantate.2 sounds very slightly warmer that e.g. the Concerto.
BUT this also can be pure imagination influenced through having read such opinions before or through other tricks the brain plays on me.
So in the end, I think all ss amps under the listed circumstances above sound 100% the same.
Okay, now, happy listening with/to your voodoo stuff!
I'm really really off for now. Must fight my addiction to answer to your posts... even if it is funny...
I've seen so much "proves" (well and bad made ones) in my life, which can look nice and prove nothing what they are intended to prove. But with the right flowery text someone will buy it for sure...
You're aware that the graphic you present is made by the vendor of such fuses...?! THINK ABOUT IT!
http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-18-1734.html
Maybe you can use a translator. The sound effect of fuses is just ridiculus.
And to your question "So, u think all ss amps sound exactly (100%) the same?"
My answer, again:
For the human capability of hearing: YES, but maybe only to 99,999999% the same.
If you have an ss with
- no audible noise (black background)
- no other sound circuits like crossfeed ON
- no different sound volume level when listened to it
- no different output resistor
then they will sound 99,999999% the same.
Not 100% because it's always good to have some doubts and -the main reason- the brain is too complex to make out clearly subtle differences.
Such "proves" like "I hear differences" are none.
And proves measured are not automatically heard, because the hearing of us humans is indeed very limited.
I think, for example, that the Cantate.2 sounds very slightly warmer that e.g. the Concerto.
BUT this also can be pure imagination influenced through having read such opinions before or through other tricks the brain plays on me.
So in the end, I think all ss amps under the listed circumstances above sound 100% the same.
Okay, now, happy listening with/to your voodoo stuff!
I'm really really off for now. Must fight my addiction to answer to your posts... even if it is funny...
Dennis
just now, u said all ss amps the listed circumstances above sound 100% the same.
how come u can hear that Cantate.2 is slightly "warmer" than Concerto??? ROTFLMAO...... XD
So, u can hear thedifference??? That seems like I hv under-estimated ur "abilities", German shaman. Ur golden voodoo ears~
U r so pathetic that u can't even spend ur own money freely.....
Everyone disagrees with u (even ur German fds).... okay, now, happy listening with ur "slightly warmer" Cantate.2!!!
how come u can hear that Cantate.2 is slightly "warmer" than Concerto??? ROTFLMAO...... XD
So, u can hear thedifference??? That seems like I hv under-estimated ur "abilities", German shaman. Ur golden voodoo ears~
U r so pathetic that u can't even spend ur own money freely.....
Everyone disagrees with u (even ur German fds).... okay, now, happy listening with ur "slightly warmer" Cantate.2!!!
Dennis
all ss amps under the listed circumstances above sound 100% the same -----> the Cantate.2 sounds very slightly warmer than the Concerto
I just can't stop laughing.... u r such a funny shaman!
That's just like saying "those 2 car's exteriors are 100% the same, BUT I think car A looks slightly better...." LMAO~
I just can't stop laughing.... u r such a funny shaman!
That's just like saying "those 2 car's exteriors are 100% the same, BUT I think car A looks slightly better...." LMAO~
Dennis
"Voodoo" USB cable: Digital is indeed sending fully analogue electrons over a wire. And indeed, the block pulse degrades with the length. A good digital cable is one who minimizes this degradation.
Agree?
Agree?
Nordwestlicht
I think you should learn to read what I've written in the wohle and not just pick out sentences you like, while ignoring the context.
But after all you don't seem to be capable to manage this task...
To your question:
USB cables produce very huge differences in the sound!!!
And more so, if the connector is gold-plated. It's a stunning experience!
Platin-wire, octa-shielded, with 1,2748cm diameter and wooden connectors with diamonds are the best here, when it comes to USB.
Yeah, trolling can be fun and you're a troll, that's what I know, now.
If not a troll, you might be an idiot.
I don't know such specific things out of the distance.
Because I'm a friendly person, "I think/it seems to me" you're a troll.
Bye-bye, troll.
But after all you don't seem to be capable to manage this task...
To your question:
USB cables produce very huge differences in the sound!!!
And more so, if the connector is gold-plated. It's a stunning experience!
Platin-wire, octa-shielded, with 1,2748cm diameter and wooden connectors with diamonds are the best here, when it comes to USB.
Yeah, trolling can be fun and you're a troll, that's what I know, now.
If not a troll, you might be an idiot.
I don't know such specific things out of the distance.
Because I'm a friendly person, "I think/it seems to me" you're a troll.
Bye-bye, troll.
Dennis
"USB cables produce very huge differences in the sound!!! "
---> WOW... just now u said cables are voodoo stuff and it doesn't make a difference at all~ and now, u agree that cables DO make a difference~ OMG.....
And u always try to avoid my questions....
U said all ss amps the listed circumstances above sound 100% the same.
how come u can hear that Cantate.2 is slightly "warmer" than Concerto???I can feel that u r getting mad already~ but that's fine. calling someone idiot is not polite at all, especially u r the actual idiot~ XD
"bye-bye" seriously?? okay, so u always say bye-bye whenever u lose ur advantage on something..... We can that a "Loser"!
---> WOW... just now u said cables are voodoo stuff and it doesn't make a difference at all~ and now, u agree that cables DO make a difference~ OMG.....
And u always try to avoid my questions....
U said all ss amps the listed circumstances above sound 100% the same.
how come u can hear that Cantate.2 is slightly "warmer" than Concerto???I can feel that u r getting mad already~ but that's fine. calling someone idiot is not polite at all, especially u r the actual idiot~ XD
"bye-bye" seriously?? okay, so u always say bye-bye whenever u lose ur advantage on something..... We can that a "Loser"!
Dennis
okay, I am not going to keep torturing (questioning) u.
*****One Simple Last Question:
U said all ss amps the listed circumstances above sound 100% the same.
how come u can hear that Cantate.2 is slightly "warmer" than Concerto? Golden Ear? Shaman? German Voodoo?
Obviously, ur latest statement has a conflict with ur previous statement.... FAIL
*****One Simple Last Question:
U said all ss amps the listed circumstances above sound 100% the same.
how come u can hear that Cantate.2 is slightly "warmer" than Concerto? Golden Ear? Shaman? German Voodoo?
Obviously, ur latest statement has a conflict with ur previous statement.... FAIL
XxDobermanxX
*eats popcorn*
If u can, congratulations! U just prove wt u said are wrong.
If u can't, also congratulations! U don't hv to spend >1K$ to get the HD800. Just get a Monster Beats Studio and enjoy the music~
Don't waste a Hi-End headphone.