Excellent review , yes they are the imaging champs even with the stax 009 out !

Very thoughtful review, and a pleasure to read from start to finish.

Do you really need an amp with this one? I don't at all with my 600's, pots at 50 per cent. The amp is likely pushing your sound stage forward, acting as a tone control. Possibly, that's what people are using the tubes for -- I think tubes are like taking a bath in warm wet sand... grain and mush. Also, I've found that sibilance comes from the source, not the transducer. I was testing out an old Denon to gift to someone who's into 'music' today, and it totally sibilanced up what, in the sacd 777es, and the Oppo 105, had been in both a very nice sweet sound...even through the Oppo's head amp, by the way.

What these cans do, as well as my HD600s, is clearly illustrate the output signature differences between my Oppo 95 and my Denon DVD3930. The Oppo is very detailed, makes the treble a bit screechy bright at times, and is a bit bass shy. The Denon, on the other hand, gets the upper frequencies just right and has plenty of slam and depth to the bass.

i'm a classical-head and i want the orchestra itself to create the slam and bass. i've got the HD800's now, and i've added dragon silver wired cable onto it and there's no more screech. for mumphing and fuzz, i used silicon pads -- mack's pillow-soft -- on the outside of the cans -- matching the clear sound -- into the interior of the image -- i'd find by putting my hands over the ear-pieces and lifting and moving them to find the right image. then i mooge on the silicon pads to match. very clean sound now from the 105. it looks funky, but i only look at sounds in my head or on the music sheet.

You are using the head amp in the 105 I assume? I am using a Creek OBH-11. Amps can make all the difference in the world. Yes, you really do need an amp to properly resolve all of what your player is putting out. My best sources are some SACDs and some Telarcs. I am looking for a better amp than the Burson HA160D.

nuh-uh. i tried a bryston BH-1 and it had no effect except to tell me that interconnects between units do have a sound of their own. : )
with four amps out -- and i'm using XLRs from the back of the 105 into the HD800's -- i could practically crank a toyota. The headphone jack and headphone amp of the 105 is worthless.

sorry, four watts -- i've had four amps go out in my time, but this is just supposed to say watt units. : ) and, yes, four watts wouldn't crank a bumble-bee, but they do give loud at 50+ setting.
my dumb.

Wow. This review is awesome. There should be more like it. So it sounds like the hd800 sound very transparent and great, but as someone who is very very sensitive and critical about neutral frequency response, i would find them a little off from being truly flat? Such as the sub bass and treble...

Poor mans HD800's?