[Joe Bloggs]

This is gonna spark a huge debate


I like Mark’s reviews but in this case I can personally hear the difference between DAPs even from same company (R6 pro ii - R8 II). I didn’t try m300 though

Maybe HiBy Digital should use this to advertise the M300

 

[MusicalDoc8]

Difference of course gets more subtle, but going out saying an M300 sounds like the R8II....i mean i had to finely A/B with my RS8 to actually get a good grasp of the differences, but that i a 2k vs 4k field, the top of the top.
This feels more like a sensationalist piece.

 

[gLer]

Difference of course gets more subtle, but going out saying an M300 sounds like the R8II....i mean i had to finely A/B with my RS8 to actually get a good grasp of the differences, but that i a 2k vs 4k field, the top of the top.
This feels more like a sensationalist piece.

It's excatly that. If you can't hear or appreciate the nuances from a high-end player, good for you, money saved. Just don't call yourself an audiophile

 

[twister6]

sorry, but to claim that M300 sounds the same as R8ii is either a joke or a clickbait video review. What's next, a M300's built in tiny speaker sounds as good as R8ii with Traillii Ti

I have both of these DAPs, and M300 is a great $199 source for use as a digital transport for usb-dac dongles. And that's about it. I mean, we all hear things differently, and I still get messages from people who hear their $5 iPhone dongle to sound as good as $3.5k flagship DAP they just purchase. But usually, those comments come from people who are not experienced in analyzing the sound...

.... and Hiby just addressed that on their social media:

 

[HarlanDraka]

sorry, but to claim that M300 sounds the same as R8ii is either a joke or a clickbait video review. What's next, a M300's built in tiny speaker sounds as good as R8ii with Traillii Ti

I have both of these DAPs, and M300 is a great $199 source for use as a digital transport for usb-dac dongles. And that's about it. I mean, we all hear things differently, and I still get messages from people who hear their $5 iPhone dongle to sound as good as $3.5k flagship DAP they just purchase. But usually, those comments come from people who are not experienced in analyzing the sound...

.... and Hiby just addressed that on their social media:

I actually found that video from this Hiby’s Facebook post. I was expecting some random guy to be the reviewer and not Mark from super review. That surprised me but, yes, everybody are entitled to their opinions and to hear or not differences

 

[MusicalDoc8]

I mean all in all, i guess it's a very cost-effective "deficit" not being able to hear the difference

 

[Aramaki]

sorry, but to claim that M300 sounds the same as R8ii is either a joke or a clickbait video review. What's next, a M300's built in tiny speaker sounds as good as R8ii with Traillii Ti

I have both of these DAPs, and M300 is a great $199 source for use as a digital transport for usb-dac dongles. And that's about it. I mean, we all hear things differently, and I still get messages from people who hear their $5 iPhone dongle to sound as good as $3.5k flagship DAP they just purchase. But usually, those comments come from people who are not experienced in analyzing the sound...

.... and Hiby just addressed that on their social media:

 

[Neweymatt]

This is gonna spark a huge debate


I like Mark’s reviews but in this case I can personally hear the difference between DAPs even from same company (R6 pro ii - R8 II). I didn’t try m300 though

No, I don’t think there is any debate about it really. While I haven’t heard All The DAPs, those i have heard sound different to each other in some way. I happened to have the RS6, R6P2, and R8ii all at the same time and it was very easy to pick the differences between them. I’d be extremely surprised if somehow the m300 magically sounds exactly the same as the R8ii.

Heck, R8ii can sound very different to itself depending how you configure Class A/AB, Turbo, MSEB, PEQ, Darwin filters and the other plugins.

One thing I find rather lazy about this video is despite the click-baity claim that a $200 DAP sounds the same as a $2k DAP, there are very few actual listening impressions mentioned, and no mention of what IEMs were used to draw that conclusion.

And one final flame from me: this kind of video ‘review’ exists for the type of people who cannot or will not spend more money on better gear to be able to cope with that.

 

[taylorjez]

Just leaving this here for anyone want to try to squeeze a little bit (or a whole lot) extra soundstage out of the R8 II or any HiBy R Android device:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t6aq...1.0.docx?rlkey=avz3mhfio04sm6bzkohquzobt&dl=0

Thank you! Am new to this hobby and have been reading lots of reviews and forums on Head-Fi. This has made a noticeable difference to my R6pro2, although I'm on this forum because I'm so tempted to get an R8ii!

 

[Aramaki]

No, I don’t think there is any debate about it really. While I haven’t heard All The DAPs, those i have heard sound different to each other in some way. I happened to have the RS6, R6P2, and R8ii all at the same time and it was very easy to pick the differences between them. I’d be extremely surprised if somehow the m300 magically sounds exactly the same as the R8ii.

Heck, R8ii can sound very different to itself depending how you configure Class A/AB, Turbo, MSEB, PEQ, Darwin filters and the other plugins.

One thing I find rather lazy about this video is despite the click-baity claim that a $200 DAP sounds the same as a $2k DAP, there are very few actual listening impressions mentioned, and no mention of what IEMs were used to draw that conclusion.

And one final flame from me: this kind of video ‘review’ exists for the type of people who cannot or will not spend more money on better gear to be able to cope with that.

Most of us "type of people" cannot afford to spend $$$ on audio gear, does not make us less of an "audiophile". Not sure if you are familiar with @MRSallee YT channel and his review style, every DAP review he has done in the past has always had the same result, he does not hear any differences between devices which is his own subjective opinion and we all have those in this hobby right?, lastly to call this review lazy is lazy of you to say, making review videos is not easy (as a former content creator myself), stay true to your opinions Mark.

 

[twister6]

Most of us "type of people" cannot afford to spend $$$ on audio gear, does not make us less of an "audiophile". Not sure if you are familiar with @MRSallee YT channel and his review style, every DAP review he has done in the past has always had the same result, he does not hear any differences between devices which is his own subjective opinion and we all have those in this hobby right?, lastly to call this review lazy is lazy of you to say, making review videos is not easy (as a former content creator myself), stay true to your opinions Mark.

The majority of manufacturers offer entry-level, mid-fi, and summit-fi models in different price categories for audiophiles to pick what they can afford. You don't have to spend a fortune to get a great-sounding DAP, and often the higher price doesn't mean a better product, plus, you have to consider diminishing returns. There are a few $500 quality DAPs and many cheaper high-quality usb-dac dongles that can turn your smartphone into a higher-end DAP.

Hiby makes fine DAPs in every price category. According to their website, now they created a sub-brand called Hiby Digital - a lifestyle-oriented company for Gen-Z non-audiophiles, with M300 being their first product, not even marketed for audiophiles, but rather a media player with snappy Android 13 and fast SoC, long battery life, a loudspeaker for friends to enjoy music together, and only 3.5mm headphone output. It is not marketed for audiophiles and it doesn't sound like a typical audiophile DAP (I have it next to me). It is a great digital source to pair up with your usb-dac dongle for streaming or local playback or to pair up with your TWS earphones. On the other hand, R8ii can go head-to-head with some of the $3k+ DAPs.

If you are on a very tight budget, Hiby Music (rather than Hiby Digital) just released an R4 dap for $249, intended for audiophiles on a budget. But you will be fooling yourself if you going to spend $200 on the M300 which is marketed by Hiby themselves as a Gen-Z device for non-audiophiles and will receive an audio player that going to rival their flagship that costs 10x more.

At the end of the day, reviewers and head-fiers are entitled to their own subjective opinions. That is why we come here, on Head-fi, to share our opinions. But please keep in mind, if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and even its "parents" call it a duck, then I would take with some grain of salt the opinion about it sounding like a swan when it still quacks like a duck

 

[HarlanDraka]

Most of us "type of people" cannot afford to spend $$$ on audio gear, does not make us less of an "audiophile". Not sure if you are familiar with @MRSallee YT channel and his review style, every DAP review he has done in the past has always had the same result, he does not hear any differences between devices which is his own subjective opinion and we all have those in this hobby right?, lastly to call this review lazy is lazy of you to say, making review videos is not easy (as a former content creator myself), stay true to your opinions Mark.

I don’t think that an audiophile needs to spend 3000$ to be called an audiophile. There are a lot of excellent and well tuned IEMs, headphones, Daps and dongles for less than 1000$ or even 500$ that will give you *almost* the same performance than more expensive gear. Then there are people willing to spend more money for that bit of more performance and that’s fine, it does not make them better than the audiophiles on a budget IMHO.

I already wrote that I like @MRSallee reviews as he is honest and does not hype products just for the sake of hyping like many other reviewers (paid, sponsored or else). If he does not hear the difference it’s fine, I’m 100% sure his review was not a clickbait. On the other hand, citing the gear used, testing conditions etc. would have been given a more “scientific” approach to the review. Also, using spotify it’s not really the best way to test high end gear (if streaming, better to use hi res streaming services such as Qobuz and Apple music). But I understand that most of @MRSallee viewers use Spotify so there’s that.

I also don’t think that what @Neweymatt wrote is wrong. There are a lot of people which cannot afford more expensive items which bash those items just because they cannot afford them. Just look at the comments to the video on YouTube. One guy even wrote he bought a oneplus 7 smartphone and it’s as good as a dedicated Dap. That’s fooling yourself, even if you have untrained ears and no experience in the audiophile realm. And a lot of people in the comments laughing at “people which spend so much money for something as good as a 200$ Dap” and thanking Mark for pointing this out.

Respect should go both ways

 

[MRSallee]

I've been fielding comments like these for years. "The difference is obvious / easy to hear." And yet so far, no one's taken me up on my request for a video demonstrating a convincing blind listening test.

I don't doubt that someone can hear a difference between these things, but anyone saying it's easy/obvious is 100% full of self delusion.

Buy what you want and be happy with it, enjoy the sonic differences you perceive, but the attempts to discredit me (or anyone else who comes to similar conclusions) on the basis of my music, my headphones, my budget, or my hearing -- you gotta do better than talk.

 

[Neweymatt]

Most of us "type of people" cannot afford to spend $$$ on audio gear, does not make us less of an "audiophile". Not sure if you are familiar with @MRSallee YT channel and his review style, every DAP review he has done in the past has always had the same result, he does not hear any differences between devices which is his own subjective opinion and we all have those in this hobby right?, lastly to call this review lazy is lazy of you to say, making review videos is not easy (as a former content creator myself), stay true to your opinions Mark.

Well, nowhere did I say that one had to spend lots of $$$ on gear to be an “audiophile”. I consider anyone who has a love of music an audiophile, regardless of what equipment they use. If a $200 DAP makes you happy, it’s certainly not my place to try to convince you that you shouldn’t be. But to claim that one DAP sounds the same as every DAP on the planet is delusional, and to do so in a video review on YouTube does this hobby a disservice.

While I don’t doubt the effort required to produce a YT video, by lazy I mean in the sense of the time and effort required to make comparisons with relevant other equipment, pairings with other relevant gear, and notes on tracks used when performing the review. Here’s a good example of something I find far more informative:
https://twister6.com/2024/02/05/hiby-r8-ii-r8ii/

I’m really not trying to pick a fight or anything. I know that when I started out very tentatively in this hobby 4 years ago, I was looking for only very modest improvements with lower end gear. If I’d actually believed someone who tried to convince me that “all DAPs sound the same” or “all amps sound the same” back then, I’d have missed out on hearing my music presented in the best way that i can afford. I just don’t want anyone else to make that kind of mistake is all.

 

[gLer]

Well, nowhere did I say that one had to spend lots of $$$ on gear to be an “audiophile”. I consider anyone who has a love of music an audiophile, regardless of what equipment they use. If a $200 DAP makes you happy, it’s certainly not my place to try to convince you that you shouldn’t be. But to claim that one DAP sounds the same as every DAP on the planet is delusional, and to do so in a video review on YouTube does this hobby a disservice.

While I don’t doubt the effort required to produce a YT video, by lazy I mean in the sense of the time and effort required to make comparisons with relevant other equipment, pairings with other relevant gear, and notes on tracks used when performing the review. Here’s a good example of something I find far more informative:
https://twister6.com/2024/02/05/hiby-r8-ii-r8ii/

I’m really not trying to pick a fight or anything. I know that when I started out very tentatively in this hobby 4 years ago, I was looking for only very modest improvements with lower end gear. If I’d actually believed someone who tried to convince me that “all DAPs sound the same” or “all amps sound the same” back then, I’d have missed out on hearing my music presented in the best way that i can afford. I just don’t want anyone else to make that kind of mistake is all.

As a corollary to this, there's also huge variance in how each of us perceives differences. For example, I can also make the case that for casual listening to streaming (especially compressed bitrate streaming like Spotify), I don't hear 'that much' difference between a certain level of IEM with different DAPs. But - and here's the thing - what I consider 'not that different', someone else could be hearing significant differences, because to them, even a small degree of difference is significant. The differences become much larger for me as I go up the IEM and music format quality chain, simply because higher-end gear makes smaller differences easier to hear, for me.

This is not a criticism or value judgement on anyone, by the way. We all like different things, and have different tolerances for...differences. What's 'good enough' for me, even at the high-end, might not be for someone else, and at there same time is serious overkill for others. That's why we have choices, and budgets, and there's a lid for every pot in this hobby. I do agree that a blanket statement like 'there's no difference between a $200 and $2000 DAP' is too broad strokes, but for someone with a more casual listening style or who doesn't fixate on minutae, the differences may indeed be insignificant to them.